Can anyone defend the Hummer?

In My Humble Opinion
41

[QUOTE=norinew]
We are contemplating moving to a big ol’ honkin’ piece o’ land in by God West Virginia. When we do, hubby wants a Hummer (not an H2 or H3, which he hates). However, if you move to the middle of nowhere, sometimes you need a vehicle that can get you around in extreme conditions. Also, we’re looking at tracts of land that boast free natural gas. So he wants a Hummer he can convert to run on that gas.

All that being said, they’re ugly as sin, and I told him he can only have one if he promises to keep it in the garage. :stuck_out_tongue:
[/QUOTE]

I grew up in a rural area in western Virginia (which oddly enough isn’t very different at all from West Virginia, that part of VA is like a totally different world from the northern part of the state) and have spent time in WV as well. Not having a vehicle that can seriously handle inclement weather conditions means for several months out of the year you’ll have to resign yourself to not going to work or the store when it decides to snow. Especially if you live in the mountains (although realistically all of WV is mountainous), the roads sometimes take days to get cleared off and are irregularly salted. A car just won’t cut it, you need a vehicle with clearance off the ground and 4WD (even then sometimes you aren’t going anywhere.)

42

[QUOTE=ralph124c]
There seems to be a lot of mis-directed anger at people who purchase/drive gas guzzling vehicles 9like the “Hummer”). What about people who inhabit 10,000 sq. ft. Mcmansions 9like Jonathan Edwards, the self sacrificing lawyer and champion of the poor)? Or people who have enormous power boats 9which burn 20-30 gallons/hour? Or politicians who (like Al Gore) who take private jets?
The market is distating people’s choice of vehicles. Why don’t we single out residential energy hogs as well?
I would never buy a Hummer-they are simple too big and wasteful for me. But if you want one-go ahead! I’m sure you can get a good deal on one now!
[/QUOTE]
I hate all those wasteful types, as I am trying my darndest to become more “green”.

But I totally hate Hummers more than the McMansions and private jets because they get in MY way. My little diesel Jetta (50 mpg to balance out some of these jerks) can’t see over them or around them if I happen to end up behind one. I can’t see around them at stop lights to see if I can make a turn safely. Without fail, they cannot park properly in a parking space, so that even my little Jetta can’t park next to one and be able to get both doors open.

But mostly, I hate them because they’re completely useless. There is no way anyone could justify that purchase to me. Private jet… sure, because they’re important people who need to get places quickly, and can’t fly traditionally because of paparazzi and fans or even potential assassins if you’re a politician. McMansions are fine if you’re a family of 7, or again, a celebrity who can’t get out to a public pool because of the paparazzi/fans/hassle, but like taking a swim.

If you need a 4WD or a car with a DVD player, there’s cars out there much more capable of off-road stuff, cars with a lot more options, and are smaller, better with gas mileage, cheaper, prettier, and… just “better”.

43

[QUOTE=DustyButt]
That’s what I say. What about Lambos or Ferraris? They get worse gas milage. Oh I forgot, they look pretty.
[/quote]

Lambos and Ferraris are also cars that have no equal. They’re finely tuned, highly engineered. They’re drivable artwork. They’re quick, nimble, agile. The Hummer is an uglier Suburban. Sure, Ferraris and Lambos are wasteful, but I can understand why someone would want it. I don’t understand why someone would pay so much extra for a rebadged Chevy.

That’s the thing… how do you expect me to ‘mind my own business’ when a huge, ugly, yellow Hummer with an ugly chrome grill is behind me, blocking my entire view in my rearview mirror, or in front of me so I can’t see a single thing? Or in the parking lot taking up 2 spots, or parked on the side of the road sticking out into the street? Your ugly Hummer is suddenly my problem. Get it off the road.

44

[QUOTE=Atrael]
Sure I can. As other posters have said, the hummer is no worse than a lot of other SUV’s on the market. You just notice them more because they stand out. Ya get pissed off at all the jags on the road? BMW? Mercedes?

I owned an H3 for a year. Gas mileage of the H3 was 14 city, 18 highway. Not great, but on par with just about any other large truck. The one I bought was about $36K out the door. I had gotten a great promotion to a new job that paid me significantly more money and I wanted to reward myself. So I wanted something nice to drive. I also live in an area subject to flooding, occasional ice and snow storms (with crap for plowing…they throw sand down) and the odd hurricane now and then. So I wanted a vehicle that could handle a fair amount of 4WD requirements when I needed them. I didn’t want a pick-up as I don’t need to haul anything, but as this was my daily driver (all 5 miles each way) I wanted comfort. So what else fit the bill? The H3 I owned had a very nice sound system, the DVD players in the back for the little one (or me) when we took long drives, was small enough for my wife to be able to drive (unlike the H2) and was comfortable for me. I needed something nice enough to take the odd boss out and have them like the car, but also within my general price range, as I wasn’t making that much money.

So before you start painting everyone that buys a hummer as a slack-jawed-drooling-small dicked-wealthy moron perhaps you should take a few moments to consider that there may be a reason that some of us buy them.
[/QUOTE]
The folks that live up the road bought an H3 a year ago. To replace her CJ7 that wasn’t big enough. The husband drives a 4x4 pickup. They have two dogs.

I suppose a Trailblazer would have worked just as well. Or some other large mid-sized SUV. They choose the H3. Said they got a good deal on it.

:shrug:

We‘ve had 24 feet of snow this year. Measured as it fell on my deck. A reasonably rugged 4x4 with a bit of ground clearance is not a bad idea.

I drive a Pathfinder. One of the reasons I bought it is because it IS built on a truck frame.

45

Well, living in the D.R, I can say, there are times where a Hummer would not be a bad idea at all.

I remember going to a friends mountain house in a place called Constanza. The road was absolutley awful. Bumpy as hell, and soon you reached a dirt road, full of rocks, mud, big holes. Our jeep, a pathfinder, slipped in the mud at least twice.

With a Hummer, we would not have nearly half as many problems, I assure you.

Does it waste huge amounts of gas? Yeah!

Do many people buy it just to be flashy? Of course.

Is it completley useless? Not at all. It can be a great vehicle depending on what you want to use it for.

46

I hate them.

I believe they should be built, sold and purchased like anything else. If there is demand, let them be built and sold.

I don’t care for expensive cars. If I were going to drop money like that, it’d be on a boat long before it’d be on a fat SUV that loafs along our miserable roads. Cars are transportation and there is very little opportunity to enjoy them.

I am not concerned with CO2 output. If we don’t burn the fossil fuels here in the US, some other less responsible country will burn them anyway, albeit without any concern to emmissions and pollutants.

47

[QUOTE=TheFury]
Well, living in the D.R, I can say, there are times where a Hummer would not be a bad idea at all.

I remember going to a friends mountain house in a place called Constanza. The road was absolutley awful. Bumpy as hell, and soon you reached a dirt road, full of rocks, mud, big holes. Our jeep, a pathfinder, slipped in the mud at least twice.

With a Hummer, we would not have nearly half as many problems, I assure you.

Does it waste huge amounts of gas? Yeah!

Do many people buy it just to be flashy? Of course.

Is it completley useless? Not at all. It can be a great vehicle depending on what you want to use it for.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t know what the D.R. is, but I assure you that there’s better cars than the H2 or H3 to navigate it (but probably not the original H1, which this thread is less about). My Jeep, an actual Jeep, would certainly do better at any off-roading or rough terrain than an H2 or H3. My Wrangler gets better mileage, is smaller, more agile, more capable and you could probably buy a similar one for about $5K. You could buy 15 of them for the price of an H2.

It’s completely useless. Like others in this thread have said, the H2 is just a Suburban with a different body (or was it a Tahoe?). There’s no reason to think that a Tahoe (or is it Suburban) would be better than your “jeep”, a Pathfinder.

48

Imprting water from france? Transporting H2o in heavy glass bottles wastes energy.
-Allow people to own mega cabin cruisers-they burn lots of fuel
-Keep subsidizing school busing programs-the kids can walk!
-subsidize famers to grow corn to make ethanol-which returns LESS energy than it consumes/
-subsidize giant farms in the midwest, which put energy-efficient dairy farms in the NE out of business?
The fact is, we waste energy in totally ridiculous ways. Why we should single out one of them makes no sense

49

[QUOTE=lokij]
I’ve always kinda wanted a used military Hummer… I have a weakness for military vehicles of all kinds, however.

Not that I would buy one before I get my Ferret!
[/QUOTE]
If you ever need to take four dozen of your closest friends off road, get an extreme bus.

50

[QUOTE=wasson]
I don’t know what the D.R. is, but I assure you that there’s better cars than the H2 or H3 to navigate it (but probably not the original H1, which this thread is less about). My Jeep, an actual Jeep, would certainly do better at any off-roading or rough terrain than an H2 or H3. My Wrangler gets better mileage, is smaller, more agile, more capable and you could probably buy a similar one for about $5K. You could buy 15 of them for the price of an H2.

It’s completely useless. Like others in this thread have said, the H2 is just a Suburban with a different body (or was it a Tahoe?). There’s no reason to think that a Tahoe (or is it Suburban) would be better than your “jeep”, a Pathfinder.
[/QUOTE]

Who said I was talking about the H2?

51

[QUOTE=TheFury]
Who said I was talking about the H2?
[/QUOTE]
I guess I assumed since 95% of the posts in this thread are about the H2 and H3, and that the H1 isn’t necessarily what I would refer to as “flashy”, as your post said. The H1 is a very utilitarian, military vehicle. Obviously built for a reason and easy to defend for military and off-road conditions. I don’t think anyone is asking to justify those.

52

I was going to post a similar thread, but for a different reason.

My cousin told me the other day, “Hummer’s are better for the environment than a Prius hybrid.”

I was surprised and said, “how so?”

“Well, how do you intend to dispose of that big 'ol electric motor with lead and all the chemicals that make up a Prius engine after the car is no longer working?”
I have to admit, I had never thought of that and I just assumed the electrical part of the engine was recyclable, but to be honest, I don’t really know. Anyone got any insight into this?

53

[QUOTE=wasson]
I guess I assumed since 95% of the posts in this thread are about the H2 and H3, and that the H1 isn’t necessarily what I would refer to as “flashy”, as your post said. The H1 is a very utilitarian, military vehicle. Obviously built for a reason and easy to defend for military and off-road conditions. I don’t think anyone is asking to justify those.
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That’s just the thing, I forgot to sat, my friends father is 2nd in command of the Dominican Military.

He could well get an H1 for the trip’s purpose, as he goes there every single weekend.

54

Ok, so basically this thread isn’t really looking for a discussion about hummers but rather just looking to bash hummer owners, and allow like-minded dopers yet another place to proclaim their righteous indignation? Glad I took the time to respond as a hummer owner to explain why it was a good choice for me. Ya’ll just continue on beating that dead horse a bit more to make yourselves feel superior.

55

[QUOTE=Lute Skywatcher]
If you ever need to take four dozen of your closest friends off road, get an extreme bus.
[/QUOTE]

heh, Funny, but in all likelyhood way way out of my price range. Also, I don’t think I HAVE 4 dozen friends. For my meager needs, the troop transport of choice would be the Pinzgauer.

One dozen is more than enough for me.

56

[QUOTE=wasson]
Lambos and Ferraris are also cars that have no equal. They’re finely tuned, highly engineered. They’re drivable artwork. They’re quick, nimble, agile. The Hummer is an uglier Suburban. Sure, Ferraris and Lambos are wasteful, but I can understand why someone would want it. I don’t understand why someone would pay so much extra for a rebadged Chevy.

That’s the thing… how do you expect me to ‘mind my own business’ when a huge, ugly, yellow Hummer with an ugly chrome grill is behind me, blocking my entire view in my rearview mirror, or in front of me so I can’t see a single thing? Or in the parking lot taking up 2 spots, or parked on the side of the road sticking out into the street? Your ugly Hummer is suddenly my problem. Get it off the road.
[/QUOTE]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder! A person should buy a Hummer because it’s their choice! What are you the Aesthetics Sherriff???

Hey… It’s your choice to drive a diesel VW that can’t accelerate away from or pass a Hummer that’s blocking your view. Why should your car’s inability to perform automatically turn the other guy into an A-hole???

And, for the record I’ve been cut-off, and infringed upon by more minivan drivers than Hummer drivers and Ford Crustang drivers combined. So, you’re totally seeing what you want to see when you think of Hummer owners as A-holes.

I don’t have a Hummer but I drive a car with a large engine. If I could buy a car that produced comparable power and was electric for a similar price I would. It wouldn’t even be a contest. Why is the technology taking so long? Why didn’t we start the push back in the 70’s when we were slammed by big oil then? Just think of how far ahead we’d be now!

Like I said before… let’s look at the disease, and not the symptom.

57

[QUOTE=Atrael]
Ok, so basically this thread isn’t really looking for a discussion about hummers but rather just looking to bash hummer owners, and allow like-minded dopers yet another place to proclaim their righteous indignation? Glad I took the time to respond as a hummer owner to explain why it was a good choice for me. Ya’ll just continue on beating that dead horse a bit more to make yourselves feel superior.
[/QUOTE]
Fine fine, I’ll reply to you directly. Please note that I did type out a reply to you before, but deleted it since it seemed rude. But here we go.

$36K will buy a really, super nice vehicle. You needed a nice, 4WD vehicle that had a DVD player for the kids. “Small” also seemed to be one of your priorities, so that the wife could drive it.

I’m not going to do a ton of research for you to make your decision seem even more silly, but I will say that there are plenty of AWL minivans out there with DVD players in the backseat that are a whole lot less expensive, less flashy, and make more sense than your purchase. If you’re dead-set against a minivan (and why would you be, if not for the “flash” factor that a Hummer supplies), a quick check of Jeep’s website reveals smaller, 4WD SUVs that are less expensive, less ugly, less obtrusive, and certainly more solidly built and capable of some moderate rough weather/off roading.

Don’t forget that the H3 was built on a Colorado’s frame. The Colorado starts off at $14,000, so you could have bought one of those for “bad days” and spent the other $20,000 on a nice used BWM 3 series or something. Myself… I spent about $19,000 on a really nice Diesel Jetta that gets tons of compliments as well as about 50 mpg, but I’ve also got a Wrangler sitting in my garage for the occassional trips around town with the top off, and for the rare times in Illinois that we get terrible snows and my Jetta isn’t appropriate. Seems like a good, economically and ecologically healthy compromise to me. There’s no reason to own the H3 except the “flash” factor… Look at me, I drive a HUMMER! You’re gonna have to do better than that to justify that purchase to me (and, I assume, the rest of the Dopers).

58

wasson, thank you for actually replying to some points and raising others. Have a meeting for the next couple of hours but I will get back and reply to your points.

59

[QUOTE=Philster]
<snip>..Cars are transportation and there is very little opportunity to enjoy them.<snip>
[/QUOTE]
Ehh.. Yes and no. As someone that used to commute in a soft top CJ7 over the continental divide at 6am, I must say that the trip in my Pathfinder is much more enjoyable.

60

Ok, back from meeting hell. So let’s see if I can explain.

Yes, I could get a mini-van for less than that. The wife currently drives a mini-van, so adding a second wouldn’t really get us anything. AWD isn’t even close to 4WD, so it wouldn’t help at all for those situations where the minivan won’t go. The main intersection that my wife would take to and from work floods to mid thigh level at least once or twice a year. Unfortunatly the local school system doesn’t see the wisdom of cancelling school before those roads flood. The H3 can drive through 24 inches of water…I know I’ve driven through at least that. No minivan is going to do that…unless you’re lucky.

Taking a look at the Colorado from GMC, putting in all the options I had in my H3 (that they offered), I come out at an MSRP of $29K. For a truck with an extended cab basically. I didn’t want a truck…I wanted something with 4 doors that you could actually get in and sit comfortably. A Jeep Wrangler with (again most) of the same options is around $30K…and that is with the exposed bed. You could go either way on that…sometimes it’s nice to have a bed that you can put longer stuff in or stack higher and tie down, other times it’s nice to be able to put things in the back out of the weather. So that’s not really that large a savings.

So rather I should get 2 cheaper vehicles instead of one more expensive one? So that would put my grand total at 3 vehicles for my 2 car driveway. I notice that you mention getting a used BMW. It’s just a personal choice, but I don’t want to buy a used vehicle again. I’ve usually ended up having more problems than the money I save on them. What if I wanted a new BMW instead so I had that nifty long term warrenty? So now I have one new expensive car and one cheaper car, plus the mini-van. So I’m paying more in insurance and upkeep. Taking a look at the BMW’s on ebay (can’t get to the BMW site), I see that anything from 2004 upwards (the oldest I’d go) seem to be around a minimum of $25K. Most are much more than that…so I’m not really saving any money.

And I notice size and obstruction seems to come up a lot. Have you ever been in an H3? My H3 was much smaller than most of the full sized trucks I’d park next to. Not as tall either. Sure it has a distince look…but then so did my Aztek that I had before…everyone thought it was butt ugly…I didn’t care, I liked the car. My H3 was a bit higher than my wife’s Santa Fe (car before the mini-van) but about the same length (2 inches longer), and a whopping 10 inches wider. So it’s not that much bigger than your standard SUV.

So your arguments really aren’t very good. Except that you think someone should buy a cheaper vehicle. You spent $19K on a Jetta? Why didn’t you get a cheaper honda civic? They get about 45 mpg or you could have spend a measly $3K more and gotten a hybrid with 51mpg. And are you more concerned with purely using less gas? Or less impact to the environment? I mean…diesel isn’t really that clean. This is far from an authorative site, and normally I’d research more, but this (warning PDF) is the best I could find. Looks to me like the Jetta they list there has a larger environmental impact than the hybrids. So if you’re looking to save the planet, time to trade in for something better…you’re not getting the best gas milage or producing the smallest emmisions you can.

Or maybe it’s size that is most important? There are a lot of cars smaller than a Jetta…perhaps a VW bug would give you the smallest road visibility impact?
We can argue details back and forth all day. But I guess what irritates me is the blanket assumption that everyone that buys a hummer is going for the “ooo look at me” aspect. I know that for me personally, that had nothing to do with my decision. The H3 fit my desires in a new vehicle. Were there other SUV or 4WD vehicles that I could have bought? Sure…but they wouldn’t have cost that much less, been much smaller, or gotten better gas milage. So what would have been the point? So that I could drive without worrying what people thought about me? Like I give a shit. Just about anything any person does can be scorned by someone else. Every decision has someone with an opposing position.

The title of the thread was “Can anyone defend the Hummer?” to which I replied that yes, I could defend my decision to buy an H3. I can explain what I was looking for at the time and why an H3 fit my needs and desires. Can I argue that there aren’t any other smaller, cheaper, more environmentally friendly, or better looking vehicles that a person can choose to buy? Of course not…but every single argument that you can bring up (aside from the “but it’s a hummer!”) can be said of any large truck or real 4WD SUV.