Can subtle glances at breastas be considered a compliment?

In My Humble Opinion
41

Ok, well, I think I’ve already said what I mean to say about this, but I’ll say it again: try not to do it or at least try not to get caught.

Naturally, I will try to get over it. Thanks for letting me know I should.

You have brought up the point that this is a sexual signal that has been ingrained for many years. It is, of course, a correct statement. All I’m saying is that it takes a lot of grace to live with and work around our basic impulses, and it is grace that sets us apart from our primate urges. But you can flame me if you like.

42

Noting the oh-so-interesting diversity of this site, I’m not about to speak for anyone else but yes, revtim, I certainly think the desire to at some point initiate an admiring, cursory sweep appraising the physical characteristics of a member of the opposite sex is COMPLETELY natural.

I also would like to think that my simian natures are advanced enough and my social awareness is refined enough that I won’t perform this without respect for her feelings and comfort level. I don’t leer or gawk and actually have an extremely wonderful pair of breasts waiting for me at home that, btw, I married for their owner’s lovely mind and wit. I just hope that women react to the glance as all it is, an innocent admiration. And I hope that all the women I glanced at when I was single took it as all it was, a profound desire to see them naked.

43

Bick -

I’m not trying to argue on behalf of harassment law. I’m just telling you how it works. IANAL, but I’m doing some pretty intensive work right now, helping to defend my day-job employer from a harassment claim. The harasser, “Billy Bob”, confined his actions to looks and non-verbal behavior. The object of his attentions, “Peggy Sue”, didn’t like it. She’s suing both the company and Billy. Billy got fired and is on his own as far as legal defense; we would have backed him up, but he did indeed do what she claimed. And she has a pile of witnesses.

Sure, some women have been overreacting. By the same token, some men have been behaving like frat boys. The end result is the expectation of different behavior at work. Some uncontrolled yutzes peed in the pool, and now we all have new rules to follow. Whether you think the laws are stupid or not, they do exist.

As for me personally, “puritanical” is about the least likely word to describe me. I probably would find “the flick” more offensive at work, though. In a bar, if some guy does that and he gives me the willies, I can avoid him, or at the worst, have a quiet word with the bouncer. At the office, I have to see the guy every damn day. I may even have to take orders from him. And that can be pretty uncomfortable. I save the cleavage for after hours and weekends, just to avoid inviting such situations.

44

Since all urges are not created equal, this point is moot.

**

Sorry, but “what you expect” is not necessarily “what is reasonable and what will happen”. Since this is a matter of opinion, I don’t expect either one of us will be able to change opinion.

Oh, and the name is Revtim, not REVTIME.

45

Revtim, your employer does not get to decide what is harassment and what is not. The defining characteristic is whether the harassed party thinks they have been harassed, or are subjected to a hostile work environment. And I must say I have a hard time believing that your employer’s written policy says it’s OK to check out co-worker’s boobs.

By the way, it works both ways and for all possible sexual orientations. If you catch one of the girls staring at your ass, feel free to file suit.

46

seawitch: Okay, that makes some sense; dealing with a serial leerer every day could get to be quite a drag.

Let me state that part of my bias in this matter stems from personal experience—here in Tucson, the weather is hot and the clothes are casual. And at my place of employment, I’ve seen a whole lot of women come through the doors wearing skin-tight cotton-ribbed tees or sun dresses with plunging necklines. I’ve seen erect nipples poking happily through flimsy attire. I’ve seen a number of beyond-D-cup women showing at least a B-cup’s worth of cleavage. So I find it hard to believe that women in the aggregate are doing their damnedest to keep us naughty boys from looking at their chests. It just ain’t happenin’ here in the Ol’ Pueblo.

Beyond all that, I still don’t agree with the “somebody peed in the pool” analogy. It’s more like, some radical feminist lawyers guilt-tripped America into enacting ridiculously unfair harassment policies. No, I don’t think boob-grabbing should be permitted in the workplace, and obviously verbal harassment can be quite demeaning. But any woman who honestly feels victimized simply because some guy looked at her tits for a split second has got to have some deep-seated self-worth issues. As women are so fond of saying to men, “they’re just boobs.”

47

This is a tricky question because it really depends on the person. I, personally, kind of like it when I see them glancing (key word) at my chest. However, there are some guys I know that do not make eye contact with me at all and blatently stare at my breasts, even as they are talking to me and it is very offensive. Nothing wrong with a peek though.

48

I’m prety sure this is not correct. I think there is some sort of “reasonable person” standard which governs this.

49

Yep, the claimant needs to be showing some standard of reasonableness; but the courts decide what is or is not reasonable. What I was trying to convey is that it isn’t up to an individual employer to make those determinations.

Bick - FWIW, the first sexual harassment case I was ever involved with was a guy who sued the store he worked in because the staff told each other dirty jokes, and the (female) manager didn’t put a stop to it. He was deeply religious, and found the jokes offensive. I really don’t think it’s a strictly feminist issue.

This seems to be one of those conversations where one of the SDMB’s learned J.D.'s would come in handy. Is there a lawyer in the house? Failing that, a well-versed HR Manager?

50

I don’t mind it when someone sneaks a peek at the kittens…my rule of thumb is, if I’m dressed such that they’re the first thing I notice when I look in the mirror, then everyone is going to notice them too. Sometimes they get noticed on other occasions, which surprises but does not offend me. I always thought the impulse behind “the flick” was appreciation rather than humiliation, but what do I know?
It does kind of bother me at work, because I’m always afraid that the the guy is thinking “Well, I just saw both reasons why they hired her”, but I think that has to do more with my anxiety about my job performance than anything that the guy is actually thinking. Also a lot of the guys at work are like my dad’s age & it creeps me out vaguely to be checked out by someone who reminds me of my dad.

51

Regarding breasts being a “sexual signal”…I got mine when I was eleven. Men started leering at me, coincidentally, at the same time. They are not a sexual signal!! They just grow there!

On the other hand, I agree that if a woman is misguided enough to wear “sexy” clothing to work, she shouldn’t feel outraged if men look.

52

i possess a large chest.

there you go, i’ll admit it.

lots of women say they would like to havemy breasts…but they
“couldn’t handle the hassle.”

“what hassle?” i say

" you know, guys like him (pointing) and him(more pointing)"

the thing is…

that’s the first i know of it.

i’m sublimely unaware of all the tit-gazers.

i don’t notice, therefore i could care less.

however, if someone is being so obvious i find it offensive (very, very rare) i just look at their crotch and make unimpressed faces.
usually works.

53

I’ve never thought it was a “compliment” to do the “eye flick” – the idea of it as a compliment never even crossed my mind. Hell, I was 25 before I stopped getting embarrased when an attractive woman noticed me looking at her.

So I look women in the eye. There are some occasions (nipplage, usually) where it may be a little more difficult to keep the eyes up, but even then, I’ll wait until she’s distracted to get a look at her tits.

One of our IS guys is a notorious anal sphincter of a person, and won’t help most people with advice on using their computers or fixing preferences, etc. But if you’re an attractive woman with a nice set of boobs, he’ll stand right by your shoulder and give you hours of advice on how to operate your computer. I think that’s completely reprehensible.

On the other side of the coin, I have been hit on more than once by women in the workplace who had previously caught me looking at them, but in both occasions she was across the room, I was supposed to be having a conversation with someone else, not looking at her legs. :slight_smile:

And I had one close associate that I had to fight off a crush for. (I don’t think I succeeded, though. I just locked it up in a little cage.) She was smart, pretty, and friendly, but married. (Damn! They always are.) She had nice little breasts with perky nips and frequently went braless. We had a fairly open and frank friendship inside and outside of the office, but once she caught me looking at her nipples (hard not to that afternoon) and it embarrased both of us. (Well, me anyway.) Even though we’d talked about breasts and nipples that day at lunch.

Compliment? Only if you’re romantically involved, and then you better make sure damn well the occasion is correct. It seldom is in a work environment.

54

I honestly believe that chicks like good looking guys looking at thier breasts, as long as they dont ogle at them. Now, unattractive men had better not even THINK about sneaking a peak! No, that would be crude at minimun,or sexual harrassment at worst!

55

My, you’re a sassy newbie, GENE STONER. Sassy!!

56

Like a few of my fellow XX Dopers, I have large breasts. Some women - as well as a few men who knew I wasn’t going to summarily smack them - have said to me, “I bet you get gawked because of your breasts”. Actually, I haven’t generally encountered staring - at least, not at my tits. The most obvious incident happened when I was a young teen.

I went to sleepaway camp when I was 13, we were a big, happy family. One day while a bunch of campers and counselors were hanging out, a male counselor asked me how old I was. When I told him, he didn’t believe me. It took a bit of convincing. When I said, “Okay, you think what you want”, he figured out that I wasn’t messing with him. What were his next words? “You have big tits for a thirteen year old!”, said he. I thought that was funny, not lascivious. He didn’t say it with a lusting tone, just an incredulous one. :slight_smile:

57

As a guy, I don’t care if I get caught looking when there’s a low neckline and it’s obvious she is showing off her cleavage. What do you expect? Some women dress a certain way where you know they want you to look. Others don’t.

Let me ask this-Do women check out a guy’s package and wonder if he’s not wearing underwear? Do you then try to spot the wanker and size it up?

58

You know, I have a solution for chics who get pissed when men notice their breasts: Let’s just cut them off. How would that be? Then you wouldn’t have to worry about men noticing your breasts, because they’d be in a bio-hazard bin somewhere, or incinerated.
Sounds like a great idea!

Men notice breast for two reasons:

  1. they’re men
  2. they’re alive

Heck, even my gay (I can still say “gay” here right? As long as I’m referring to a man who likes to have sex with other men, it’s okay, right? I’m not using it as an insult, I mean the guys are really, actually, in fact, and in all other ways, gay.) friends tend to appreciate the beauty in a well-rounded and nicely displayed bosum.

What’s the damage, ladies? Why are you so uptight? You have tits, they look nice. I like to look at nice things. Out of respect and common courtesy I won’t goggle at and drool over your fun bags, but if you expect me to stare you in the eye like some sort of neurotic, you’re in for a big fuckin’ surprise.

What’s the big deal? Are you going to say something lame like “Well, women don’t look at guys like that!”
A) Yes, they do.
B) We just don’t get all worked up over it
C) if we even notice, because y’all are sly about it.

Anyway, let it go. Please. This “sexual harassment” shit has gone too far, just like PC, just like welfare, just like affirmative action.
Like everything else in this coutry that started out with the best of intentions, it has been overdone and convoluted to the point that it’s nothing but a mockery or what it should be, and a royal pain the ass.

So please, pretty please, let it go.

Or, we can compromise:
I’ll stop looking at breasts when the 40-year-old divorcee with a dent where the Newport that’s grafted to her lip was removed for her weekly workout stops wearing enough perfume to kill a musk-ox while she’s hacking away through an issue of Cosmo one the bike next to me at the Gym, all the while smiling and grating at me about how we should go out or some shit like that.

59

Not while we can still legislate fear into the hearts of people with a sex drive everywhere! After all, how could anyone simultaneously think someone is attractive AND intelligent? Besides that, then sex therapists and whoever manufactures Viagra would simply be out of business.

I hate maintaining solid eye contact during a longish conversation… I feel an overwhelming need to look somewhere. Maybe someday I can be sued for passing breasts on my way down to shoes…
or better yet, I can be accused of creating a hostile work environment due to a foot fetish!

[sup]note: sarcasm, hyperbole, and a smattering of truth was included in this post. I make no claims as to which is which, nor do I expect the reader to be able to figure out which is which. Especially since we can be assured that when the eyes wander the mind is sure to follow, and since reading involves quite a bit of eye movement the mind can never comprehend anything typed above[/sup]

60

I don’t care if guys look. I do think of it as a compliment at best, or an automatic response at worst.

I think that when they finally stop looking is when I’ll be insulted.

(Now if somebody grabbed one of 'em and tried to twist my nipple off… well, unless I knew him, he’d have some explaining to do!)