Sua, do you have popsicles that you are not sharing??
Don’t lie to us…
I agree.
My cat would be thoroughly confused trying to understand elections. I have always thought the true brillance of the founding fathers came out when they withheld the vote from felines everywhere.
MAN!!! I thought you and I were never going to agree on anything.
I guess I was wrong.
[sub]Between you and me, you might want to avoid that word[/sub]
Call me Crazy [sub]sorry[/sub] but I didn’t say anything funny. If you want to debate me, then please use your own thoughts. I have never been succesfully refuted, so I dare you to try. I am merely trying to use an art form called unrestricted[sub]unmedicated[/sub] thinking to project possible solution to the ills we face.
You should hear my thoughts on alternative sewer systems.
While I have really enjoyed my time on this board, it is often difficult. I mean, in a lot of threads, in order to present my POV and rebut opposing positions, I have to think. In this thread, it’s like shooting fish in a barrel.
:yawn: Mr. Short-Term Memory, you were referring to the Iran-Iraq war when you went on your anti-arms suppliers tirade. I pointed out that U.S. arms contractors are prohibited from selling arms to either nation. No, it’s not deep thinking - it’s a simple statement of fact.
:giggle: They “don’t count” because ** you were talking about how our support of Israel has riled up the Arabs.** As Iranians aren’t Arabs, they are not an Arab enemy of us, or of Israel.
:snort: Thanks for reminding me. I haven’t bothered the Administrators to change my title from “member” to “Almighty Arbiter of Debates” in a couple of weeks. I’ll get right on it.
:sigh: I remind you, son, that this is your “debate”. You say things; I rebut them. If you want to extend your allegations about the enemies of the United States to include non-Arabs, I suggest you ask a Moderator to edit your previous posts. But from now on, we will include the Iranians.
:bwa-ha-ha: Gee, I always thought my arrogance was astounding in more than just this one instance. BTW, even though I noted that Iranians aren’t Arabs, I did explain to you the basis of their animosity towards America. Perhaps you didn’t read that, or you just “forgot”.
:tee-hee: Um, they are there protecting the oil fields of our Arab “enemies”. The Fifth Navy is based in Bahrain, which is in the Persian Gulf, separated by the Arabian Peninsula from Israel. American ground and air troops are stationed in Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and Turkey, not Israel. Oh, I’m not being fair. I’m providing you with facts. My bad.
:I …can’t… breathe… Laughing…too…hard: **Imagine to exist? Please note above stationing of troops in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Bahrain.
This one, unfortunately, I can’t laugh about. Son, there are other books out there beside The Protocol of the Elders of Zion. Try reading one.
True, I have gotten violently emotional about this thread. Milk came out of my nose from laughing too hard.
Solution to what? You haven’t accurately stated the problem yet.
Pot, meet kettle. I think a good definition of “anti-intellectualism” is refusal to acknowledge or rely on facts, and instead insisting on speaking out of one’s ass. Hmm, anyone on this thread doing that?
Son, I haven’t presented you with my position on Israel’s right to exist, or on whether the U.S. should be allied with Israel. I haven’t had the opportunity, because I’m trying to get you to acknowledge the facts before I start debating with you about the issue. For all you know, I agree that Israel has no right to exist. I insist that, whether or not I agree with someone on an issue, the agreement or disagreement is based in fact, not anti-intellectual ravings.
:groan: The idea was “invented” by a European Jew in the late 1800’s. The name escapes me at the moment; I’ll post back soon with his name.
I would accuse you also of circular logic, but that would imply that you have exhibited any logic. Again, not a fact, so I will not assert it.
I’d daresay that not everyone in this thread supports U.S. policy towards Israel. Or in the Middle East in general. The U.S. has made a great many blunders. We can talk about Iran-Iraq wars, the plight of the Palestinians and the violence and the ups and downs of the supposed peace process. We get that. We can debate that if you want. We can even debate the question “Why is Israel really our ally? Is it just because of the powerful Jewish lobby in America?” and I think you’d find a diversity of viewpoints from posters here. No one says that the status quo is a perfect situation, or even close to ideal.
But you are not choosing to debate any of those issues. You are proposing, nay, saying we have a moral obligation to forcibly move a sovereign state that is quite happy where it is to bring oil prices down and reduce U.S. foreign aid to the region. You are arguing this based on erroneous assumptions about emigration - numbers of emigres, restrictions on emigration, assumptions on where people you’ve never met who have chosen to live in Israel would “rather” live.
Because we do not agree with your proposed solutions does not mean that we are fundamentalist Christians, tools of the powerful American Jewish Lobby, or anti-intellectuals. We do, however, look smashing in this season’s new line of tinfoil hats.
And finally, a spelling pet peeve - sing with me now:
“O come, O come Emmanuel…and ransom captive Israel.”
IsrAel. IsrAel. Not Is-real. Thank you. Thank you all.
Comment on the link I provided F2, she gracefully gave me a “gimme” on it, whatever that is, but that’s slightly lame because she thought she could divert the entire thread with some figure I read in a magazine that was good enough for their fact checkers. Yeah, I wish she read more too. I’ll tell you what, you can have her “gimme” on me.
Good night, Sua. You’ve all been great - well, all except one of you - and it’s been a pleasure following this thread. And I’m not saying that because I believe you all to be great supporters of the State of Israel; I respect whatever opinions you may have, including those opposing to my own. No, I enjoyed this thread because everybody (minus one) has displayed intelligence, calmness, patience and an open mind. On the other hand, though, there are a few people here I’ll have a hard time thinking nasty thoughts about from here on, and that sucks.
As for you, Bunnyman - I’m an Israeli, temporarily residing in New York. If you have any rational, intelligent questions and opinions to present to me, I’ll be happy to respond; otherwise, ata yachol limtzotz li, ya chatichat chara.
So…It’s all the fault of them Jews runnin Washington, and the media. I seem to remember a bunch of bald kids wearin oxblood docs and braces distributing info on that sort of thing over in Dallas…called it the ZOG or some such thing. Is that what were talking about here?
Coming right up, dearie! I’ll be dealing with ONLY concrete facts here, also.
1) Canadian Immigration Issues
http://www.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de/~uu7s/aufsatz3.htmp lists factors looked at when an immigrant (not a refugee) wants to enter Canada. Some factors include occupation, education, knowledge of french and english and arranged employment. Money and holdings figures nowhere.
Anecdotal evidence also: I live in Canada and my family has supported two immigrants from the Phillipines who worked for us for years. They were not millionaires, but are now Canadian citizens. Canada is also a very multicultural nation due to the pure VOLUME of immigrants living here.
It is now approximately 13 hours following the OP, and I can safely assume that most of this debate has been during American waking hours. What amazes me is the credence given this view in terms of the fact that the premise in the proposal is worthy of debate. But I as a Canadian shouldn’t be surprised. If you Americans could just see yourselves discussing the proposal of dismantling a sovereign state you might have an inkling as to why you are regarded the world over as the most arrogant people in the world. What gives you the right? As a Canadian who has travelled abroad and talked to other Canadians who have travelled abroad as well we often are taken for Americans. When we explain we are from Canada, invariably we are treated in a friendlier manner. That is why many of us display the red maple leaf when travelling abroad.
Now I believe that America has done an admirable job in world affairs by and large, and I think Americans are a wonderful people myself, But don’t even think about messing around with the sovereignty of another nation.
Not too bad, actually. It sure beats living on the kibbutz, riding my camel home from tank factory so I can get my 11 kids to evening prayers on time. Thank G-d I managed to save up enough black market dollars to get out of that hellhole.
ONE poster is thinking about dismantling the sovereignty of a state. Many other posters are telling him why this is stupid and wrong. Like you, I’m assuming most of the posters in this thread are American. So I fail to see where your anti-American and “Yay! Canada!” generalizations come in. One bad poster. Many good posters.
Yeah, the U.S. can be bullying and wrong-headed about its attitude towards other nations. There was an article on the front page of yesterday’s Wall Street Journal about how we push open markets on others but protect our own industries and how we play the paranoid weakling in diplomacy. And it sucks - it’s a mockery of free trade. It made me angry. I’m going to write a letter to my elected officials.
But there is a thread in the Pit where you can take your superiority complex and your generalizations and your “lack of surprise” that we would debate this issue.
ok bunnybumper, I’ll give you one chance to clear this up for me. Fezzini said go back to the beginning, so here I am, back at the beginning.
You don’t believe that Israel has the right to be a country. OK, fine. But do you believe that their sole claim to land is based upon the word of a 3000 year old document? Do you believe that the US would accept that as a valid reason? Do you discount ALL the evidence stated in this thread that shows why Israel is, in fact, a country?
You tell us we need to move everyone in Israel. How? Giant forklifts? Israel goes to sleep one night and wakes up in the morning, looks outside at the snow and realizes they’re now in the Yukon? We would have to start a war. This has nothing to do with the bible, but it will end in Armageddon. That I can assure you. We tell Jews to move, they resist, we must use force, they resist with force, war breaks out, all our allies desert us, enemies of Israel support us but, here’s the key, listen closely because there WILL be a quiz in the next section, having common enemies does not mean you’re on the same side. Look at Russia in W.W.II. Wait, too complicated. OK, think about how that bulldog and Tweetybird sometimes tag teamed Sylvester. Anyway, everyone goes to war and we all die. Why? Because we wanted our WD-40 to cost .01 less per quart. Hey, speaking of oil…
I said there would be a quiz. Here it is. one question:
Getting rid of Israel would make oil prices:
a) go higher
b) lower
c) stay the same
d) Indeterminate. Because Israel being in existence doesn’t influence how much OPEC charges for oil and our being allies with some of the OPEC nations won’t matter once Israel is no longer in existence.
e) I like eggs
Moving on. You assume that most people, if given the choice and the money, would move out of Israel. Why? All day long proof has been given as to why this isn’t true and you’ve ignored every single argument. Not only ignored it, but willingly stated you haven’t the foggiest clue as to why anyone would move to Israel in the first place. It would be nice to know. Might I help? Well, just for starters, it’s the same reason you’re now posting in the electroshock ward of the JDT mental facility: to be with your own kind.
Oh, and the figures your getting on immigration to the US and Canada, flawed as they may be in numbers, are also flawed in logic. Imagine that! Those people aren’t all emigrating from Israel. They aren’t escaping Israel. They were escaping Europe during and after the war. You know…where if they stuck around they would have DIED! After the war, they didn’t look too kindly on the place that tried to kill them.
Speaking of trying not taking kindly to people trying to kill them, do you really think Jews are going to want to come to the US after the US forcibly removes them from their homes? Especially when it’s so they can go live in apartments built by the Arabs.
Can you answer any of these questions? Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck. Why am I wasting the time? You won’t respond. You won’t care. I had better things to do tonight than read this thread. Fighting ignorance is one thing, but I feel that every key I press to respond to you just shoves a modem’s phone line further up your nose in a home lobotomy. The more we type the stupider you get. I’m done.
One poster (okay, it was me) suggested you started a thread about how to promote Middle East peace, if that was the debate you wanted.
You’ve insted decided to put forward a silly notion and it’s been carefully explained to you why it’s silly.
If you ask (and you did) “Can we afford not to dismantle Israel?”, you shouldn’t get your knickers in a knot when people disagree with you. Especially when these people then demonstrate a considerably deeper knowledge of the politics in the region (Spiny tips his hat towards SuaSponte) than you have.
And will you stop telling everyone how “Christian” they are ? Thanks.
I’m not going to ask you - again - to back up your statements, as you’re obviously not going to.
Second christian checking in here.
I’m not up on Israel; how are we “funding” them?
nd is this a bad thing?
Why?
The way I understand it, its their land, originally promised to them by God.
Chrsitians in America are told to support them for this reason.
Dismantle? You want to bomb them or something?
Or move them out first (maybe to Alaska) before that?
