Can we filter out all the 'nice guy' posts?

I have the most pessimistic theory about this. Ever.

It goes like this: There are very few intrinsically “nice” people. Basically, from birth on up, we test the world around us to see how big of an asshole we can get away with being. The world lets us know with each trial by either caving in or delivering the timely bitchslap. Those who grow up to be “assholes” are so because they can get away with it most of the time. Those who grow up to be nice have had the passive approach beaten into them.

Assholes get away with being assholes because they either have something others want, which forces people to tolerate them, or they’re so overpowering they steamroll all in their path. Typically, these folks have looks, charm, and power. These are all traits that tend to pin the human attract-o-meter, and women (not to single them out) are often all-too-willing to look past certain character flaws to capture those endowed with these “star qualities”. So, to the winners of the genetic and socioeconomic crap-shoot go the spoils, regardless of their capacity for compassion. Since these folks suffer little penalty for overbearing assertion, they have little incentive to treat others with the respect they demand for themselves, and hence typically don’t. Are we not often astonished by those whose beauty and wealth is only surpassed by their congeniality?

Why are most folks nice? Because they have to be. To navigate the world as painlessly as possible, they adapt a conciliatory stance in most instances rather than suffer the injuries of confrontation and likely defeat. They project an outward civility, but are often seething internally due to a lifetime of absorbing various blows to their self-esteem, the various indignities which remind them of their mediocrity, even inadequacy. To be nice is the healthiest coping mechanism, as the alternative is a perpetual state of impotent rage.

Nice guys “win” as the last resort of the abused, or the only alternative to the other milquetoasts. They know they’re sloppy seconds, and resent it; but it’s a futile resentment. If the world were fair, if human beings intrinsically good, their humane approach to life (which, in most cases, they did not choose themselves) would be its own reward. It isn’t. Those who usually get what they want are so successful because they’re fundamentally able to be calculatedly ruthless when the opportunity presents itself. They abuse with the consent of the abused, because, paradoxically, they’re admired for it. The nice can’t pull this off.

Is it “better” to be nice or not? Value judgements aren’t terribly relevant when one has little choice in the matter. The nice often aren’t admired for their humility because there’s little to remark about goodness when you can’t be bad. Outrage over the unfairness of this arrangement is almost always futile, because so many facets of ones appearance, personality, inherited wealth, etc. are either highly resistant or impossible to change. One must accept what they cannot control with whatever grace they can muster, or waste their lives being gnawed by bitterness.

Are you a nice guy ? Well, how about paying more attention to the plain Jane, the wallflower, the good people who are in the same boat as you. So you’re not “all that”. Join the club. There are countless others around you who, perhaps unlike yourself, have gotten over needing the “perfect” mate, and might just be looking for a good friend, warts and all. Are you? If not, you’ll have to work extra hard to snare that beauty queen, and the returns on your investment may be less than whay you had hoped, once the wonder over your good fortune wears off.

Bitter “nice” guys don’t find love because, too often, they couldn’t bear to be with someone like themselves. Sometimes they find out too late they can’t manage being an asshole as successfully as they hoped, and have to settle for something less glamorous. Life ain’t fair, kiddo. Best accept it and try to find what happiness you can, before you waste any more time.

Oh my fucking god Incubus, you’re beyond the pale here. You were a nice guy a very short while ago. You held those same attitudes. People on the SDMB helped you to understand what you were doing wrong and why some of those attitudes weren’t working. You’re proudly wearing you new “Not a Doormat” button, and yet when others come in with the exact same fucking problem, you don’t see how they have the audacity to waste your precious fucking SDMB server space and want the damn things filtered.

You’re a perfect fucking example of how a “Nice Guy” can be an absolute fucking dick. Congratulations. You deserve your own pit-thread over this.

Wow. Just . . . wow. I’m not sure if I agree with your theory or not, Loopydude, but it’s sure well thought-out and well-written. I was trying to define “cynicism” to my daughter just the other night, without much success. Your first three paragraphs are the best working description I’ve seen.

So, thanks! I think . . . :confused:

I’m speechless too. What a great post.

GO GO GO LOOPY!

I actually found it uplifting.

Agreed. I’m not sure whether it’s correct, or tells 100% of the story, but it’s a compelling hypothesis. I’ve often thought the same thing myself.

I admit it’s harsh, but on those occasions when life proves more nuanced than my starkest assertions can support, holding this particular point of view, is even more uplifting than one might think, given only a cursory assessment. :wink:

Ugh! Nothing Nietzsche didn’t think of a long time ago. “The world ain’t fair, so I’m gonna get mine and fuck everybody else. And if you don’t get yours, you’re a pathetic weakling.” A clever way to rationalize one’s own abhorrent behavior, but disgusting nonetheless. Not uplifting at all.

Actually, I would have called outlining the faint hope and satisfaction those who lack the ability to be abhorrent with impunity can attempt to eke out of the harsh world we live in. It’s no attempt to justify anything, least of all abuse of others. Rather, it’s an attempt explain in terms more realistic than those fed to us by pop-psychologists why it’s self-defeating to be consumed by negative feelings over the lack of justice in ones plight, whilst acknowledging the arrangement fundamentally sucks. The way to be nice in the more idealistic sense is to not be an asshole (or worse, a pathetic excuse for one), but that involves swallowing the bitter pill of reality, and accepting not only our own flaws, but those of others as well, in our search for companship.

Sorry, I honestly can’t parse that sentence. It appears to lack an object - maybe there’s a typo in there that’s obscuring the meaning?

Yep, it lacks an…

Actually, I would have called IT outlining the faint hope and satisfaction those who lack the ability to be abhorrent with impunity can attempt to eke out of the harsh world we live in.

Yep, it lacks an…

*Actually, I would have called IT outlining the faint hope and satisfaction those who lack the ability to be abhorrent with impunity can attempt to eke out of the harsh world we live in.

Might as well mention this – for the perpetually lonely guy (and gal), you can get out of your slump if you really want to work at it. The self-help section of your local bookstore can be a great asset, but the downside is that you a) have to wade through colossally large amounts of crap to find anything of value, which may not be stocked at all anyway, and b) might be seen in the self-help section. This requires an initial financial outlay for a floppy hat and sunglasses.

Fortunately, I have done the leg work already. I have examined such wonderful titles as How to Give Your Partner the Big O and 10 Stupid Things People Do to Waste Their Money in Bookstores.

This is the only book you’ll need. At $2.95 through Amazon, you can’t afford not to own it.

Sorry, but I object to this philosophy. I do not believe that the only thing that keeps any of us acting like decent human beings is that we lack the ability to be anything else. People often chose to be nice. They don’t do it only because they lack the ability to be an asshole.

Do they always? Do they as children? I think you underestimate the influence of societal constraints and conditioning.

tdn - I hope you didn’t think my post implied that I think that all “nice guys” are at best spineless wimps and at most total fuckheads. But it’s been my experience that there are also a lot of real jerks around there who say that they’re nice, then go on to bitch about how all women are evil and hateful and only into guys for the money and how they want boyfriends they don’t have to sleep with and… I think a lot of people on the boards are suffering from a certain amount of “nice guy” fatigue. They see the threads, roll their eyes, and move on without bothering to read the thread and see if they’re being faced with a nice guy or a “nice guy.” Because not all guys who say that they’re nice are actually nice guys. It’s a bummer, but it’s the truth.

That’s why I suggested we ditch the “nice guy” label in my last post. It’s easier on all of us if we deal with each individual with a dating crisis as an individual, and not get into the labels. The world’s a hell of a lot more complicated than nice guys and assholes (and the women who love them).

I can agree with that.

That’s why I always type Nice Guy[sub]TM[/sub].

And actually, I think the female equivalent is Opposite Girl[sub]TM[/sub]. The one who tells you that she doesn’t want to talk about it when she does, who won’t tell you what she’s feeling and wants you to read her mind, who asks you constantly if this dress makes her look fat-be honest-but no matter what you say, you’re either lying and she really IS a fat pig or you’re a jerk for being honest.

Blowero, I’m so glad this is in the pit instead of GD so I can finally just say it: either you’re a pathologically sloppy reader or you’re still struggling with being able to read for meaning. That is not AT ALL the moral of Loopy’s post. It’s not even remotely fucking close. In fact it’s about the EXACT OPPOSITE of what he was saying.

I think I’ve pinpointed where your theory and most people in this thread go astray - “nice” is not passive. Nice is not a doormat. Nice is simply the absence of malice. I consider myself a nice person in real life; I am not a doormat, I don’t let people walk over me, I speak up when I have something to say. I don’t go out of my way to hurt other people, but I don’t allow other people to hurt me. There are better words for people who allow other people to take advantage of them; “nice” isn’t it.

Gee, I’m a nice guy (no SO, check) but I never posted that here because I didn’t think you’d want to hear it.

And now I know for sure.

Returning to lurker mode…