CanadaDope 2017: Celebrating the Sesquicentennial - "... and loving it!"

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
221

I know multi-nationalism is ubiquitous in all layers of Canadian society. I think that’s cool; it feels un-Canadian to regulate people’s identity ("You can’t be “X nationality and Canadian” feels dictatorial and wrong). However, I don’t like our politicians campaigning for other politicians in other countries, or voting in their general elections.

Mulcair, you’re a current elected representative in Canada, leader of one of our major parties, and former contender for PM; Christ, be Canadian in Canada and leave France in France. Until you resign your position you should represent us alone.

222

If he’s a French citizen, why shouldn’t he vote? Not seeing the outrage.

223

I don’t like our politicians participating in the political system of another country. In fact, an official representative of Canada should be barred from excising their political rights as a foreign national, while holding office.

I hold plenty of extreme positions, I don’t think this is one of them.

224

I suppose the inverse would be applicable as well? Dual nationals would be barred from holding office? If you do that, then you’ve created a literal second class citizen. That strikes me as a bad thing.

225

No. Banning dual nationals from participating in our democracy is silly and blatantly contrary to Section 3 of the CCoRaF.

Our elected officials should be banned from participating in the democracies of foreign nations.

226

The inverse would be France banning official French representatives from voting in Canadian elections while they hold office in the French Parliament.

227

Section 3 of the Charter provides Tom Mulcair with the constitutional right to sit in Parliament. How can Parliament limit that right by saying he can’t vote in French elections?

228

Normally we police the actions of elected officials through some sort of censure, no? I hardly think being ejected from their elected seat is a viable or measured response.

229

But you’re trying to put a condition on his right to vote in France that does not apply to other dual nationals, only to those in Parliament. That’s a restriction on his personal civic rights triggered by him being an MP, which looks like a restriction on his right to sit on Parliament based on his citizenship, which is a protected ground under s. 15.

230

Its a restriction of his French civic rights, not Canadian. It would be very charitable to assume that the CCoRaF secures foreign rights. IANAL

231

Technical question for Northern Piper:

[ol]
[li]Is the Queen both the Crown of and a citizen of Canada and bunch of other nations, or [/li][li]is she the Crown for Canada and a bunch of other nations but is only a UK citizen, or [/li][li]is she just the Crown of Canada and a bunch of other nations but holds no citizenship unless she were to abdicate, and[/li][li]if she did abdicate, of which nations would she be a citizen?[/li][/ol]

232

Section 15 prohibits discrimination based on citizenship - not just Canadian citizenship, but any foreign citizenship. Your proposal would single him out for special treatment based on his French citizenship.

233

UDS did an analysis of this in another thread some time ago. He concluded that HM is a UK citizen right now, because she was not sovereign when the UK created UK citizenship, and therefore she acquired UK citizenship just like everyone else in the UK who was formerly a British subject.

I don’t think she has Canadian citizenship, but I’ve never looked into it.

234

This would not be a restriction based on his citizenship but his actions. He is French, but a proposed censure would be based on participation in foreign politics.

235

Of related note on the whole dual French/Canadian citizenship: Michaelle Jean renounced her French citizenship when she became Governor General in order to be in compliance with French law. From here:

So if “holding government or military positions” is an issue for the French, then Mulclair (and Dion before him, and who knows who else) should have renounced their French citizenship from that angle when they became MPs. Now, obviously they didn’t, and no one said they should, but I’m from the whole “no one can serve two masters” school of thought.

236

You can be French, but if you use your rights as a French citizen, we punish you.

That sounds like a distinction based on his citizenship.

237

Yes, but Northern, it looks like France places such limitations on its citizens when it comes to other countries. I’d be curious for your opinion on why that was an issue for Jean, and it is not an issue for an MP? I’m guessing there must be some distinction on what a “government position” is, and/or the rule is only on paper and it was only made an issue of in the case of the Governor General.

238

Well, I’m not a French lawyer, but let’s give it a try.

Here’s the clause of the Napoleonic Code:

[QUOTE=Code Napoléon]
23-8 Perd la nationalité française le Français qui, occupant un emploi dans une armée ou un service public étranger ou dans une organisation internationale dont la France ne fait pas partie ou plus généralement leur apportant son concours, n’a pas résigné son emploi ou cessé son concours nonobstant l’injonction qui lui en aura été faite par le Gouvernement.

L’intéressé sera, par décret en Conseil d’Etat, déclaré avoir perdu la nationalité française si, dans le délai fixé par l’injonction, délai qui ne peut être inférieur à quinze jours et supérieur à deux mois, il n’a pas mis fin à son activité.

Lorsque l’avis du Conseil d’Etat est défavorable, la mesure prévue à l’alinéa précédent ne peut être prise que par décret en conseil des ministres.
[/QUOTE]

First thing, is that it’s not an automatic loss of citizenship. The provision only comes into play if the French government requires the individual either to resign the post, or resign the citizenship.

Second, Jean clearly came within the first part: as Commander-in-chief of the Canadian armed Forces, she was in a foreign military service, at the highest level. I can see why the French would be concerned by that.

However, the second part is more ambiguous: what is “un service public étranger”? As an MP, Mulcair is not part of the Government of Canada. He’s part of the legislative branch, not the executive, and not part of the legislative supporters of the Government. I can see why the French government may not think that is worthy of them raising it.

So, it looks like a question of discretion for the French government, and they’ve not raised it with respect to opposition MPs in Canada. (I believe Stephane Dion voluntarily resigned his French citizenship when it became an issue when he won the Liberal leadership in Opposition. I don’t think the French government raised the issue.)

239

Makes sense! Thank you.

240

I know a number of military and ex-military people who were indirectly involved in the Afghanistan operation at issue, who say that Sajjan may have overemphasized the amount by which he influenced the operational planning, but not by much, and certainly not anything they would consider a lie.