For what it’s worth, no one is casting doubt on whether Trump wanted to join the rioters while they treasonously and seditiously tried to overthrow the government of the United States – he definitely did not want to go back to the White House, he wanted to join that crowd of domestic terrorists, traitors, white supremacists, and, I suppose, some good people on both sides…
Isn’t this whole thing about casting doubt on exactly that?
The tactic is casting doubt on one detail (did Trumpelthinskin lunge at the steering wheel and/or the agents in the SUV?) in a weak (but sufficient for the weak-minded MAGAtroids) attempt to cast doubt on the overall account.
Yes, this. I think even the anonymous source stated that it’s true that Trump wanted to join his fellow traitors and seditionists.
It’s worth remembering that he had previously outright said in his speech that he was going to go to the Capitol with them. Even if he was lying, admitting so would be off-brand for him.
Cite, please. I’m serious. I have yet to see an official response from the SS saying anything even close to that, so if I missed it, please steer me in the right direction.
I’m wait to hear all involved “Barely Know Her” !
Was that from Spokesman “John Barron”?
Or Spokesman “Gudy Rulliani”?
Slate has an interview with Carol Leonnig, a reporter for the Washington Post who reports on the Secret Service and has written a book about its history. She confirms that “sources” within the SS deny the attack, but I haven’t seen any confirmation that Trump was “very irate.” And all the same caveats: this is all second hand, not direct from the men in the limo, no one has testified under oath, no official response, etc.
I have been in contact with many Secret Service sources who are familiar with Bobby Engel’s and Tony Ornato’s account of that day, and they say that both men deny any assault took place, and Tony denies ever suggesting an assault took place. I haven’t talked to Tony or Bobby directly—I want to be clear about that. It’s Secret Service sources briefed on the two men’s accounts of Jan. 6.
She was asked about what she was told, not what actually happened. There’s no reason to doubt the account told to her. Nobody expects that she knows what happened in that car, only what she was told later on about it.
Exactly. Yet there are lots of people stating that the SS has denied her story, when it has done nothing of the sort. The SS has said nothing. Everything at this point is hearsay and not under oath.
The part of her testimony where she referred to “the Beast” was where she was confirming to Vice Chair Cheney what someone told her. Ornato referred to it as “the Beast”, and Hutchinson was reiterating what Ornato said.
She herself did not refer to the vehicle as “the Beast” She regularly refers to it as “the vehicle”.
I am underinformed in general about Presidential security protocols and also haven’t been following these hearings threads all that closely, so apologies if I’m asking naive questions that any idiot ought to know the answer to already, but:
Is there a security risk for the SS detail themselves in being too forthcoming about exactly what happened involving whom? I mean, I understand (I think) that Hutchinson herself is getting security protection because of death threats and what not. If a particular SS agent takes the stand and says “Yes I refused to let POTUS take the wheel to drive to the marchers because we deemed it unsafe”, does that expose him to the same sort of “This traitor disobeyed Dear Leader’s orders and stabbed the patriots in the back, we must have revenge!” dangerous nutbaggery?
Not so much that as “Betrayal of the Blue Line.” They’d be shunned by others in the SS and would likely end up chasing counterfeiters in West Bumfuck, Wyoming (which is now the State Capital!)
There is always ones family to consider, of course.
There is a very valid reason for SS agents to keep quiet about anything the President does. If the President is worried about an agent testifying about criminal activity or even just something embarrassing (like a blowjob), they will attempt to keep agents at a distance. So instead of right outside the bedroom door, stand down the hall a ways. Instead of walking next to him, walk 10 yards back. That makes protection more difficult. This was a big issue when agents were forced to testify about their knowledge of Clinton’s time spent with Monica Lewinsky.
I think with Ornato in particular, any reluctance to testify and willingness to lie probably includes some blind fealty to Trump. But even agents who dislike Trump personally will be reluctant for a good reason.
Who took the video of the alleged lunge?
Since there was no assertion by Hutchinson that an assault took place, I guess everyone is now on the same page.
If Omato denies saying it, Engel denies hearing Omato tell the story, and someone else says they were around Omato all day and this discussion never happened, then there’s a problem with her testimony.
Otherwise, any inaccuracies are on Omato.
Some corroboration is forthcoming:
Please, Lunge with intent to steer if you would.
I am desperately trying to be relevant by coining a phrase that is widely used on SDMB!
CNN has been reporting this morning that versions of the story are widely known inside the Secret Service and they have been since February. If that turns out to be true, and I have no doubt it is, that makes it pretty obvious the guys told the story to several people with knowledge of and access to POTUS as a kind of braggadocios tale of what they had to endure from the Two-Hundred Sixty pound child in the backseat.
It reminds me of this phenomenon that I often witnessed in masculine dominated workplaces. After a Parks &Rec softball game, several of us were discussing stopping at a bar on the way home for a beer or two. When asked, my carpool friend said hell yes he is going! He told us how he laid down the law earlier: “Woman, I am full grown man and if I want to stop for a beer or two with my teammates I damn well will!!” Then we got in the car and I asked when he talked to Lily. Right before we left for the game, why? So I reminded him that I was standing right there when the conversation took place and that I remembered it differently. I remember you saying-- "Honey, if we win tonight, is it okay if I stop for a beer with the guys?? I will not spend more than twenty dollars and I will come home sober enough to get in bed quietly. Is that okay with you?
Sometimes guys brag or exaggerate to impress their buddies. I am sure the lunging with intent incident is far from the worst story staffers have told about that guy.