Yeah, Dio’s info jibes with what I learned from my biblical studies in my misspent youth.
SERIOUSLY? My Jewish education, Wiki, Jewfaq, Chabad.org, etc. all failed me?
brb I’m going to the bookshelf (the old fashioned way)
I always remember the sacrificial lamb because it was supposed to be eaten with “bitter herbs.” I don’t know why, but that was always appealing. Ooh, bitter herbs!
Why would you argue about something you are clearly clueless about? Bizarre.
eta: Wiki failed you?
I think you failed wiki.
“And Jesus turned, and saith unto them, ‘Bitter herbs? I hardly know her!’”
Arnold Winkelried would you share your thoughts on this?
Wrong.
Dio is confusing Passover, where a lamb was sacrificed, with Yom Kippur, where a goat had the sins of the people placed upon it and was led off to die in the wilderness in atonement for the people’s sins.
I can’t believe that a handful of ignorant Dopers had me sweating my cajones over this. I seriously did just dig out three Jewish history books, wondering if somehow we went from two atonement festivals to one in the rabbinical period, and if so, how come this was never mentioned in the Torah? !
I will accept apologies. :o
Oh no he isnt!
Negatorio, mate. You failed in this thread.
all right, gotta go help the kid practice his Four Questions before I feel like a real failure.
But of course, he’ll never admit that confusion.
You’re right. On a quick read through I see that the passover sacrifice was different in that it wasn’t for sins. However, saying Dio “made up a holiday” is quite wrong, he just conflated the two (note to “Dio is infallible on the Bible” people). The fact that CitizenPained didn’t manage to google “Paschal Lamb” doesn’t leave me much room to give her credit for anything.
Bullshit. I get all the credit here.
First, I don’t need to Google paschal lamb. I even stated in the thread that I’m perfectly aware of the traditions surrounding the sacrifices during the First & Second temple eras. It would make sense, you know, being Jewish and stuff, and like, having you know, like a certificate in Jewish Studies, nu?
Dio was wrong. He did make up a new holiday - a hybrid holiday maybe - but a new one nonetheless. (I should note that Passover is a hybrid holiday. :o)
Shit, I was even willing to sincerely apologize if I somehow missed a major point in early Jewish history. I even asked Finn, Google, and a couple of history books I have on the shelf after people started saying I was obviously wrong. Had I been wrong, I would have been tough enough to own up to it. Dio, on the other hand, will probably change the meaning of a word or two so that he’s still ‘correct’.
For someone who signed up to this board less than a month ago, you sure seem invested in this Dio issue, CP.
What exactly did you ask Google?
I really don’t care about Dio and his Dio-railments. I just don’t like his claim to be a “historian” of “Jewish history” based on his “knowledge of Greek”. Makey no sense. After getting into two rounds of his shit, I decided you guys weren’t just picking on him. He also does seem to get a bit of a pass on the arbitrary forum “rules”.
Yeah, being a newbie can have its benefits. I don’t have five years of Doper history to cloud my judgment. 
Here’s a hint: When you are jumping up and down in excitement over a gotcha ya moment regarding Dio’s incorrect description of a ritual involving the sacrifice of an unblemished lamb, it might be helpful to be more clear that you’re overwrought about the less eye catching part about whether it was done for atonement or not. Especially when you are asked what part in particular it was that he got wrong.
Otherwise you end up looking like a punctilious dumbass with a certificate in Jewish studies.
Nice harpoon there, Capt. Ahab.
First of all, that’s Miss Capt. Ahab to you, and second if all, if you read this thread correctly, you’ll see that someone said Google agreed with Dio but didn’t cite where. Gee. :rolleyes: Sounds like a Dio! “I’m right! No cite!”
Third, if you look at the post I cited and the thread in question, you will clearly see (provided you can distinguish the bold print) that my point of contention was his equating Passover with a fucking atonement of sins festival.
I clearly stated that he had his holidays mixed up.
If you want to be a prick, then I guess this is good way to do it. In a single post, Dio managed to change the entire meaning of a holiday:
At least I know my Jewish history and don’t walk around the boards like a “historian” with a B.A. in Sanctimonious Assholitry.
Please cite where I said you made up the paschal lamb.
Same argument in two threads? Well I guess I can post here what I posted there, but with less great-debatey language. In a nutshell there’s support for Dio’s position regarding Passover rituals being for atonement although I wouldn’t call it a fair description of the ritual. It was foremost about the remembrance/community building. Probably the best support there is for the atonement interpretation takes the form of Ezekiel Chapter 45, verses 21-23
In the 2000+ years since the destruction of the second temple it’s been 99%+ about the community and remembrance aspects and the atonement aspect has pretty much gone by the wayside in modern Jewish practice, but Passover as was celebrated during the ancient times was a time for reflection and community bonding with a side of atonement.
Enjoy,
Steven