catsix are you serious?

[Excalibre]

@gobear

Catsix is Camille Paglia?

I’m sick of people bashing Camille Paglia. Camille Paglia is weird, yes, but she’s hated mostly because, during the height of feminism as an intellectual movement (rather than a political one), she had the nerve to write an essay that did not match up well with the feminist orthodoxy. What she wrote had a lot of insight, as well - and as the years have passed, a lot of feminists are giving her a second look. There was a certain amount of opposition to anything that didn’t tow the party line in those days, and I’d like to think people can get past that now.

@catsix

Based on a prior conversation (yes, conversation) in which KellyM told me that I should seek psychiatric help instead of trying to lose weight because I needed to learn to ‘accept my body the way it is’, I figure she’s got one or two screws loose.

Wait, what? Am I defending catsix?

Yep. If KellyM told her to see a shrink instead of losing weight, that was at best inane. I love KellyM’s posts, but that strikes me as quite extreme, and it could be interpreted as an insult - telling someone to seek psychiatric help can be honest advice, but it can also be an insult.

I’ve said before, and I’ll say it again: catsix is batshit insane. But she’s batshit insane in a good way - she has what I would consider an immensely unusual viewpoint. She could tone down the stridency a bit, I think, but we’re far better off with her than without. It’s not bad to have someone with an unorthodox perspective around to say things that others disagree with.

I haven’t seen much that really qualifies as misogyny. Perhaps a tendency towards it, but catsix just has very strong opinions and an odd need to defend men against the excesses of feminism. I think it’s awfully odd that she sees this as the primary problem besetting the U.S. - but I think there’s also a certain validity to what she says, and it’s a mistake to try to hide from it. I say this as someone who’s pretty ardently feminist, FWIW.

[Rilchiam]

@Aesiron

No sense? How so? If **KellyM **did indeed say what **catsix **says she did, how is that not hypocrisy? Transsexualism is a much more intensive body modification program than weight loss by several orders of magnitude and I’m not seeing how a transsexual telling a dieter to seek psychiatric help because s/he should accept his or her body for what it is(!) can be anything but.

I could be wrong, and I don’t wish to speak for transsexuals here, but the impression I get is that when someone has sex-change surgery, it’s because their need to be who they really are is so much more intense than the need to reach an ideal weight.

Not having the perfect body weight can be lived with. Being in the wrong body altogether cannot. Not very easily, anyway.

Again, apologies if I’m wrong, and by all means correct me if I am.

[KellyM]

I’m not going to get deeply involved with this thread; however, what I will do is point out that catsix should not be taken as a reliable reporter of what I may or may not have said to her in the past; her point of view is necessarily biased, and, as has been noted, she’s obviously somewhere pretty close to batshit crazy anyway.

I do think catsix is obsessed about her weight. There are lots of people on the SDMB who are trying to lose weight, but I can’t think of a one of them that is as messed up about it as catsix is. I (and others) have in the past suggested to her that she has dysmorphia and that she should consider seeing a psychiatrist about that. It was offered at the time as advice; it was not intended as an insult, although it is quite clear that she took it as one. I, at least, admit my dysmorphia; catsix denies hers.

There’s also the whole issue with her stunningly violent misogyny going on – I’m sure a great deal of her self-hate is intertwined with that. When you put the pieces together, it’s pretty obvious that catsix is a lot closer to the “fucking nuts” pole of human behavior than the “well adjusted” pole.

As to the judge in that previous thread: I figured they’d get along stunningly, since they obviously both hate women.

[catsix]

Rilchaim said:
I could be wrong, and I don’t wish to speak for transsexuals here, but the impression I get is that when someone has sex-change surgery, it’s because their need to be who they really are is so much more intense than the need to reach an ideal weight.

Yeah, cause it’s not like being too fat can kill you, with the strain it adds to the heart and all.

KellyM said:
I’m not going to get deeply involved with this thread; however, what I will do is point out that catsix should not be taken as a reliable reporter of what I may or may not have said to her in the past; her point of view is necessarily biased, and, as has been noted, she’s obviously somewhere pretty close to batshit crazy anyway.

In other words, you don’t think I should have any credibility with anyone because you think I’m a crazy person. My opinion of you is only biased by the fact that you’ve said extremely nasty things about my mental state without provocation in the past. Things which, by the way, have been remembered by people other than me.

I do think catsix is obsessed about her weight.

Because I’d like to lose some?

I (and others) have in the past suggested to her that she has dysmorphia and that she should consider seeing a psychiatrist about that. It was offered at the time as advice;

Oh yeah, not wanting to be fat is ‘dysmorphia’. Not wanting to be at an unhealthy weight is not dysmorphia. It’s part of trying to be a healthy person. Being too fat is bad for the fucking heart, it’s not about being deluded about what you see in the mirror.

it was not intended as an insult, although it is quite clear that she took it as one. I, at least, admit my dysmorphia; catsix denies hers.

No, asshole, I’d like to avoid dying too young of heart disease. I’d like to not have severely high cholesterol and elevated blood pressure. I’d like to be healthy. That’s not goddamn dysmorphia. Why you insist that it’s a mental problem rather than my physical health that affects my desire to lose weight, I don’t fucking know. But you really should’ve left it alone when you were asked to. Instead, you harped on and on about how I should just learn to accept being fat.

I refuse to learn to accept being unhealthy.

There’s also the whole issue with her stunningly violent misogyny going on – I’m sure a great deal of her self-hate is intertwined with that.

See what I mean? I want to lose weight so that I can be healthy, and it’s all about ‘self-hate’ to KellyM. I can’t stand sexist, bigoted freaks who tar an entire gender to further their agenda, and I’m supposedly a misogynist. And now I’m being told I hate myself because I’m female.

When the fuck did KellyM become a shrink let alone my shrink?

s to the judge in that previous thread: I figured they’d get along stunningly, since they obviously both hate women.

I hate bigoted, sexist freaks with an agenda, not women. It’d benefit you to learn the fucking difference.

[Kaitlyn]

@Rilchiam

I could be wrong, and I don’t wish to speak for transsexuals here, but the impression I get is that when someone has sex-change surgery, it’s because their need to be who they really are is so much more intense than the need to reach an ideal weight.

Not having the perfect body weight can be lived with. Being in the wrong body altogether cannot. Not very easily, anyway.

Again, apologies if I’m wrong, and by all means correct me if I am.

This is a pretty good description. One of the risks of hormone therapy is rapid, uncontrolled weight gain. Yet there isn’t a transsexual I know who would trade in her homones to be thinner. I’d choose overweight and female over fit and male in a heartbeat, not that that’s a choice I’ve had to make.

In fact, I have chosen to make myself less phsyically fit as the price of being able to have a female body chemistry. I’m very weak in my upper body, bruise very easily and the bruises and wounds heal slowly, I get infections more easily, and I have a metabolism that slows to a crawl if I don’t work out like a madwoman.

This isn’t meant to belittle obesity. Any severe condition benefits from psychological counseling to aid in combatting it.

[Excalibre]

@Kaitlyn

This is a pretty good description. One of the risks of hormone therapy is rapid, uncontrolled weight gain. Yet there isn’t a transsexual I know who would trade in her homones to be thinner. I’d choose overweight and female over fit and male in a heartbeat, not that that’s a choice I’ve had to make.

In fact, I have chosen to make myself less phsyically fit as the price of being able to have a female body chemistry. I’m very weak in my upper body, bruise very easily and the bruises and wounds heal slowly, I get infections more easily, and I have a metabolism that slows to a crawl if I don’t work out like a madwoman.

This isn’t meant to belittle obesity. Any severe condition benefits from psychological counseling to aid in combatting it.

But don’t you understand where catsix is coming from here? I agree that it seems questionable for someone who’s had major surgery done to their body to criticize another person’s attempts to lose weight. I know more than one transgendered person in my own life, and I don’t want to question the motivation of those transitioning, because it’s not a light decision and it’s not something voluntarily elected. But still, it strikes me as odd to consider a decision to lose weight excessive in light of that, and I can easily see why catsix said that (even if she said it badly and implied something she didn’t mean.)

I don’t know the history of catsix’s weight situation, so I don’t know what drove KellyM to “diagnose” her with body dysmorphic disorder. But I do think it’s pretty questionable to make that diagnosis over the internet, and it’s pretty insulting as well.

[lee]

@Excalibre

I don’t know what drove KellyM to “diagnose” her with body dysmorphic disorder. But I do think it’s pretty questionable to make that diagnosis over the internet, and it’s pretty insulting as well.

This was after a lenghty session of catsix revelling in her own self hatred and going on and on about about how she hated how she looks to the point of covering every mirror in the house. That and the rest of her drivel prompted the armchair diagnosis.

KellyM has dysmorphia, as do many transsexuals, so she knows a bit from experience. I think what she said about catsix reflects her opinion of catsix and was not nice and better left unsaid. That said, I do think catsix taking a swipe at all of transsexuals to try to get at one was uncalled for and just the kind of lovely behavior I expect from her.

[Kaitlyn]

I make no judgements regarding what KellyM and catsix did or didn’t say to each other. Because that happened off the boards, and I don’t have access to what happened, I don’t know enough to make such a judgement fairly. I’ve read enough of each to know they’re both more than capable of presenting their side of the situation without my help or intervention.

My response was to Rilchiam’s presentation of how a transsexual feels in her body, which I thought was right on.

[Kaitlyn]

That was in response to Excalibre. lee snuck in while I was typing.

[Rilchiam]

@Kaitlyn

My response was to Rilchiam’s presentation of how a transsexual feels in her body, which I thought was right on.

::::

Well, I got it from you, really. In your other thread, you gave the best explanation I’ve ever read of why someone would transition.

[Excalibre]

@Kaitlyn

I make no judgements regarding what KellyM and catsix did or didn’t say to each other. Because that happened off the boards, and I don’t have access to what happened, I don’t know enough to make such a judgement fairly. I’ve read enough of each to know they’re both more than capable of presenting their side of the situation without my help or intervention.

My response was to Rilchiam’s presentation of how a transsexual feels in her body, which I thought was right on.

Would that it were easier to keep disputes off the boards from getting onto the boards. I just think the pile-on of catsix here was unfair and unnecessary. I understand that KellyM is well-loved, and certainly catsix’s comment sounded like a condemnation of transgenderism. But it wasn’t.

I guess that’s why pile-ons are bad - because everyone was reacting in defense against a statement that was never made. catsix’s culpability was limited to bad phrasing, and it turned into one of those shark-frenzies that overtake the boards sometimes.

I’m thinking I ought to spend a lot less time in the pit. Maybe less time here in general. It certainly was unattractive to see that amongst two people who acted in an unseemly fashion, one was roundly condemned while the other was defended. And instead of keeping their complaints on the topic, people dredged up every past issue they had in regard to catsix. How unpleasant for everyone.

[Kaitlyn]

Again, I took no position regarding catsix and KellyM’s dispute, not wanting to be involved in something about which I have too little information to make a reasonable judgement.

Rilchiam made a comment about how some transsexuals may feel about their bodies, and I confirmed that she is quite right about that feeling, at least as it pertains to me.

I do notice that catsix has graduated from calling KellyM a “psychotic” to a “freak”. This leads me to wonder what it is about KellyM that makes her a “freak” in catsix’s eyes, and whether the “not women” comment is meant as an insinuation that KellyM, and by implication, other MTF transsexuals, are not actually women.

Mind you, I’m not making any accusations here, but those comments could easily be misinterpreted as an indictment of all trassexuals if it wasn’t actually the intended meaning.

[Excalibre]

@Kaitlyn

Again, I took no position regarding catsix and KellyM’s dispute, not wanting to be involved in something about which I have too little information to make a reasonable judgement.

Rilchiam made a comment about how some transsexuals may feel about their bodies, and I confirmed that she is quite right about that feeling, at least as it pertains to me.

I do notice that catsix has graduated from calling KellyM a “psychotic” to a “freak”. This leads me to wonder what it is about KellyM that makes her a “freak” in catsix’s eyes, and whether the “not women” comment is meant as an insinuation that KellyM, and by implication, other MTF transsexuals, are not actually women.

Mind you, I’m not making any accusations here, but those comments could easily be misinterpreted as an indictment of all trassexuals if it wasn’t actually the intended meaning.

Kaitlyn, I’m sorry. You haven’t done anything wrong here, and I didn’t see your name in my cursory examination of even sven’s trainwreck of a thread. I have a tendency to forget that I quoted a post when making a more general statement. When I quoted you in the above statement, it wasn’t to imply that you’d done anything wrong. I think this whole catsix pile-on has been ugly, but you haven’t been involved in the ugliness.

[KellyM]

@Kaitlyn

I do notice that catsix has graduated from calling KellyM a “psychotic” to a “freak”. This leads me to wonder what it is about KellyM that makes her a “freak” in catsix’s eyes, and whether the “not women” comment is meant as an insinuation that KellyM, and by implication, other MTF transsexuals, are not actually women.

catsix has, in prior posts, made it quite clear that she believes that gender is determined by genitals, and that taking a knife to them doesn’t change anything (except that it make you a freak). She’s made it quite clear that anybody who has (or once had) a penis is not “enough like her” to be considered a woman.

[Queen_Tonya]

Gotta cite for any of that?

[Marley23]

@catsix

Yeah, cause it’s not like being too fat can kill you, with the strain it adds to the heart and all.

Yes, it can. Putting transsexualism on par with being overweight is still, no pun intended, a pretty big stretch.

[catsix]

lee said:
That said, I do think catsix taking a swipe at all of transsexuals to try to get at one was uncalled for and just the kind of lovely behavior I expect from her.

I didn’t take a swipe at all transsexuals lee. I meant it directly, solely, and only for KellyM, based on specific things that KellyM said.

Just because I happened to say something mean to someone who is a transsexual doesn’t mean I said it because they are a transsexual. Mmmmkay?

Kaitlyn said:
This leads me to wonder what it is about KellyM that makes her a “freak” in catsix’s eyes, and whether the “not women” comment is meant as an insinuation that KellyM, and by implication, other MTF transsexuals, are not actually women.

Honestly, did you even read what I typed? I said that I have a problem with those feminists who are bigoted, sexist freaks with an agenda (uh, Catharine MacKinnon, Andrea Dworkin, margin come to mind), that I don’t hate all women as I have been accused of.

Where in that statement are you reading what you claim I just said? KellyM is a few fries short of a happy meal if she assumes that because she has a disorder about her body and wants to change it, that my wanting to change something about my body is evidence that I obviously have the same disorder. I didn’t say anything about her or any other MTF transsexual being ‘not women’.

I said ‘I hate feminists, not all women.’

KellyM said:
catsix has, in prior posts, made it quite clear that she believes that gender is determined by genitals, and that taking a knife to them doesn’t change anything (except that it make you a freak). She’s made it quite clear that anybody who has (or once had) a penis is not “enough like her” to be considered a woman.

You’re responding to things I didn’t say. Weren’t you just calling me a liar on page 1?

Marley23 said:
Yes, it can. Putting transsexualism on par with being overweight is still, no pun intended, a pretty big stretch.

Yeah, it can. That was sarcasm. Also, I’m not the first one who suggested that being overweight is like being transsexual - dysmorphia. That’d be KellyM.

If you guys are going to jump all over me and bitch me out, I can handle that. Could we possibly do that for things I actually said instead of the made-up crap that’s getting slung in here?

I insulted KellyM with a hum-fucking-dinger of an insult that was designed and intended solely for her because I believe she’s a hypocrite.

I hate feminists, such as but not limited to, Catharine MacKinnon, Andrea Dworking, Susan Brownmiller, Germaine Greer, Gloria Steinem, and their bigoted, sexist, lie spreading, freak agenda.

I do not hate all women.

I did not say a damn thing about ‘all transsexuals’ or even ‘transsexuals in general’ in this thread or the rape thread.

So, if you must burn me at the stake, burn me for something I said. Don’t accuse me of hate speech because I think KellyM as an individal is a fucking asshole, because that’s got less than nothing to do with what gender KellyM is.

[Malacandra]

Can I just say that I, for one, do not find catsix to be batshit insane, and if her position on any topic that touches on “gender rancour” can be taken pretty much as a given, that hardly makes her unique?

Of course, a recommendation from me may not count for very much.

[aside]catsix, ain’t you learned yet? A negative remark to any member of a recognised “victim” class is automatically wrong. In some cases, even disagreeing with them is. [/aside]

[Marley23]

@catsix

Just because I happened to say something mean to someone who is a transsexual doesn’t mean I said it because they are a transsexual. Mmmmkay?

That would’ve been much more clear if the fact that she was a transsexual didn’t figure in your insult.

@Malacandra

[aside]catsix, ain’t you learned yet? A negative remark to any member of a recognised “victim” class is automatically wrong. In some cases, even disagreeing with them is. [/aside]

I’m sorry, we’re fresh out of crosses. Perhaps you could nail yourself to something at home and check back next week? :smack:

[Malacandra]

k. pelse xcuse any ereors in t his post , as i am typin with my feet.