Am I the only one here who did wait until marriage, and can tell y’all what it was like?
Mr. genie and I were both virgins. Waiting was a great idea. It still is. Turns out that you can usually pretty much tell beforehand how well you’ll ‘click’ if you’ve been romantically involved for a while and really love each other (since when does chemistry only happen when you’re naked?). Sure, our wedding weekend was a comedy of errors, but I’m glad that it was with him, and within our new marriage, rather than with some guy I never even talk to anymore or something. It all felt very natural and right, and we learned together. We have our own little world–no one else hangs out at the edges of our minds.
And for those of you who think we people who are willing to wait are frigid and can’t talk about sex with our partners, you are quite, quite wrong.
And maybe best of all from a non-religious standpoint, we have never, ever had to worry for a minute about any weird diseases, or even an unwanted pregnancy (it might have been difficult, had I gotten pregnant before we planned to, but not earth-shaking). Personally, I think that in this world of icky or downright deadly STDs and people who are willing to lie about their sexual histories, promiscuity is just insane. It makes no sense.
And Prism02, shame on you for pressuring your friend so much. Why did it bug you that much that he wanted to wait? It wouldn’t have hurt you any, and it was his choice to make if he wanted to. Are you so insecure about your opinions that you have to make others conform to them so you’ll know you’re OK?
I am strongly against waiting for marriage to have sex. I think people should if they have a strong desire to, forcing yourself to have sex would be worse (and silly), but I find it sad.
I have never had sex outside of a loving and committed relationship, and that has worked well for me. But the first time was with another virgin and it went well because we loved each other, but other than that could have been better. I’d hate to have had that happen on my wedding night. If I were getting married, I’d have enough stress organizing the whole affair to want to end it with a stressful and potentially painful/disappointing night. I think a wedding night should be special, and I can think of many instances that were more special than the first time.
I do think non-married relationships can be just as meaningful as married ones, and yes they do end sometimes. So do marriages sometimes. I broke up with the person I first had sex with (after a little over 7 years), and I do not regret any of it. It was beautiful and nice and loving. Yes, we broke up, but people change, and breaking up was a good thing for both of us also. I do not feel that what I had could ever detract from any other relationships. Quite to the contrary, I learned a lot, and things work a lot better for me now. Had we both had more experience then we might not have messed up our first relationship.
I have serious difficulties understanding how ignorance or lack of experience can ever be a virtue. And a relationship is as special as you make it.
Esprix: I am just rattling your cage here, as I know you have said you and your SO are not ready for “M”, but I am sure that a minister of my Church would perfom the ceremony.
So, “can too!”
I wish I could say that I’m not waiting around for a great guy to come around, but I am.
Sex is closely tied to trust for me. I got close to having sex with a couple of guys and it was a lot of fun, but I recognized that I had a greater longing for trust than physical intimacy. And I couldn’t be sure of the guys I was in relationships with.
I know a lot of that has to do with watching all the stuff that happened when my dad cheated on my mom when I was a teenager.
I chose my user name out of the idea that a lot of the relationships out there are transient and can really fuck up a girl’s life.
I don’t want to get fucked over or around by some guy; I have a hard time not being cynical. I think it would be fun to have sex, I like to experiment, I am intellectually curious, but honest to God I have a hard time not thinking that a woman is giving something up to a man. That it’s not an equal exchange. And my girlfriends have backed me up on this. I’m sure the more that a woman has sex, perhaps the less it holds true.
Wish I could see it some other way, but personal experience has led me to have this opinion.
Ah, chaste and virginal genie – well, sort of. My example with my friend was simply that his ‘honorable’ intentions fell all apart as soon as he experienced sex. He was actually afraid to go all the way, being older than normal and very inexperienced. So, as I suspected, the cover story of chastity crumbled once a girl dragged him into her bed for a fun f**k. Afterwards, he started looking for more of that great feeling on his own.
That’s all. Besides, just because a guy pressures another guy about getting sex with a girl does not mean that he, himself, is insecure. Don’t psychoanalyze where there is no need for it. Hey, I have dragged shy male friends into strip clubs, paid dancers I knew to treat them real well and had them walk out like kings. I’ve even paid working girls I knew to seduce and bed some shy friends - all precautions taken, of course. I’ve never had any complaints.
Sometimes a virgin guy will make up some excuse as to why his is still virginal, and his good friends will know it and either respect it or follow the subtle clues he drops and try to get him laid.
Besides, if my friend had felt uncomfortable with my ‘pressuring’ him, he would have asked me to stop and I would have.
Not sure what the relevence of this is. I was not referring to first night expectations, but to all expectations of a what to get out of one’s sex life in general. The more experience a person has, the more likely it is that their present partner will fall short in some way.
Fortunately, the world does not actually bear much resemblence to the pages of The Onion.
Of course not, genie (myself being one of a number of others). But this thread was begun in order to debate the general concept rather than compare personal experience.
Yes, I know, but I was getting the impression that nearly everyone was for non-celibacy, and very few people were considering that life could be OK even if you waited. And if no one had tried waiting, who could say what it would be like?
As a general concept, I think it’s a great idea, and the world would be a better place if everyone did wait. Just think of all the diseases we wouldn’t have. I personally think we would have a lot less heartbreak too, but that’s a little less provable.
And I think I’m even more appalled now by Prism02’s behavior…are your buddies’ future wives going to thank you for sending them to prostitutes? eep.
Kaminer also points out the possibly deceptive optimism involved in prescribing celibacy “until” marriage; she notes that it would be more honest to remind young people that such a vow mandates celibacy “until you marry or die, whichever comes first.”
Mind you, I’m not disparaging your experience or those of the other not-before-marriage posters, and I think it should be more respected and emulated in our oversexed society. I just can’t agree with you that “the world would be a better place if everyone [emphasis mine] did wait.” It will probably always be best for different people who feel differently about it to make different choices.
I have to disagree with this. If anything, not having sex would seem to make someone more willing to make a mistake by getting married earlier, with less of an idea what to expect, and too much riding on that promise of “the one.”
Not to say that I’m not a romantic person, but the odds of marrying “the one” the first time are not ideal. I think waiting until you are in love with the SO is a great idea, but waiting until marriage is too risky.
And no, I don’t think that “everything but” tells one how compatible they will be with their partner. Sex is too different from everything leading up to it to be able to judge ahead of time.
Depends on what you mean by “the one.” Do you mean the perfect partner for achieving one’s life goals? Or specifically for maximizing sexual pleasure? If you mean the former, then I stand by my statement: there are too many factors involved in such a decision that it’s better that they not be skewed by the distraction of physical pleasure. If the latter, then I will concede that you won’t necessarily find that without trying first, but that’s a pretty shaky criterion to base a marriage on.
Sex is a lot less different than you think. Certain factors such as caring, selflessness and a commitment to mutual benefit rather than individual benefit are certainly factors in enjoying sex as they are in day-to-day life.
I strongly disagree. I think the more experience a person has the more likely they’ll be able to teach their partner what they like, and be good for their partner. If you have a good relationship, you should be able to help each other get better, and experience starts you off better. If the person isn’t willing to take suggestions or work with you in getting you both what you want, then the sooner you learnt that, the better.
Oh! And surel, there’s something else that bugs me about IzzyR’s take on this issue. IzzyR wrote:
… which sounds like IzzyR is saying, “The best way to feel content in a marriage is to turn a blind eye to anything else out there that might be better, and fool yourself into thinking you’ve got the best.” Sort-of like wearing rose colored glasses and blinders at the same time.
Sorry, Izzy, but as far as I’m concerned, Orwell’s dystopia had it wrong. Ignorance is not strength.
When Lola and I met we immediately tore off each others clothes and went at it like rabbits. Celibacy was not an issue, just pure animal lust and mutual physical gratification.
Okay, it wasn’t quite like that…
What if you are like Lola and I? We each endured disastrous first marriages and know that divorce is easy enough. We both know that having the state sanction a union does not make it stronger.
We have been living happily together for four years although I have a fundie sister in law who constantly reminds me that we are living in sin and should be married.
When we got together two couples that we knew got married, both had divorced/separated within a year but here we are defying all the odds.
We have made two beautiful daughters and have two sons from her first marriage. We are a family and the things that bond us are much stronger than paper.
I just told Lola that we should be celibate until we are married, she laughed and laughed and laughed. I did too.
I’m not going to tell my next wife about my proclivities regarding chains, candle wax, clothes pins, paddles, gags, video cameras and penguins until after we get married.
Hmmmm…lotta different opinions here…some rational, others less so.
I think whether it’s a good idea or not really depends on how the two people in question view sex, both as an act, and within the context of their relationship. In that respect, nobody can really tell you whether it’s a good idea or not…you have to figure that one out for yourself. For me, tho…it would have been a rotten idea.
