Have I ever cheated on my wife? No. Have I ever been cheated on? Yes. Both of my ex-wives cheated on me and we are divorced because of it. I would have had NO problem taking them back and forgiving them. But as far as trust goes, they would have had to prove to me that I could trust them again. That is something that only comes with time. I do not believe that any form of cheating is justifiable. If two people love each other, how could they ever justify cheating? I agree that cheating is a symptom of a problem in a marriage. The cheater, to me, doesn’t want to deal with the problems in their marriage so they go elsewhere. What is the world ever happened to plain old communication? I would have loved to have had the opportunity to communicate about the problems in both of my marriages, and I would have, if I had known that the ex’es perceived problems. To me, there is no reason not to communicate. When I got married, both times, I said I would love her “til death do us part”. Apparently, it was kind of one-sided. Makes me wonder what is wrong with people in this day and age. Do they really think that the grass is greener on the other side?
Hamadryad, my hat is off to you. You and your husband are to be congratulated because you both took an unfortunate event and turned it into something to build on and make your relationship stronger, and I, for one, salute you.
We were oooOOON a BREAK!!!
–Tim
I have never cheated. I have been cheated on, and I have been the person someone else cheated with. Both made me feel like shit. I will not put myself in that position again. IMHO, from my experience only, once you stray, the relationship is over.
Hi ChiefScott…I still have to disagree to some extent. I understand the concept of one person may take the relationship more seriously than the other. But in my opinion it still comes down to a person possessing a certain degree of integrity. If you don’t love someone, or aren’t as committed to the relationship, you don’t cheat, you move on. You may think you are doing this person a favor or are sparing their feelings but what you are really doing is attempting to minimize your own responsibility. Not only is this attitude selfish it’s down right egotistical. Yep, that’s what I want to hear from someone that I’ve been intimate with…Hey, well I love ya, but I don’t “LOVE” you but I didn’t know how to tell you…Didn’t want to hurt your feelings…so I’ve been seeing this other broad on the side. Go ahead you dickless wonder tell me the truth and boff anyone you please! I’d prefer that any day to being made a fool. I’m sorry buddy. I just can’t agree, but then I’m often too damned honest in my relationships. I just happen to think it’s the only way to go. It might not be fun all the time but it keeps the game playing and the bullshit down to a bare minimum.
Needs2know
Though the other person who is more invested may feel you are a cheater. It’s a question of semantics and perceptions.
Don’t be too hard on ChiefScott. As an infidelity victim a couple of times in my life, I can tell you that for a person with a certain type of personality, there is no crueler thing you could do to them.
Frankly, I’m dismayed at how many of you seem to see cheating on your spouse as a tool for exploring problems within the marriage. Huh?
C’mon. Is this really something I have to articulate? I didn’t ask the preacher to turn to the “screw/make out with other people when you’re feeling unfulfilled or bad about yourself” section of the marriage manual.
I’m a little tired of that one, too.
I’m having trouble making the equation that any domestic problem or shortcoming allows someone the right to “drop the nuclear bomb” of having sex outside of their marriage. I cannot think of a single circumstance in which this would be justifiable. Not one.
Whatever problems a couple may be having reach a whole new atmosphere when someone introduces infidelity. YOU cheated. Don’t mix insult with injury and try to tie it back to me not not doing the dishes enough (or not expressing my feelings enough, or not handling money well – fill in your domestic problem here).
Infidelity is never the answer, and I have an extremely hard time believing it ever makes a relationship better. Show me someone talking that line, and I’ll show you the cheater, not the cheat-ee.
RE: Cheating being a symptom of the problems in a marriage and not the cause.
I don’t know that anybody said “any domestic problem or shortcoming allows someone the right … to have sex outside of marriage,” did they? If so, I wouldn’t agree with that position either, Milo. Nothing gives another person the “right” to do that. Neither is there an excuse for it (someone once defined an excuse to me as “The skin of a reason wrapped around a lie.”). It, like many act, is simply inexcusable.
Having said that, though, I do believe that there are reasons that infidelity occurs (I’m not giving any moral weight to the reasons, just saying that there are situations that give rise to infidelity). I do very much agree that infidelity is usually a symptom of greater problems in the marriage, and not usually the cause of problems in the marriage. It takes two committed, communicating, individuals to make a relationshiop work. If one of those individuals feels as if something in the relationship is lacking and goes looking elsewhere for it, then the infidelity is a result of the underlying problem. I don’t know that I’ve ever heard of anyone who is in a relationship where both parties are satisfied with the relationship being unfaithful. It seems to me that almost by definition infidelity comes from a greater, more underlying problem.
I know that in my case there were bigger issues with the relationship between me and my wife (issues that go way, way back in our marriage) that culminated in me being unfaithful. Again, I am not trying to make an excuse for what happened, just passing along my perspective of the whole damn, sordid, shitty, hurtful business.
I’ve said before and I’ll say again: If it’s not all about the sex, don’t make it all about the sex. Would it be any better if I had spent his life savings? Not paid the bills until all of the utilities were cut off? Not paid the rent until we were evicted? Gotten hooked on crack? Heroin? Started to drink myself into a coma every day? Neglected the kids? Deliberately alienated his friends? Made him feel as though he was never allowed to go out with his friends? Given him a curfew? Beaten up his mom?
Are any of these acceptable in a marriage? If yes, why? Is sex more important than money? Are drugs more important than sex? Are any of these more important than love?
I understand that everyone has a different point of view regarding what is and is not acceptable behavior, and what they will and will not forgive. I cannot STAND it when I am told things like:
No, I don’t. I never said “I only cheated to make my marriage better.” I cheated because I was an asshole. I’m just enormously glad that it worked out that in the end, my marriage improved as a result.
Desperately trying to get my husband to post to this thread.
There’s cool dynamics here:
If you think someone is a cheater and they know it, then they probably will become a cheater regardless if they are one, because there’s little incentive not to cheat.
On the other hand, if someone is a cheater, and they believe you unconditionally trust them even after you find out, and if they actually care, they will probably try to change.
I think the only way a cheater can change is through scenario 2. But, if they know, or at least think you won’t trust them then they won’t have enough incentive to change.
Did that make sense?
My boyfriend and I have been together for 3.5 years. In that time he has cheated on me and for a time (a year later) we “agreed to see other people” (well, it was his decision and didn’t work out so well). It was horrible for me, very painful. But–it taught us a lot about ourselves and made us examine a lot of truths about our relationship. Before you all call me crazy for staying with someone who cheated on me more than once I should point out that:
A) at the time we started dating he was 18. He is now 22. I think people do a lot of growing up in that time frame, and college is a time in your life when you are trying to figure out what relationships are and some degree of confusion is to be expected.
B) Both incidents occurred at times when we were having a lot of problems. Not an excuse but it’s easier to understand doubting a relationship when you are continually fighting.
C) he was always completely honest with me about what was going on
But yes, it did make our relationship better. It made us both appreciate the good parts that made it worth resolving the bad parts. And for the last year and a half things have never been better. I still have some trust issues but there comes a point where you have to make a decision to work through those issues or break-up. As he pointed out to me, he can’t take back the past, he can apologize for it (and has, profusely) and he can use his current actions to try and make up for it but continually bringing it up isn’t healthy for either of us.
I’ve never cheated on him, but I am not blameless in our relationship either. We all do things that hurt each other and it’s difficult to quantify emotional distress. Cheating is only one of many wrong things one person can do to another, and it should no more be regarded as insurmountable as should any hurtful action.
The problem with this is it assumes cheating is fun. Go read some of the infidelity boards out there - there’s a ton of 'em. The initial excitement is fun, but a month or two in it gets miserable. I think the biggest incentive not to cheat (after one has cheaten) is it’s one of the most painful and horrible things you can do to yourself, and almost impossible to stop.
Also being on the receiving end of a cheater… I can’t think of anything more disrespectful in a relationship or marriage. If there is lack of respect and trust, there is nothing in my eyes.
ASD - The situation is similar in a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship, but not the same as in a marriage. When you get down to the teen-age level, I believe it’s profoundly different as well.
And an essential part to infidelity is dishonesty, and you mentioned your boyfriend was always honest with you that he was cheating on you. (?) That doesn’t sound like cheating; it sounds like some kind of open relationship. (Which I don’t understand, either, but anyway …)
I am sure people can give me examples of how their relationship survived cheating and became even stronger. If in those relationships the cheat-ee contends that they are glad they experienced being betrayed, they are a better person than me. Ask every cheat-ee in a situation like that if they think or wish the relationship’s problems would have and could have been solved in a less hurtful, trust-eroding, permanently damaging way.
Hamadryad – You make my point for me. I never said all of those things were acceptible alternatives. NONE of those things is acceptible. They are all unfair. They all won’t help and will hurt. They are all WRONG.
I’m not sitting in judgement of anybody. Some truths are just universal. Leaving a bad marriage that can’t be fixed is an acceptible solution. Separating for a time to evaluate where each of you are and what you want is, too. Staying in the trenches and working and communicating is as well. Cheating isn’t. And from what I’m reading from the posters who have been unfaithful, they seem to agree, whether they realize it or not.
Well, yes, cheating in a marriage IS different, but the OP didn’t specify adultery. Also, long term cheating is different from a one night stand but both can be damaging. My boyfriend didn’t sustain an affair, he went out once or twice and hooked up with another person. Then he felt guilty about it and talked to me about it. In comparison to some of the things people have posted here I suppose it’s minor, but the fact is that I have had numerous people use the “once a cheater always a cheater” expression to me in response to his actions. I felt extremely violated and betrayed, and I considered his actions cheating (especially because one was with a long term friend of ours), so I don’t think the lack of a wedding ring necessarily invalidates my earlier comments on the fact that a cheat-ee could feel that the end result of infidelity was a stronger relationship. It’s not the cheating that improves things, but it can bring things to a head and open up lines of communication that do improve things.
I would love to live in a world wherein no one ever lied, cheated, stole, or was ever either emotionally or physically abusive to or neglectful of his or her spouse.
I think it would be just grand if every marriage contained two partners who told each other absolutely everything and never emotionally manipulated each other in any way ever ever ever.
I would be over the moon if no one ever had any hurt feelings or miscommunications in their relationships.
Unfortunately, I live on Earth.
intensely personal subject matters. and, not surprising that many have different opinions. Too bad we tend to hook up with folks with the opposite opinions, eh?
Most of my dating life, I chose guys with a “shelf life” - that is, I wasn’t looking for a long term relationship, was VERY verbal about that fact, and nearly all of them, I KNEW from the outset were not going to be of long term interest. Since I wasn’t “committed” I didn’t view cheating as an issue - I made no promises implied or otherwise.
Then, I got married. He’d cheated on me 9 months prior to our marriage (with a “friend” of mine), but swore he’d changed, blah blah blah. within a month of our marriage, he cheated again. we hadn’t been married long enough to be “having problems” that time it was “cause we worked seperate shifts”. the next time he cheated, it was “cause he was in one city on vacatation and I was home at work”, the next time he cheated, it was “cause he was out and I was home on pain pills from a work related injury”. The next time he cheated, it was “cause I hadn’t lost all the weight after our 10 lbs+ baby had been born”, the next time he cheated…
get the idea???
happily divorced today, thank you. While my ex would always tell me his moment to moment movements, it was obvious that I couldn’t believe a word of it. My current b/f (of 14 + years) never tells me where he’s going. he also would never cheat. this I know.
and, by the way, I seriously disagree with the “have to be honest with the cheatee”. If there’s a chance that they’ll find out, yea, you should tell. BUT, if there is NO chance ever, you’re only doing it to make yourself feel better (by “being honest” about your cheating), and NOT to make the other person feel better. One of the many incidents listed above, he had a One night stand with a complete stranger in a town that was 150 miles away from where we lived. He made sure to tell me about that one, too.
I guess, it’s a really individual thing. before the marriage, I hadn’t frankly thought about it much. Now, I may allow a single lapse if there had been problems, but nothing else, and it’d take a long time to re-establish trust.
Wow, wring, you really got hooked up with a bad guy. What a horrible thing to have to go through. Yours is a perfect example of a serial cheater, and one who I think probably will never reform unless he spends many, many hours in therapy.
Seems like the to tell or not to tell question differs by person as well. For me, I’ve told SO that if such a thing ever happens, I want him to tell me and I want to work it out. I don’t ever want to have such a thing lying in the depths of a relationship, rotting us from the inside. And that’s exactly what it would do to us. Not everyone’s like this, but I feel pretty strongly that I want to know if something’s up.
Why does it get painful? Because it’s exhausting to play out two roles? Or, because what you thought you wanted in person #2 isn’t really what you wanted? Or, because you found out that person #2 isn’t any better than person #1? Or some other reason?
Just curious. Nothing big.
I think for most folks (my ex not in this number) the reason it gets bad is that doing something wrong and hurtful to some one you care (d) about will actually make most caring folks feel bad.
and Athena, thanks for the thoughts, yea, he was a bad 'un, sadly, therapy didn’t help. we were BOTH going to therapists at the time (and frankly one of the reasons I didn’t leave earilier was 'cause he was “working on it” and MY ineffectual therapist never actually said anything like "and the reason you’re still with him is 'cause???..???) He’s on wife # 4 by the way.
yep, very personalized issues here. and, like I said, too bad folks don’t hook up with others who believe the same way.