Church Music: The Sacred and the Profane

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

As I compose a MPSIMS thread with GD overtones, I present the following disclaimer: I apoligize if this has been done before. A quick search failed to turn up conclusive results.

I attend a church that is struggling with the whole issue of modernization. Gone are the days of singing from dusty old hymn books while Myrtle plays the organ. Instead we sing modern praise & worship choruses along with a rock band, with the lyrics shone upon a giant screen with the help of PowerPoint®.

My denomination as a whole is also struggling with this issue of modernization. Some individual churches (like mine) are going full-modern; some are taking it one step at a time; and others are fighting it tooth and nail.

Many old-timers in my denomination consider modern praise & worship choruses “insipid little ditties” and weep openly for the majesty of ancient hymns such as How Great Thou Art and A Mighty Fortress is Our God.

And then there’s the old-school Catholics, with their Latin recitations, Gregorian chants, and other trappings of veneration.

While I’m by no means an old-timer, I sometimes sit in church wanting more. Make no mistake: I’m as moved as the next guy by a rousing chorus of Shout to the Lord. But it certainly lacks the spiritual punch of, say, Pie Jesu. I almost feel as if our worship leader expects me to approach God as if He’s my “bud.” On some level, it’s as if we’ve traded reverence and solemnity for enthusiasm and uplifting.

Oftentimes I leave my church wondering whether I’ve truly spent an hour with God.

Do any of you other believers struggle with these same issues? Or am I out in left field here?

Also, to my Catholic friends: for all of my disagreements with Roman Catholicism, you guys have got reverence and solemnity down pat. I congratulate you.

And to my atheist & non-Christian friends: do you find spiritual music moving on a strictly emotional level? That is, does Charlotte Church singing Pie Jesu bring you to tears, even though you don’t identify with what she’s singing about?

2

Long time left-fielder here, then. :slight_smile:

I don’t feel comfortable in more Pentacostal churches, with Rock Bands and “Hellfire and Damnation” preaching. Mainly because I keep hearing MacBeth’s lines echoing in my head “Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing…”.

Now, some people are comfortable with Worshiping to a Heavy Metal beat. Fine, more power to them. I don’t, yet I also gag when churches sink themselves into so much ritual that the service leaves you feeling dusty.

I prefer the middle, some ritual, yet relaxed enough to know that it’s okay to take the earplugs out.

3

Yes, of course. Good music is good music, whether it’s written for the Greater Glory of an Anthropomorphic Paternalistic God or in honor of your hounddog Blue. I happen to be listening to Elgar’s Dream of Gerontius on the 'puter CD player at the moment.

As to spiritual music proper, J.S. Bach was a very devout man; Mozart much less so but still a Believer; Janacek was an out-and-out atheist. All of them wrote moving and luminous church music.

4

My church is full of old ladies and grown-ups. File us under fighting tooth and nail. Ancient hymns. Maybe a few children, and not too many teenagers. I think I might be the only one…and I don’t go that often…And no youth group.

My Christian college has 2 forms of service. One is chapel. This is a normal churchy service, with psalm singing and stuff. The other is convocation. This has a praise group, and lots of not so churchy stuff.

I also went to a friend’s Wednesday service last week. The youth pastor was doing what you described, witht he overhead and stuff.

I listen to Christian cds. (Not ALL the time, but I have about 4, and some songs on Napster.)

My opinion? With modernization, churches are trying to reach a younger generation. But they might lose the older ones. Modernization is better suited to youth groups. Church should have psalms and “Blest be the tie that Binds”, etc. But just because you have modern music in church doesn’t mean you didn’t spend it with God. Praise him with your mouth, your heart, etc.

And yes, modern Christian music uplifts me. I’ll be cruising in my car to “Love, Liberty and Disco” by the Newsboys and feel really happy.

[sub]Disclaimer: Written under the influence of Trading my Sorrows by Delerious[/sub]

5

I know it’s a major issue in my parents’ church.

As for me, I believe the filter of time is a good thing. What I hear being called modern isn’t really modern or rock, more “I am the tree blowing with the wind” 60’s type folk music (played on electric guitars) and I generally hate that kind of stuff. Also, so frequently, the modernish music is just, well, bad music. The lyrics don’t rhyme, scan, or make much sense (just sort of reference God every so often.) There is no melody (there’s something to be said for something that’s catchy and/or hummable). And what there is of one is unsingable by untrained singers. And you can tell by listening to the congregation struggle along to the song - when you can hear them over the band.

In theory, I think that playing various styles and types of music is a great idea. In practice…

6

Oh, yes. Church music is the only thing I miss about the Christian church. To this day my knees go weak for anything in Latin. Their theology might totally squick me but I’ll give them that they know how to write a damn hymn.

I’m trying to find good Pagan songs but it’s a tough row to hoe.

7

Oh, yes. Church music is the only thing I miss about the Christian church. To this day my knees go weak for anything in Latin. Their theology might totally squick me but I’ll give them that they know how to write a damn hymn.

I’m trying to find good Pagan songs but it’s a tough row to hoe.

8

There’s the rub, my young friend. If modernization brings butts into the seats, especially the butts of a younger generation, I’m all for it. You’ll never hear me complain that butts in the seats is a bad thing.

The problem is, this generation raised in a modern church may grow up without appreciating, or even understanding the need for, reverence and solemnity. That’s why I think we need to find a balance of some kind.

Ugh. Maybe I should start attending Mass on Saturday nights.

9

Well, I’m a church-going atheist (don’t ask, it’s a family thing.) The only thing I really miss about the Presbyterian church I grew up in is the music. If I have to listen to it, please let it be one of the grand old hymns. Preferably written pre-1800 by one of the big guns. Bach, Haydn, those guys.

The Catholic church we attend uses a “modern” hymnbook full of the most uninspiring songs I’ve ever heard. Maybe we should start going to the Portuguese mass.

10

Yeah, so does mine – plus the choir is terrible and I’m convinced the music director thinks he’s Joan Baez. :eek:

The stuff we used to sing at school masses was better – the pastoral team people went to great trouble to pick out decent music so that people would sing. (They didn’t anyway, but it was a good thought.)

11

Track down a book (if you can) called Why Catholics Can’t Sing. It will have you in stitches about the evolution of liturgical music.

12

Am I the ONLY one who likes the newer Praise & Glory stuff? Like matt, the only thing I miss about being Christian is the singing and the music. And I’ve sung the “newer” stuff for 7 years.

Half the time I think I should just go back to church so I can sing again, even if I don’t believe. :frowning:

13

Well, I have to tell you, the Mass that I attend (6:00PM Sunday) is geared to the younger group. Unlike the “touchy-feely” Masses that were popular when I was in high school, this Mass has a rock-type band and tends to play the newer music.

For the more traditional crowd, the early morning Masses have the solemn music. And there’s a parish on the west side of town that does Latin Masses every Sunday.

Catholic’s aren’t as unhip as we once were. :wink:

14

Well, matt_mcl, why don’t you try writing some? You could be the Wesley or the Baring-Gould of your movement.

15

Just like Lsura’s church, the last Catholic church I attended regularly had a saturday evening Mass for the ‘younger’ crowd, and sunday Mass was for the older, traditional dyed-in-the-wool-you’ll-get-my-scapular-when-you-pry-it-from-my-cold-dead-hands crowd.

I like some of the newer stuff, I like grapevine church music (one that comes immediately to mind is “Our God is an Awesome God”, but only when done with the right minor chords) but I love love love the old stuff. Give me a requiem by Faure or Mozart, in Latin, over just about anything else.

Another song that comes to mind, of the newer ones, is “Lord of the Dance”. To the tune of Appalachian Spring, and before that silly Irish bunt got ahold of it and started dancing to it. I love that one.

Ginger

16

The song “Lord of the Dance” isn’t quite as new as you might think.

The words were written by Sydney Carter in 1963 - pre-Beatles!

The tune (which Copland used) is from the Shaker hymn “Simple Gifts”, written by Elder Joseph Brackett, Jr. in 1848.

http://www.freep.com/fun/music/qshaker11.htm

17

Yes, it would be nice, except that I can’t write music :slight_smile:

But, I have adapted some OTHER people’s music… (You call it plagiarism; I call it the folk process.) For example, I adapted the Wyrd Sisters’ fabulous Solstice hymn for Imbolc. Wasn’t viciously difficult.

18

matt, you could try collaboration. Lots of folks can’t write music but they CAN write words. Sabine Baring-Gould,(whom I mentioned in the earlier post) wrote the words to “Onward Christian Soldiers” but Arthur Sullivan(as in Gilbert and Sullivan) wrote the music. And you said plagiarism like it’s a BAD thing. Lots of hymn writers used folk tunes already familiar to their listeners, just to get people singing.

19

What I meant, zgystardst, is that it’s not one of the “old” hymns, like big ol’ organ thundering around and waking the neighbours. I recognize that it’s been around for awhile. Thanks for the info, though, I didn’t know that the music came from a Shaker hymn; although upon reading the info at the URL you posted, I recall singing it when I was younger.
No, I’m not a Shaker. But I was raised in a Charismatic household.

Ginger

20

LOL, I am an agnostic/new ager who regularly attends a Christian Youth Group, and it’s like mandatory that at least once a session the in house Christian rock band plays that song.

The band is Menudo style, it always keeps the same name, but they replace members regularly as the seniors graduate and don’t come to youth group any more. This means that the instruments represented often changes, making for a more interesting experience.

Sing it with me now… Shout to the Lord all the earth let us sing/power and majesty/praise to the King!

Lucky Charms (Formerly MarxBoy)