…can you explain what part of this post (that was in response to a poster who was continually and willfully mis-gendering a public figure) that was posted before the mod note was posted, crossed what line? How exactly was it jerkish?
And while I’m here: based on past rulings by the Straight Dope staff (deliberately) misgendering somebody isn’t considered inherently jerkish. Can we get that revisited?
I have to agree, I did a search on the thread, and @Banquet_Bear did not make any other posts to @Little_Nemo after the mod note–a mod note that seemed to apply to both posters, as @Little_Nemo was being just as hateful.
The Warning in question specifically claims that the problematic behavior happened after the Mod Note, and heavily implies it happened after @urbanredneck2’s Warning. Yet that appears to be factually inaccurate.
The post being quoted as the one that was the last straw resulting in the Warning was made before the Mod Note.
I was notified of this thread apparently because my name was in it.
I was not aware I had come across as hateful in that thread. This was not my intent. I disagreed with some of the things that were said but I did not intend to convey hate towards anyone.
puzzlegal issued the note, Chronos issued urbanredneck’s warning, and What_Exit issued Banquet_Bear’s warning. With 177 posts and a different moderator behind each action it may well have been a mistake.
This has been a running theme with this particular mod. He also gave me a warning (or “note” as he put it) for defending myself against someone also saying transphobic things. Don’t expect anything to be done about it.
I’m at the point where I just try to stay away from any threads dealing with transgender/non-binary issues now (as much as I love that Elliot Page has become a part of our community), because what’s the point if someone can repeatedly misgender me and vilify trans/enby people and I can’t do anything about it.
I’ve just come to accept that this forum is trash when it comes to us, and it doesn’t look like that’s going to change anytime soon…
If you are taking about thread in ATMB that was closed, that wasn’t a warning; it was a Note. Nothing on your permanent record. He realized the thread was getting a bit out of hand, said he realized you were responding to posts, but there’s nothing to rescind for a Note.
I didn’t care about if it was or wasn’t on my permanent record, that wasn’t my point. My point was that when transpeople or our allies defend ourselves, we tend to be the ones who get a talking to while they get a pass. It’s the pattern of one-sided moderation against us. It’s why I feel the moderators here never have our interests in mind and would rather us just go away so we stop making trouble by pointing out bigotry.
We definitely don’t want you to go away! Just report instead of responding in thread.
I wanted to clarify that since you said it was a warning- well, it wasn’t. He called it a note because that’s what it was. Notes are often just reminders of the rules, not punishment.
Thank you for clarifying, but I didn’t need anything clarified. It has nothing to do with the larger issues on this board that I’ve been talking about and subsequently been ignored. I feel like the mods here always try to change the subject, as you did.
Even when I brought this up personally with What_Exit, and how I don’t want to stay around here if things don’t change, his response was “Ok sorry, goodbye and good luck.” No desire from him to change things, just if you don’t like it, bye.
Even if they were “flouncing”, an appropriate response given the circumstances would have been “No, don’t go, We’ll do better.” Not effectively “Cheers, don’t let the door hit you on the way out.”
There was more to it than that. It was a series of messages back and forth. You’re making guesses at what happened. Can you possibly fathom it might not be so cut and dry? I have been trying, but clearly not enough. I’ve got people on all sides of the debate angry at me, so that’s fun. Woo Hoo.
That’s a mod rite of passage, I think. You’ve spent a lot of time in ATMB which suggests to me that you actually care and are willing to listen, FWIW. I know how hard it can be to feel personally about an issue but not have other moderators on board. This issue specifically came up for me as an example. I advocated as well as I could within the limits placed upon me. But I figured it was better for there to be one trans ally in the bunch rather than zero. (I don’t actually know how many of the mods at the time considered themselves trans allies, I just remembered a “how is this not hate speech?” conversation where I met resistance.)
It’s not even contentious issues where this happens. I would get PMs “so and so is an obvious troll and should be banned” but we only banned people by moderator consensus so if other mods weren’t on board there’s not a whole hell of a lot I could do. Yet it was always personalized like I was singlehandedly to blame for not banning that guy.
I say this without resentment. It was just an annoying part of the job.
I’m responding specifically to just what you said in your own post - how you responded to a poster you perceived as “flouncing” (your choice of wording, not mine).
FTR, I think you’re a wonderful addition to the mod pool, and am certainly more than happy that you have space to make mistakes. I just think when you do make them, they should be pointed out. My post wasn’t a pitting of you, just a criticism of that particular action. I am not angry at all.
It seems to me that this is part due to the inability to specify that this is what occurs. Since the mods have this apparent policy of presenting a single face on these issues, it always appears like the mod that actually says something is speaking for themselves and the mods. As far as I can understand, you can’t say “I agree this is hate speech, but the other mods won’t get on board. I’ll keep trying to get them to take the issue seriously.”
Basically, since each mod acts at times like the public face for the mods in general, sometimes negative feelings towards the mods gets personalized to the spokesperson.
For the record, I never had any problem with you as a mod, and think that @What_Exit is also an excellent mod. I think they’ve made some mistakes in wording, but have done a good job in listening.
(And if you wonder why I’ve not replied in the trans thread, there are two reasons: the first is that I’ve noticed in the past that my overinvolvement often seems to hijack ATMB threads and result in nothing being done. The second is that my past history has shown that, when I speak up for things like this, I often get hateful replies, and I have enough on my plate with real life issues to not want to deal with that.
For both of thest reasons, as long as it seems I have other people fighting the fight, I’m more willing to take a backseat. And if you want to see my position on what counts as transphobia, see the Troll Pit thread and my recent comment on that subject. There I didn’t have to worry about breaking any rules.)