As others have said, it’s most likely not about him being an atheist, but rather about him feeling stressed and angry at the situation. And bearing that in mind, I want to respond specifically to this:
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You still shouldn’t assume what his sister thinks. She may well be an atheist also, but one who considers “You’re in my prayers” to be, as Malthus said, “the religious person’s version of saying ‘you have all my sympathy’.” And it may also be the case that she’s more mature than her brother, or at least, better at handling crisis.
My mom was deeply religious, as were many of her friends and family. When she was dying a few years ago, I was constantly told we were being prayed for. Some folks were really just offering sympathy; others, I’m certain, genuinely believed they could help cure her cancer. I accepted all of it graciously, because I knew they meant well. But it was indeed a little frustrating to hear it over and over, especially from those who believed it would actually do something, when I knew all too well that my mom was terminal and beyond help, and I was struggling to impress this upon my father, who was in denial about the gravity of the situation and was pushing for aggressive treatment (that was painful, exhausting, and time-consuming) rather than palliative care, right up until the end.
The bottom line is, death is awful. Some can handle it better than others, but no one handles it well all the time. There’s no right thing to say to someone who’s grieving, and a plethora of wrong things, and they’ve probably heard most of them. It’s entirely possible the son might have lashed out at you no matter what you said, or that he (or the daughter, for that matter) might have reacted differently on a different day. So please try not to take it personally, and please don’t consider his behavior in this one instance as representative of all atheists all the time.
Is that an attempt to make someone want a fake limb?
I think the upshot for me is that when you don’t know what the other person believes, saying something about prayer is fairly presumptuous. Even if a person really intends to pray, why say it unless you expect some sort of recognition for it?
Obviously, if you know the person is wired that way, pray away and tell them you’re doing it. But when you don’t know, it’s like saying, “Oh, hai, I’m RELIGIOUS.”
I know that Christians in the US often aren’t used to being around non-Christians and never give a second’s thought to such things, but I think it’s about time everyone started.
My problem with saying things like “I’ll keep you in my thoughts” vs “You’re in my prayers” is to me, it feels like I’m hiding my religion. I don’t like feeling like it’s something I should hide. So I kind of combine them. My reflexive platitude is “My thoughts and prayers are with you and yours”, I’ll use that unless I KNOW that the person wouldn’t appreciate such sentiment. But I don’t really know anyone who wouldn’t appreciate it. I hang in social circles consisting of either Christians or agnostics/light atheists. And people know me. I don’t hide my Christianity any more than an openly gay person hides their sexuality. I don’t try to convert, but I’m upfront and honest about who I am. So anybody I give these platitudes to will know that they are coming from a good place.
My problem with “Is there something I can do?” is that I HATED to hear that when my father was dying. To me, it felt like someone was asking to be assigned a task. Like I was now required to give them something to do. And I know what they were really saying was “I sypathize, and if you need anything, feel free to ask.” So I said, “No, thank you” every time because I was thankful that they cared. When grief is near, it’s nice to know people care.
I’ll be the first person to admit I’m in a lousy mood today, but if you just compared being Christian in the US to being gay, just stop. Not talking about your religion all the time isn’t “hiding” it.
If a Hindu offered prayers in like circumstances to a Christian, no doubt some Christians would get all pissy about it. Others would not. Guess who I would consider to be reacting more reasonably.
So when someone said that to you, "I will make a voodoo doll of you and bless it ", your feeling would be “Well, that’s awfully kind, what a nice person.”?
I’m in generally in favour of people not taking offence where none was intended. Why CREATE social awkwardness and bad feelings out of nothing? Would you approve of a Christian taking offence if a Hindu sincerely offered her prayers in like circumstances ?
I disagree with the notion that people saying it generally want some sort of recognition. I’m not religious myself, but I think that is simply an incorrect characterization of their motives, based admittely on ancedote - that is, knowing many religious folks.
And I don’t think that saying “my prayers are with you” is “talking about it all the time”. But my reflexive saying is to say that, because being a Christian is a big part of who I am.
Growing up in my social circle I felt a lot of pressure to hide my religion. It was a big part of me, and everytime I mentioned it to someone, I got ridiculed for my ‘ridiculous’ beliefs. So I rarely talked about it, and by the time I left high school, my closest friends didn’t know I was Christian. But I wanted people to know. I wanted to talk about it. And a few years ago, I finally decided to let people know. I didn’t make a big deal out of it, nor do I bring it up in every conversation. And I was shocked at how easily some of my friends were willing to discuss religion with me. For the first time in my life, I didn’t have to hide that part of myself from everybody.
That’s as far as my comparison goes. I’m not equating being Christian to being gay in every way, shape and form. Sorry if the caparison felt out of line for you.
Well, sure. I myself don’t believe in any religion, but I believe very strongly in accepting that of others - as long, of course, as they have good motives and aren’t trying to force me to believe whatever they believe.
To give an anecdote: many years ago I was in Tibet as part of a cultural exchange project. While there, a group of us Canadians visited a monastery. As it turns out, we were there on a very significant day in their religious calender, and they were doing a ritual in which pilgrims were lining up to have their heads stuck (by two burly monks) into a hole in the base of a statue of a very ugly demon-faced creatue. Apparently, this was some sort of protective figure.
As foreign visitors, the monks politely invited us to participate. It never occurred to me not to do so. I don’t believe in their religion - heck I don’t even know much about it, other than the iconography - but they seemed good sorts, at least they were friendly to me, so who cares if they apparently worship some sort of demons?
Similarly with your voodoo doll. Presumably it is not being offered out of malice, so who cares?
Yes, to the extent I “approve” of anyone taking offense, I’m an equal opportunity offense supporter. When you insist on putting your views out there, be prepared for someone to think you’re a dick for making it all about you when they are grieving.
And yes, it people making it about them. See the above “hiding” commentary. It isn’t about just being kind, it’s about saying something identifiable.
Heck, we’ve had people on this board respond to atheists in trouble by saying things like, “Well, I don’t care if you don’t want me to pray for you, I’ll pray for you.”
It reminds me of the chivalry thread where people want to do exactly the “respectful” and “polite” things that they want to do, and they’ll get mad at you if you don’t think it’s actually respectful or polite.
If you’re allegedly doing things for other people, have a thought that those other people are actual people, with their own beliefs and likes. If you’re not trying to do anything for those other people, don’t masquerade as if you are.
Sorry you had the ‘praying for healing’ folks. I remember my dad going to church meetings while he had terminal cancer, and a lot of folks said that they would pray for him to get better. And my dad, also a deeply religious man, said “I don’t want healing. I want peace.”. He knew he wasn’t long for this world, and he wanted to gain some measure of peace with that. He wanted to have the courage to say all the things to his loved ones that he wanted to, to let go of old grudges, to be ready to die. Religious people don’t have a much better grasp of that than non-religous people, in my experience.
See, if someone was repeately going on about praying where it wasn’t wanted, or knowing that the grieving person was an atheist made a BIG DEAL about going on about religion and prayer, I’d agree. They would, in those circumstances, be acting like dicks.
But, that being said, it isn’t the facts we were given in the OP, and it is kinda the very definition of unreasonable to act as if every example was the worst-case scenario, and treat X for the failings of Y.
Allegedly the OP was giving the cookies. And offering prayers isn’t ‘telling you about religion’. It’s a mere expression of sympathy in religious form.
Everyone (well, almost everyone) hates having Jehovah’s Witnesses come to the door trying to convert them, or having some religious fanatic button-hole them to blather on about their beliefs when they can’t conveniently escape.
To me, that’s what I think of when I think of an unwelcome “telling about the religion”. It’s annoying.
I don’t think feeling the same annoyance when someone says they will pray for someone is at all reasonable, where there was no intent to offend. Again, it seems silly to treat all expressions of religiosity the same.
Yes, because it’s actually a fairly common word in religion threads and you always spell it as if there’s a prosthetic somewhere. I also remember the people who can’t spell “aren’t” and can’t open/close parentheses, if that makes you feel better.
And offering prayers isn’t ‘telling you about religion’. It’s a mere expression of sympathy in religious form.
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