Well said, Max!
I have but one quibble:
I don’t care if Iraq became a paradise tomorrow, I would still think Bush did the wrong thing. Nothing could possibly justify the lives, money, and international goodwill flushed down the toilet by this colossal blunder.
I agree. I don’t know what’s so classy or gracious about the OP. It reeks of sour grapes and back-handedness.
*And you will have to live with the consequences.
I’m going to watch for the next four years. And I do not want to hear any whimpers from the Bushites when Bush raises taxes to pay for his wars, when the environment becomes more degraded, and when your relatives are drafted to fight in Iran and Syria, or possibly North Korea. Don’t act betrayed when you lose your jobs to outsourcing or when the retaliatory suicide bombings start here in the US. You asked for it. It will be yours.*
I agree. That’s why I haven’t joined in the chorus congratulating him for his post. Kind of like, “Wel, you guys won fair and square, I hope you can live with the consequences.”
Not really all that gracious, but then again considering what a bitter pill it must have been for gobear to swallow, it was an admirable attempt nonetheless.
No, Lib, not “sour grapes”. Sour grapes is when you act as if you didn’t want it in the first place: “Kerry would have sucked anyway”. Re-read your Aesop.
I’m just not throwing a tantrum. I’m shaking your hand, but also warning you that you made a big mistake, more of a “Forgive them, Father, they know not what they do.”
I nevr said I wasn’t mad, in fact, write the reverse, “I’m furious.” See, Dogg Knees is throwing tantrums, swearing, calling you cheaters, and I’m not. you won, fair and square. It’s your victory. But given that your side helped pass blegal discrimination in several states that had no other purpose than to trample over the civil rights of gay people, don’t expect me to be glad Bush won, because I’m not. You made the wrong choice.
If we’re going to borrow Greek literary allusions, Lib, just call me Cassandra.
No, it was right the first time. He hasn’t really been president. He’s been squatting for the last four years.
And now, since I refuse to congratulate Bush supporters in a “classy” fashion, I will be on my way.
It’s not over yet, but the races already decided are disastrous enough. Solid Republican majorities in both houses; passage of every anti-civil rights amendment presented. (Mississippi passed its anti-gay-marriage act by 92%. Except for the occasional good individual who escaped, has that fucking state every contributed anything to the world?)
I think what’s appalled me most are otherwise reasonable people who acknowledge that Bush has been a terribly bad president in every single domestic area, yet voted for him because they believe that somehow he’ll be the more effective man for dealing with international terrorism. (Ed Koch, for example.) Because – and I almost gag when I hear this, “I think he’ll keep us safer.”
Even if this were true, which it isn’t… when the fuck did we turn into a nation of pussies? If you’re really willing to put some illusion of “safety” ahead of civil rights, the environment, the economy, social services, education, health care, a sane energy policy, a sane foreign policy, and sanity in general – just go have yourself locked up in solitary confinement, surrounded by armed guards, so you can be “safe” and the rest of us can work on getting the country back in shape. Sheesh.
Dark days ahead. What a giant step backwards for the country. I predict a big backlash in the midterms, but, if the flying monkey from the Wizard of Oz actually does get a second term, the amount of lasting damage he’s yet to do is staggering. What do you think the Supreme Court will look like in a few years? They’ve been keeping Ashcroft under wraps the past few months; what do you think that fascist prick has waiting for us after the election?
And Diogenes – remember, Bush isn’t Hitler. Cheney is Hitler, so we’d better hope Bush stays healthy. (Bush deserves a bullet in the brain if he really did decide to go to war for political reasons, but I’m going to reluctantly stick to my normal anti-assassination policy.)
My fear is that we actually get the leaders we deserve.
I agree with gobear.
I can be seething with rage if I lose a sports game, but at the end of the day, I shake their hands and be done with it.
Now, I’m not happy Bush is now in a position to control all three branches of the Federal government, but it seems pointless to bring it up now. My whining on this board will only earn me enemies and re-convince the convinced.
So let’s try to be civil, shall we? I mean, discourse is fine, but name-calling is juvenile.
My hand? I voted against Bush, you dolt. I’m the only one here who’s consistently accused him of outright tyranny. I know you tried and failed to pin me as a Bush supporter, but I proved you wrong on that. If you want to be gracious, own up to that fact. Otherwise, keep your condescending hand to yourself. As for your “they know not what they do” bullshit, see this post.
I’m glad you voted against him. It seemed to me that you were in ahurry to curry favor with the victors, but no matter. And “dolt”–have I stooped to name-calling? No, nor shall I.
If you didn’t vote for Bush, then this thread was not addressed to you, was it?
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That’s a good post with valid, insightful criticisms. There’s no question that the Dems need to recapture the center, but that doesn’t make Bush any more of a competent leader. But in a sense I’m glad he won because all the blowback from his first term will hit him in his second.
You didn’t even read the post. Gah. Recapture the center? Fucking hell. They need to recapture the extreme fight for liberty. It was Goldwater who was the liberal when he said, “Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice.”
This is more important than a sports game. It’s even (gasp!) more important than the outcome of Survivor.
Look, I may lose the right in the next couple of years to make my own medical decisions regarding my body. I may lose the right to take out certain books from the library, stage a peaceful protest of a Bush speech, or state my beliefs on a public blog. My phone may be wiretapped without my permission. (This is no mere tinfoil hattery. Have any Pubs here actually read the Patriot Act in its entirety? I’m just scratching the surface.) Considering this, I think I, Diogenes, and all the other angry liberals here have every single right in the world to be pissed off. We’re losing things we care about, just like you’d (conservatives in general) be losing things you cared about if Kerry was elected. Maybe he shouldn’t have brought it into this thread (since it’s “classy”) but his anger is justifiable. And come on, how classy was Muad’Dib’s thread? “Nyah, nyah, we won, in your face.” How many people don’t believe that had Kerry won, Pubs would have been poking their noses in the Dem threads saying “well, have fun killing babies, you fags.”
Other people can shake hands and play nice all they want, but I think it’s time to de-niceify (not a word, I know) the left. The American left needs to fight back, and hard. Otherwise, we’ll just have string after string of fundie right-wingers interspersed with a few stray Southern moderate Dems. As long as we continue to play nice, we’ll just see our country pulled farther and farther to the right.
They play dirty. So should we. Don’t shake a Bush voter’s hand, spit on his shoes. It’s the new American left!
Yeah, looks like Bush won this one. He won it fair and square. Now that the Red Sox have won, looks like I’ll have to turn to the Democrats for my full measure of heartbreak and futility. Of course, the Yankees never started any pointless wars.
The American people have chosen, and they have chosen poorly.
I can almost understand choosing Bush, but the rampant homophobia of the of the electorate truly sickens and depresses me. Fuck them. Fuck the Democrats for not fighting them, but letting the GOP act as if they were. And most of all, fuck each and every politician of *any * party to support these amendments. We should be ashamed of ourselves for living in a country where this could happen. We’ll be apologizing for this day in decades to come. High School History teachers will talk about it in the same breath as slavery and Japanese internment as a bad thing America used to do, but we’re better now. At least I hope so. Yesterday, I wouldn’t have needed to added that disclaimer.
Fuck.
I understand your anger and for the most part, I agree with it. I don’t think a call to arms is all that necessary, though. Bush was hated by many, but he got out his base because (and this is only supposition, mind you, so don’t take it as anything but my opinion) of their hatred for the left. You know, JFK’s a liberal. JFK’s out of the mainstream. None of it was particularly true, but it worked because the left was essentially demonized.
The counterattack should not be to demonize them back. In a pure numbers game, the conservatives have control in this country, in every sense of the word. We can’t just be Red Vs. Blue, because Blue will lose. We have to maintain the ideal that policy is a major factor in a voter’s mind. It may cost us a few elections (and a few rough years), but I’d rather this generation not be looked at as the beginning of the end because of the venom on both sides.
I’d like to congratulate Bush on his victory. Though not overwhelming, it was a clear victory.
The Democratic Party is in the wilderness, and should use the opportunity to take stock, to think hard about what we stand for, what we have to offer America, and how to communicate that to the American people in the future.
I take some solace in the fact that in typically schizophrenic Colorado fashion, this state has elected a Democratic U.S. Senator, taken a Republican House seat, and seized control of both houses of a Republican state legislature. All this while giving the President 53% of the vote. Go figure.
New?
But gobear - we, and I, appreciate your thoughts. One of the most difficult, and important, roles in politics is that of the loyal opposition. Oppose Bush all you like, but remain loyal to America, and you will have much to be proud of.
Regards,
Shodan
As a very proud descendant of Scotland lineage, could you confirm this feeling amongst your brethren? I may have to deny the line and claim full Irish blood.
Either that, or I’ll concern myself more with my own country’s leader.
Can I use this as a sig line? (seriously, just say yes)
All the provisional ballots must be processed and counted as appropriate. That said.
Bush is obviously the choice of the majority of Americans. I only hope that people who voted for Bush have better judgement than I do, the wisdom of crowds and all that. He should have a very friendly congress and no doubt by the end of his term can guarantee that the SCOTUS will be at least as conservative (or whatever) as it is now for a good long time.
So good luck Mr. Bush. Good luck to all of us.
Good work gobear. You just shot up another notch on my appreciation meter.
I nearly just coughed up my cream of wheat.