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Esprix
So what if, like me for the past two days and quite probably today too, you have to get up at 7am to get to work for 9am AND you then work until midnight, eventually getting to bed about 1am? What about us?
Where’s our 16-hour beauty sleep?
pan
This isn’t a NORMAL work day though. Right?
One point, and believe me, I AM a night owl. I wonder about the priority that sleep plays in the daily life of a night owl vs. the priority of sleep of a morning person. I wouldn’t be suprised if sleep was valued more highly in night owls. We say we get the same amount of wake time. I think it’s true, but when you do sleep for 10-12 hours at a time, how do we say that we spend the same amount of wake time as a morning person? Well it’s like this… You aren’t limited to 24 hours necessarily, especially on your days off. Some people have different sleep rhythms. I took a hiatus for 4 months and blocked off all the light streaming into my apartment. So it looked like night inside my apartment at noon. Eventually over a period of time I came to the point of what I believe is my normal sleep rhythm: 10 hours of sleep then 20 hours of wake time. That’s 30 hours total: but at a “normal” ratio of 2:1. Of course that’s 6 more hours than the average day, so bedtime would be different from day to day. It doesn’t make living a “normal” life easy, but I think this experiment proves a point. Everybody has a different sleep rhythm. I’d bet big money that most “normal” people’s true sleep rhythm isn’t 8 hours of sleep and 16 hours of wake time.
Now when forced to conform to the 24 hour day, I would rather spend my wake time at night. I can get more work done. There are fewer distractions. It’s quieter and more peaceful at night. Unfortunately, there aren’t many good paying jobs that let you work at night.
Me too. When I have no reason to be up on any schedule, I tend to go to sleep and wake up about 2 hours later each day.
Bathhouse?
I went camping once at a place that had those. It was weird. I’m used to camping meaning wandering off into the woods in the mountains, shitting behind trees, and coming home several days later smelling like smoke.
I’m not grumpy in the mornings. I’m just not awake. It takes a huge effort for me to get out of bed if it’s morning. It’s just the way I’m wired. I’ve always been this way. I have to get up these days at 7am to get my son ready for school. For this reason, I usually take an afternoon nap. Once I go to bed, I’ll probably still be awake for a few hours reading a book–so going to bed at 2 means getting to sleep around 4 or 5. Then getting up at 7.
I have a fan on in winter, too. I can’t sleep well without moving air. I am sooo with you on the cold thing.
Wow, there really has been some hostility in here, hasn’t there? Luckily, Esprix as usual, replied with aplomb and dignity. A few points that I’d like to make:
As an early riser, I absolutely cannot understand how some people can sleep so much. Respect it, yes, understand it, no way. If I’m in bed past 8am, even on weekends, it’s unusual. My wife however, can sleep easily till 10 or 11. The only problem that I have with this arrangement, is that if I get up in the morning to go get breakfast or something, she’ll follow me soon after…then want to cuddle up and fall asleep on top of me as I try to sit and watch my morning cartoons. I love her to death, but it’s really not all that comfortable to have you laying all over me. Means I can’t get up and get something else when I want it, and end up sitting there bored, with my hip going numb, waiting for her to wake up…again.
But I could never imagine going into the bedroom if she was still sleeping, and bugging her to get up. What the hell do I care if she sleeps an extra couple of hours, as long as I don’t have to stay in the bed. I have had houseguests that were late sleepers, and I’ll say that it drove me nuts. As the host, I try to ensure that my guest are comfortable, and be courteous to their needs. So I get up, and try to stay extremely quiet until they rise. However, after I’ve been up for 2 hours, I feel that I can start moving around normally, without worrying about making noise.
I think what **msmith537 ** is talking about are those roommates that require everyone around them to be quiet when they are trying to sleep later. If you’re working second shift or something, that’s one thing, if you’re staying up at night to play online games or something, then I’m going to have a little less sympathy. I had a roommate like that once…used to stay out late playing D&D games with some of his friends…no problem, but don’t expect me to not function in the morning, because you stayed up late.
I think Rick’s anger was directed at a lot of the posters that seemed to be saying “Don’t talk to me in the office before I’ve had coffee” and “How rude is it of them to talk before I’ve woken up”. I personally can’t see how the hell you could get to work, and not be “woken up”, but hey, to each his own. However, that doesn’t mean that I’ll keep a mental database on whom to say good morning to, and who not to. (forgive me if I’m mis-representing what you said Rick). As a default, I’m going to say good morning to everyone…and if I got surly treatment from a co-worker, or no response at all, I probably would chalk that person up to being an ass. Common courtesy really isn’t that difficult. And if for some reason, you really can’t function until that hour and a half after you get up, then perhaps I could suggest that you get up a bit earlier, so that you’re functioning by the time you get to work. As for housemates that were this way? That’s fine…if you’re living with someone, it’s a bit different. I cut way more slack to someone in their home, than I do in a work setting.
My mother in law used to sleep through her alarms. And since she set it for 4 am, knowing that it would take her until 5am to get up, the rest of us in the house would then be awake at the same hour. Listening to her hit the damn snooze button over and over. I don’t really understand that either. If you’re the type to roll over and hit the button and not remember doing it, then put the clock on the other side of the room, so you have to physically get out of bed to turn it off. And then just don’t get back in bed…go get your shower…eat some breakfast…whatever. But for the love of god, just because you can’t hear the damn thing going off, or can sleep through it, that doesn’t mean that everyone else can.
And for the poster that mentioned thier spouse pouring coffee in them to make sure they got up and to work? God bless that person, because there is no way that I would ever have married someone that required that much…well…babying. Sick? Different work shift? Baby keeping you up all night? worked late on a project? All Fine. Me having to regularly prode you to get up so that you won’t be late for your job? No way. You’re a responsible adult now. If your “internal clock” is set so that you can’t wake up in the morning, then by all means, find a damn job that let’s you come in late. But I’m sure I wouldn’t marry someone that I’d have to play human alarm clock to for the rest of our lives. In all honesty, kudos to your SO for being able to do that for you.
If you’re up all night working the night shift or partying and you come home to sleep, out of common courtesy I’d be as quiet as possible until a reasonable hour (e.g 10am or 11am). After that, you’re starting to impose on my freedom to enjoy my own house. Me being diurnal and all. So while I won’t go barging in your room (that’s rude at any hour) and demanding you get the hell out of bed, I’d expect you not to be ticked that I’m running a vacuum at noon.
Common courtesy.
Esprix, can you understand any of your family’s concern? Doesn’t 16 freakin’ hours seem a little excessive? If your son was in his 30’s and sleeping 16 hours a day on the weekends, wouldn’t you question whether some of that time could be better spent?
I can’t question the period during which anyone gets their sleep and everybody has the right to catch up over the weekend but I can assure you my kids will be on to other things like chores, playing outside and doing something constructive once a reasonable amount of rest has been reached.
I won’t, however, treat them cattily in doing so.
Atrael, I LOVE to wake up multiple times. But I hear the alarm at least. Waking up multiple times soo makes the lovely sleep time seem to last longer. Don’t you notice that the time of the night/morning that you are the most comfortable in bed is the time right before you have to get up? Of course, then 5 minutes later you have to get out of that comfortable bed. Why not increase that time? So I looove my current (almost broken) alarm clock. It has two alarms and an awesome snooze button that lets me adjust the snooze time. (Anybody have one like the one I have now I’ll buy it from you for $100. Very serious here.) I set my first alarm an hour or two hours before I have to wake up. Then the second alarm a half hour before I have to wake up, then I hit the snooze bar. Now I do live alone so it makes it easier. I don’t know what I’ll do when I get married. Hopefully my wife will be the same way. I know I’m not the only person that wakes up this way. Still, I would guess it isn’t too common so I’ll have to adjust (sigh) one day.
(meekly) Oh! See, the thing is when you get this old, you need reading glasses. LOL. But they aren’t good for the 'puter screen. Tends to make one a bit “seasick”.
Thanks for the help and patience, back to our regularly scheduled “Sleep Book” hehe.
Does she fall asleep at the same time you do? (emphasis on “Fall asleep”). Remember, just because someone is in bed does not mean they are in “insta-sleep” mode the way others might be.
No, I think we “late” sleepers and night owls have made it pretty clear that that is not what we’re complaining about. What is irritating to us is the snide comments and the “holier than thou” attitude of people who, as someone very succinctly said in another post in another thread, think that everyone has to “be asleep when they are asleep, and awake when they are awake”. And not only think that, but proceed to try and enforce it by being a total pain in the butt to their loved ones, roommates etc.
Also, we all made quite clear that we are not talking about sleeping at times when we have other obligations.
Trouble is, Rick was mistaken. That is not what most of us were saying at all! (and yes, I know a few posters said that they would be “snappish” but most of us just explained that we were more likely to be in various stages of dazedness).
As to the “if you’re working second shift” that’s okay, but not if you were playing computer games? No one here has said that their morning lark roommates or loved ones should have to tiptoe around or walk on eggshells. Unless this person was insisting that you be quiet or something, why would the reason they stayed up matter?
This is the kind of thing that gets my hackles up. Time sleeping IS time well spent. If we don’t have kids, or a dog to walk, or a job to be at, why shouldn’t (we) spend as much time asleep as we want? What else should we be doing that would please you?
I think there’s some jealousy at work here. I know I’d be jealous as hell if I had to work long hours and had kids to take care of. I’d envy people who can sleep 10, 12, 16 hours without it affecting anyone else.
Count me in on the fan going all year long thing. A darkened room and constant white noise is how I can sleep long and happily. Forget those little machines that make various babbling brook/wind howling/rainstorm sounds. They all just sound tinny and electronic. A box fan, right next to my bed on the nightstand, set on low or medium, is perfecct for me. I’m also one for having the room a bit chilled so I can snggle under covers.
Another advantage to snooze alarms and waking up multiple times is that the short snippets of dreams that happen in-between the alarms tend to be more interesting and vivid, and I’m more likely to remember them.
“Normal” day? What the hell is that? Either it’ll be a week in which I’m away by 6:30pm every day or it’ll be a hellish week like this one. Monday: left at 9pm. Tuesday: left at 12:30am. Wednesday: left at 9pm. Thursday: left at 10pm. Tonight - who knows? And each day I have to get up at 7am.
Frankly I have no idea what my point is. I’m just tired and fed up and want to have a good old moan. Do ignore me.
pan
Uhhh, no shit… up to a point. Recent reports on the national news channels have said that in studies done on women that those sleeping significantly more or less than 8 (that’s 8, do you hear?) are at risk of developing serious heart problems. They said there’s no reason to think the same standard should not also apply to men.
The discussion is not whether or not people need to sleep, it’s whether or not the stated claim he needs twice as much as anyone else is excessive.
If he’s gonna pose the question here and ask our opinions, I’m going to reply honestly. Yes Esprix, I think it’s excessive. You should go to a doctor and see if there’s something physically wrong because you’re not sleeping 8, or even 10, or even 12 hours. You’re limiting your time for activity and enjoyment to a scant half what others enjoy. I’ve heard you say in other threads “I want my 5 minutes back” when you read a worthless OP. What about 8 frikkin hours?
And Equipoise… “What else should we be doing that would please you?” This is such bullshit. Take your accusations of jealousy and shove 'em. Where do you get off saying heartfelt advice generates from a selfish desire? I’d like to see Esprix get more out of the day for his own good, got it?
Actually, she’s usually in bed a good while before I am. An hour at least, and she’s always asleep when I go to bed.
Do you see the difference between what I said, and what you said?** I** said that I thought the reason msmith537 was as upset as they were was because they had probably had roommates that did expect that kind of silence around them, extending late in the day. I didn’t say that you expected that treatment, but that those of us that have been around someone like that tend to get upset about it.
It was the “snappish” people I was referring to. Not everyone. Don’t take a statement that I make about what some posters other than you have said, and start telling my why it doesn’t apply to you. I know that, that’s why I wasn’t talking about you. Neither Rick, nor I, nor msmith537 was mistaken, we’re just talking about a minority that we perhaps have dealt with. And while this is Esprix’s thread, in these types of posts, we all know that there will be discussions about situations that are not exactly like what the OP is talking about. Unless I’ve mentioned you by name, don’t assume that I’m complaining about your actions. Personally, I think Esprix is spot on with being irritated by the behavior he talked about, however some of the other issues that have been raised here are different, and that is what some of us are referring to. Not someone that stays in there room asleep, dead to the world that can go on normally around them, but those that demand we modify our behavior, simply because they choose to sleep later.
Easy, you brought it on yourself. Hey, I know what it’s like to stay up playing a game till 3am. Done it several times…and if the next day I want to sleep in, that’s fine…but I don’t get upset at my wife if she gets up and starts cleaning, and wakes me up. I made the decision to stay up late, of my own volition, nobody forced me. So I have to deal with the consequences of that decision. Even if it means not sleeping as late as I might like.
CanvasShoes what you need to realize is that we’re talking about different types of people but on the same topic. Most of the “late sleepers” are those that just happen to stay up late, and get up late, but don’t expect the world to come to a stop because they do. But there have been a few that have made comments like:
note, not singling anyone out, just grabbed quotes from where I found them.
Those are the types of comments that lead us ‘morning people’ to feel that there is some special type of way that you generic you feel you should be treated. Which is just not the case. In your own home, fine…whatever. In the office? or sharing a room with someone? Be professional and courteous. That’s all anyone is asking. Not “Don’t talk to me until I’ve spoken to you”. That’s a bit ridiculous.
Because work is considered virtuous. Playing computer games is not.
Of course it’s just as likely that people with a risk of heart problems have either a hard time sleeping or suffer fatigue and sleep a lot.
So what about a “normal” person who played computer games in the early evening, or in the afternoon? Is that just as despicable?
This depends entirely on how much time he’s awake between sleeping. I don’t know about him–for all I know he is getting equal sleep and awake time. But for me I know it’s common for me to sleep for 12 hours, and then be up for 24.