ummm I think I am the only female to post on this thread so far…But lemme say this Dale yer a freaking idiot. And that hole you are digging is getting muddy from all the frothing you are doing. I am NOT a feminine woman, never have been never will be! I had my hair military short once, now its down to my ass.I prefer jeans and t shirts and hiking boots. But I have given BIRTH to two children so don’t you dare tell me I am less of a woman than some lipstick smeared hussy in a tight skirt and stiletto heels. If you think that gender is all in the external appearance I challenge YOU to have babies! But know what I don’t think you are MAN enough to withstand the pain!
[sub]I think I need some graham crackers and warm milk now[/sub]
Dale you said people who excessively masculine are “lynched”, “strung-up”, and “discriminated against.” What exactly do you mean? What is being done to these people? Are we not allowed to speak out against prejudice if it is being done in the name of masculinity?
When no one has any idea what the hell a writer is trying to say, one has to wonder whether the blame lies with the audience.
To quote “Repo Man”: “John Wayne was a fag.”
I think you need to read your posts a few more times before you hit the old “Submit Reply” button. You seem to be having some trouble in getting your point across, whatever your point may in fact be. I am assuming that you have a point–besides the one on top of your head, that is.
IIRC, this is only true for Western white culture for the last eighty years or so. Post WW1, anyways. Pre WW1, long hair in males was still relatively common. And only forty or so years later began attempting to come back into fashion.
Just a couple of examples, many of the First Nations men kept long hair, and Sikh men have always kept long hair. Many frontiersmen also had long hair.
And funny, did you know that high heels were originally men’s court shoes? And the goth trend…Edwardian clothing and makeup from sometime earlier.(good, this is the Pit, I don’t HAVE to look it up)
Men wore powder, beauty patches, and wigs for several centuries. What we’ve seen until relatively recently has been a bit of an aberration, if you look at it over the last 1,000 years or so.
And oh yeah,
We don’t. But traditional “masculine” man != homophobe. Does NOT equal. And whose traditions?
We are perfectly entitled to call someone on boorish behaviour, and not tolerate it in the name of “traditional masculinity”. Just as we shouldn’t tolerate wife-beating. In fact, I think we should discriminate against as much of that sort of behaviour as possible.
Fine, you do that. Personally, I’d rather go with the modern equivalent of the Sacred Band of Thebes. Or the Gurkhas. Or Plains warriors. I wonder who would win…:rolleyes:
I know it’s been mentioned already, but the idea that long hair has not been a “masculine” thing for the past 100 years is only true in certain Western countries. And even then, it doesn’t apply to every group within those countries.
Dale, does being able to beat the living shit out of somebody make one more masculine? I’m asking this because I’m pretty sure there have been North American Natives through the last 100 years who’d gladly kick the piss out of you while their hair’s blowing in the wind. But I guess that since they were alive in the 20th century (and some of them still alive in the 21st), they’re just long haired pantywaists, right?
I’m not even touching the rest of your argument. I’m just pointing out that your statement about long hair is completely off.
Oh, and for the record. I’ve been involved in the martial arts for some time. I am a member of a submission-wrestling league. Despite my long hair, I’m pretty sure that I could say “I’m tough as motherfuckin’ nails” in front of any crowd, and not get strung up for it. At best, someone would ask me to prove it. However, if I said “I think all gay men are goddamned wimps,” I probably WOULD get lynched, and I would damn well deserve it.
Long hair? Long hair and SKIRTS? That’s the best you can come up with? External, disposable matters of fashion have NOTHING to do with the strength, courage, masculinity or femininity of anyone.
I wear jeans, hiking boots, men’s shirts. I’ve been known to don a tuxedo once or twice for an evening out. I’ve had short hair, I’ve had long hair. I have no fear of power tools; I helped my mom and dad build an addition to our house when I was a kid, I can fix my own toilet, mow the lawn, hang storm windows, and weatherstrip a door. I have a kick-ass sense of direction.
Andros can cook, clean, change a babies’ diaper, comfort sad friends, and I bet he sets a damn nice table with flowers and candles and everything.
Your arguments would suggest that these things are masculine or feminine qualities. I would argue that these are genderless qualities, and that your ideas of what masculine and feminine are utter BULLSHIT.
Looking back over time and saying “But women and men have always done , worn, been ___, therefore this is the way it’s supposed to be” is ridiculous. There are 1,000 of cultures and models of human behavior to choose from. We are lucky that we live in a time and place where “women’s work” and “men’s work” boils down to plain old work.
Hee-hee. Actually, your post reminded me of a guy I used to know who liked to wear skirts, because he found them very comfortable. Long skirts, with combat boots underneath. He often wore nail polish and sometimes dyed his hair. And piercings, yes, those too. I think he wore makeup sometimes, but I don’t remember for sure. He kept his hair fairly short (not buzzed, just above-the-ear short) and had a gorgeous goatee and moustache, though.
Feminine? Not a chance in hell. Scary would be a much more accurate description. Scary enough that I never saw anyone mess with him - not even the dirt-dumb jock fratboys that get their kicks from harassing anyone who doesn’t look just like them.
Good thing, too, because he also knew how to fight in a serious way. He could kick Dale the Bold idiot’s ass all over town and back. Although he was a real nice guy, once you got to know him.
In this neck of the woods you damn well have to be a “tough as nails” guy to wear a skirt and get away with it. 
Dale -
I am a man.
My career has led me into the humanities where I care for others.
I cried when my daughters were born, I cried when my parents and grandparents passed away, I cried on 09/11/01. I cry often because I am happy. Crying is good.
I talk about my feelings often. They’re important.
I fully accept that other people live lives that are completely different than mine.
I can change diapers or change the oil in my car with equal skill.
I can hug Lola or our kids and tell them I love them without reservation.
I can out-cook most people I know.
I do laundry.
I can kick ass if I have to.
I wear an earing.
My hair is now short, it used to be long.
I love sports.
I like shooting at things.
I really need to shave.
What kind of man am I?
P.S. (we all fart)
And thank god for that or we’d all explode, and that wouldn’t be very masculine, would it? Or maybe it would…it definitely wouldn’t be feminine…would it? Damn, I’m so confused now. Dale the Bold, you’re our only hope! Please tell us if exploding is masculine or feminine!
S-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-n-n-n-n-n-n I h-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-p-e
andros - All your recent threads have been really lame. Have you run out of things to play PC cop about?
I think you may have me confused with some other andros. Like, one who starts threads regularly.
How many threads have I started lately, barstool, you pissant piece of shit?
And Dale, you’re still a fucking idiot.
I think y’all are giving him way too much credit. If s l o w e r doesn’t work, I’d imagine he’ll try L O U D E R next, hmmm?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by magdalene *
**
That’s my point exactly. Thank you. They are genderless qualities. Go ahead and flame me all you want, but I think most people at least got the point, even though they can’t understand context. I get the last laugh because I agree with almost everyone on this thread, even if they cannot understand english. The quote I just put up sums up my whole point very well, though (except they are not my ideas of masculine and feminine, the point is they arre widespread notions). Are any of you understanding yet?
Dale, my little sugarplum, we would all understand you better if you actually wrote in English.
Well, pretty sure I had this a while ago,but I didn’t bother posting it.
Dale, your point seems to be ‘Isn’t it great that we’re breaking all these gender-role stereotypes that have been created in recent history?’ or could be reworded as a statement that the western culture seems to be doing this as a whole. I agree, yes, it’s great. (I’m not familiar enough with modern European culture, but I daresay the situation is much the same over there, as that’s where much of our fashion and music comes from. Can’t comment for the rest of the world.)
You would be better off spending time clarifying your thoughts on the subject and somewhat less time being condescending, IMNSHO.
Feynn, can I clone you? I have some friends in need of such men
(I already have one, he is brotherless, sadly.)
Is being a snotty, condescending prick a masculine or feminine quality?
Fuck off, Dale.
Errr . . . ok. Whatever you say, Sparky.
Now, who are you again? And why do you care?