Dating advice?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I’m a 33-year-old man and have never been in a long-term relationship. The most dates I ever went out with one woman is four, which happened a couple years ago. I’ve been on an online dating website for a number of years. I get a decent number of first dates with women from that website, but invariably there’s no second or third date. I’m 5’10" (i.e. not short), a bit on the thin side (not as much muscle mass as I’d like), but consider myself moderately attractive. Also, I have a good job with a good income.

One thing that’s always worked against me is that I’m quite shy. However, I often feel that the conversation flows pretty well on many of these first dates, yet nothing further ever happens. The women either blow me off completely or say that they didn’t feel a connection. Most of the dates are for dinner, although occasionally I’ll go on a date to a museum.

Are any Dopers in a similar situation? Has anyone had similar experiences, but made adjustments to their strategy and found an SO? It’s extremely frustrating to get my hopes up so often and have nothing to show for it.

2

Does the site you’re on do mixers?

That’s how I met the guy I’m with right now. It was a combination of mixer and friend of a friend deal (a friend came down to the city, asked me to come out and since I had been half thinking of going anyway I was in. Met up with her and she introduced me to some people she knew from other mixers she’d been to and he was one of them. We’ve been seeing each other for about four months now).

I’m the shy type myself. Gone on a few dates straight from the website and other places but they never seemed to make a connection. (Most recent one before this was a guy my friend’s mom knew from work. Cute, nice, a total gentleman… and a week later he tells me he’s going back with his ex). The mixer let me relax and meet more people without the same sort of pressure a first date has and you can always ask someone out from there or go to several and ask someone then once you get to know them a little better in a group setting.

3

Many things [that I learned, and I am close in age to you, 29]:

-Its not enough to be a normal, well-adjusted individual. That’s the baseline; you need to have something about yourself that is interesting, but genuinely interesting, not something you took up solely to impress women. So follow the boilerplate and pursue social interests, and step outside your own comfort zone.

-You mentioned you are shy. Plenty of people are. For many shy people, the worst thing that perpetuates shyness is they are so afraid of embarassing themselves/saying something stupid/feeling humiliated they don’t try. In my opinion, to overcome shyness, you have to take the risk you are going to say/do something retarded. You have to be genuinely willing to change and stop making excuses for yourself. Take risks, put yourself in situations where you might get embarassed or even heartbroken. I truly do believe this builds character, you develop a better sense of self and confidence because screwing up with something as mundane as a minor date doesn’t become the boogeyman in your psyche preventing you from opening up more.

-Be open-minded about who you are willing to meet. Some people are unsuccessful in dating because they narrow their field down so much the likelyhood of meeting someone they approve of is pretty much nil. Conversely, don’t jump all over the first person who seems interested in you without genuinely feeling confident they are the kind of person you are willing to pursue a realtionship with.

-Be persistent and dynamic, keep trying but be open to improving yourself, even if its little ways. Be open to feedback and don’t make excuses!

-Develop a thick skin. For me, dating has been an intensive trial-and-error process, lots of trainwrecks, lots of I like her/she doesn’t like me and she likes me/I don’t like her incompatibilities. But I keep at it because I know that for me, if I meet someone special, it will be the product of persistence and optimism. Sometimes people get lucky and meet their soulmate on the first try, others have to meet 99 people before they meet someone great. Always be optimistic!

-Don’t write off friendship with someone you’re attracted to if you honestly feel like you have enough common interests to make a workable friendship in spite of romantic rejection. HOWEVER, don’t let women use this as a pretext for using you to talk about their own dysfunctional love life if you really don’t want to hear it- friendship is a two way street and some women inadvertantly abuse it.

-Make sure you have a realistic perception of women, don’t fall into the whole Nice Guy fallacy or see women as these unattainable prizes; women are just as human as you, they get bored, act stupid, and take a dump from time to time :stuck_out_tongue:

-Finally, and the hardest piece of advice to follow, don’t try too hard. Dont come off as too desperate/available. How to do this? Trial and error. If you’re shy, try and find ways to strike up conversations with people (not just women you’re attracted to) in situations where it would be natural for a stranger to talk to someone. You still may come off as a creepy, don’t let it deter you, just keep practicing. Dont give up!

4

Are you having fun on these first dates?

My gut tells me you may be acting like a robot trying to do all the right things but forgetting to have fun.
Incubus makes a lot of good points.

Don’t be affraid to throw yourself out there. And don’t, please don’t be affraid to disagree with your date if she has an opinion different than yours. Women in general don’t particularly like men who agree with every little thing they say.

5

Ouch.

6

Simple but effective advice - try having a few drinks. It can really go a long ways in breaking down the wall of shyness you’ve put up, and make you want to approach people and be more social.

7

The short version:

  1. Be funny
  2. Have interests
  3. A little assertiveness never hurt anybody
8

Are you making her laugh?

9

This is so important - I was talking with one guy I met on an online site, and in our first (and last) conversation he said something about how women were so mean and always dumping him and no one would give him a chance blahblahblah - okay, add me to the list of women who won’t come near you with that attitude. Getting all negative like that is a horribly self-fulfilling prophesy.

Hey! Quit spilling all our secrets. :slight_smile:

Being shy isn’t a kiss of death for dating - my husband is a very quiet guy (and I’m a fairly quiet girl), but from the first time we met, we haven’t stopped talking. Something about me makes him want to (able to?) talk to me; I think this can happen for you, too.

I would also suggest lowering your expectations when meeting these ladies - before I met my husband (online), I was starting to get much more realistic when going on a meet-and-greet date with a guy. All I was expecting was to meet him and spend an hour or two chatting - nothing more. You don’t want to go to your meet-and-greets expecting to meet the love of your life. Having realistic expectations should lower your nervousness and possible air of desperation.

ETA: Some concrete advice - be nice to the wait staff, and hold doors for your date (if it’s logical for you to do so - don’t, like, push her out of the way to do it or something). Women do still like that - if your date gives you a hard time for holding a door for her, move on - she’s got issues.

10

I’m going to get excoriated by the women here in a minute, but I am compelled to weigh in. That was me to a T in my younger days. Ironically, when I stopped caring about finding someone, that’s when it really clicked. But by that point I genuinely didn’t care anymore, so now women bitch at me for being too aloof. Just can’t win with them.

Anyway, I digress. I think you’re mired in a classic case of Friend Zone. You’re just not risky enough. I know all your instincts tell you to play it safe, and it’s tough to do otherwise for fear of screwing something up. I’ve always felt like that too. Be a gentleman, you know? But in the immortal words of the black guy on 40 Year Old Virgin, “If doing what feels right for you doesn’t work, it’s time to try a little wrong, dog!”

Don’t be a complete asshole, but be decisive. Don’t get caught up in the “oh, I don’t know, what do YOU want to do?” back and forth. That’s not attractive. Pick activities that are fun and interactive, like bowling. Practice how you sit and stand and walk…you can tell within seconds who’s relaxed and who’s not by their posture. Don’t listen to what women SAY they want; look at what they DO. I’ve never met a woman who dumped a guy because he didn’t make her laugh enough, but the streets are littered with the broken hearts of guys who “tried too hard” or “weren’t a challenge anymore.”

But most importantly, you have to try to kiss her! The two categories of men in a woman’s brain are “Guys she’d sleep with” and “Friends.” You have a very short window to get into the former before she dumps you into the latter. So at the end of a date, if you like the gal, make your intentions clear and go for a kiss. Sure, she might turn away, and that stings for a moment, but at least it forces her hand, instead of giving her the opportunity to blow you off until you get the hint. Or even worse, try to be your friend and then bitch to you about this other guy she’s seeing. No, no. Go down swinging, my friend!

11

A common misconception with men is that they have to be perfect. Ripped abs, Brad Pitt looks, tons of money. That’s simply not true. Usually “good looking enough” is good enough. 90% of it comes down to personality.

Being funny helps but you don’t want to appear a clown or buffoon. IOW, you aren’t doing “schtick” all night. An occasional joke or witty anecdote will suffice. You also want to show that you can be serious too.

The thing is, it isn’t about fine tuning your personality to be a “perfect date”. It’s more about trying to figure out what you and the other person are looking for and then seeing if the other person has it. I’m not an expert, but it seems to me people look for one or more of the following out of a relationship:
-companionship - do they simply enjoy your company
-sex - purely physical attraction
-validation - being with you fulfills some need that makes them feel good about themselves
-entertainment - do you provide them with activities or events that they might not do on their own

For example a potential mate might be looking for someone who they can just sit and watch movies with. Or they want a rich lawyer for the social status. Or maybe they want to date a funny party guy whose in a band.

You need to figure out what that person is looking for and decide if that’s who you want to be for them.

12

Be confident in who you are. You are you and you should own it. Women are attracted to confidence. Note, I didn’t say arrogance…confidence. And don’t be afraid of rejection. If someone doesn’t like you for you, then you are better off without them. Trust me there’s enough women in your age bracket, that you will find someone and it probably won’t take that long.

Good luck.

13

This is a recipe for failure. You can’t change who you are after 30 something years. Just be yourself and find somebody that appreciates you.

14

I think “deciding if that’s who you want to be for them” includes figuring out if that is something that comes naturally to you, too. It could include deciding that the gold-digger is looking for someone who is far more ambitious than you’ll ever be, and not seeing them again. I do agree, though, that trying to change yourself for someone is rarely if ever successful.

15

My question: What are you really passionate about? What’s your favorite hobby or thing to do that gets your adrenaline pumping?

When we are doing something we love, we tend to be more confident and less shy, and our date gets to see us at our best.

My first date with my SO was a concert put on by the radio station I was working at. I was pumped when Bel Biv Devoe et al hit the stage - I was smiling and bopping to the beat and we were dancing in our seats. The adrenaline carried over to the restaurant afterwards - and we really got to see if we clicked. It was definitely a better way to show who I was than just a dinner out.

I know people frown about movies as a first date - but I think sometimes it can be great to go to some kind of movie or concert or event first and then grab a bite - because it gives you something in common to talk about besides the normal background questions. And it just gives you a chance to get used to being face-to-face/side-by-side with each other after the protective shell of talking online.

16

That’s not what I meant. I’m not saying you should change who you are. It’s more like, find someone who is looking for what you have to offer.

17

If something happens to you more than once or twice, it’s you.

So you have to figure out what to change, then decide what to do about it.

Is it your looks. No, that’s a total cop out. Don’t believe me, go to the marriage license clerk and look at all the ugly and I mean UGLY peple in line waiting to get licenses to get married.

It’s not because you’re fat or think or whatever, you can find lots of example of fat people with nice looking skinny partners.

For online dating, you meat for drinks or coffee. Let’s face it you know in 5 minutes whether you like someone enough to persue it. I didn’t say you know if 5 minutes if you like someone enough to marry them but in 5 minutes you can tell if they are going to be worth another look.

So meet for drinks or meet at Starbucks and then if things work out fine, if not, you lose 20 minutes and move on.

People are odd and frankly the Internet has made dating tougher, as it gives people the illusion of choice. If someone isn’t perfect they think they can skip to the next one. After all there are thousands of people online. But it’s like a bar, it can be jammed packed ever night, but after about a month, you’ve met everyone in that bar.

People also like to THINK they like stuff but they don’t want to make an effort.

For example, I used to work for Starwood. My job gave me free hotel rooms and a lot of airline miles. I used to say, "I’m bored this weekend, I’m going to New York City (or San Francisco), does anyone want to come with me, my treat, I get free hotel rooms and free air fare.

In four years on that job only ONE person every took me up on it.

I thougtht “OK maybe they don’t like my company,” so I used to say, “We don’t have to hang out, I just don’t like flying alone.” Nope didn’t matter, oh sure everyone said, they would love to travel, but no one would do it.

The older you get the harder it becomes because people crawl into a set routine and won’t break it.

18

Thanks for all the advice. In the past a few people have told me that I don’t seem to show much passion, even if I am talking about something I’m passionate about. I do try to make a few jokes during dates, but perhaps not often enough.

19

I just have to weigh in with the fact that I’ve done a lot of dating in my life, and there have been many cute, funny, awesome guys that I’ve gone on dates with, that were great, nothing was wrong at all…just…no clicks. Something just wouldn’t…click. I’m talking you look at it months later going ‘wtf, why was there no click?’ And you just can’t make that, so…

You’re going to have to date a lot, that’s all there is to it; you’re working percentages, here. Some women will just never click with you; others might but the timing will be off; others…yeah, you’re gonna have to find SOME kind of hook to get her to want to go again. I don’t think I’ve gone on more than two dates with anyone before calling it quits if there wasn’t some kind of ‘oomph’ going on.

I stopped keeping count a long time ago, and can tell you that out of 100 different guys I’ve dated <being conservative, here; I’ve had 25+ years to work with> fewer than 10 of them were relationships lasting longer than a month. Nothing longer than 3 years, so you can take that with any amount of salt. But the point is you’re going to have to keep trying. And…enjoy who you are when you’re alone. When you know who you are, and you pretty much LIKE who you are, you’re gonna be just fine.

20

Try to find a fun activity or event instead of dinner for the first date. On a dinner date, there is a lot of pressure on you to be a good conversationalist, which is hard for us shy people.

If you are doing something fun, it provides you with conversational fodder and creates a good feeling/positive impression. If things go well, then you can invite her to go get a bite to eat or coffee, during which you can talk about the fun stuff you did and also get to know each other a little better.

The museum might be good if that suits you and (more importantly) the type of girl you are interested in. But, the museum might not help much if exhibiting passion/enthusiasm is difficult for you. You want to create a fun, pleasant vibe, and if you can’t generate it easily yourself, you should choose an activity that is inherently fun to help you out.

Also, if you are moderately handsome, then that is great. But make sure your clothes look good, your nails, hair and teeth are clean, and you don’t have bad breath or other odor problems.

(I have no reason to think that those are a problem for you, and I assume a 33 year-old guy doesn’t need to be told those things, but if you are getting plenty of first dates and few second ones, there may be something in your physical “presence” that is the key to the problem.)

And I second the advice that if you are interested in the girl, don’t hesitate to go for a kiss, if you haven’t been doing so already.

From what you wrote, there is no reason in the world that you cannot find someone eventually. Don’t get discouraged.