True. But any guy who tells a woman who clearly wants to get married sometime soon they don’t want to ever get married on a first date is too stupid to be a marriage candidate anyhow.
“Of course I want to get married to you someday. Let’s practice. Your place or mine?”
I don’t think she’s announcing an interest in marrying him. I think she’s announcing an interest in getting married fairly soon. And saying that any relationship that isn’t going to lead to marriage will end no later than 2 years after it starts.
Or simply not a manipulative player?
No doubt there will be guys who first date, second date, fifth date, will say whatever it is they assess will best increase the odds of sex that day or as soon as possible. The same person who would lie on date one is not likely to be the honest person date three. They are probably well practiced for that as a serious conversation on date three.
Again just how I’d imagine I’d react - the first date before we’ve even had ice cream approach? Again would be entertaining. And I’d know the comment is nothing about me personally other than that I might be considered for a date two. It’s her relationship guideline out front. The conversation date three? Scares me more. We have now gotten to know each other just a bit and she’s talking about marriage? Whoa. I may be out here looking to find a long term partner but slow it down!
Depending of course in each case on how exactly the conversation goes.
Of course yet again glad to not be out there navigating this crap. Hard enough to be married.
I was thinking the same thing. Saying that you won’t give a relationship more than 2 years without firm plans for marriage on the first date, or better yet, in the profile, is stating your goals and guidelines. Saying the same thing after a few dates is more veering into actually “judging this relationship” territory.
As a currently dating single dude I agree.
I’d much rather get each of our “red lines” out there on date 1. Helps if they can be explained nicely albeit firmly. How you do that tells me a lot about you whether or not our respective redline lists align.
Sounds to me like “clock’s ticking, dude.”
He might say yes, he’s interested, really mean no, but get convinced that marriage is the right thing with her.
Depending on their ages, talking about general attitudes towards marriage (and money) might make sense early on. I’m assuming she isn’t auditioning for a Tradwife role here. I think each couple will approach these issues differently and on different time scales. But that takes some understanding of the other person, which isn’t going to be there on the first date. (I’m also assuming that this isn’t a date between coworkers or people who have known each other for a while.)
An open ended question about marriage would seem to get a more honest answer than this “here it is. Like it or lump it.” Not that she isn’t entitled to that attitude. Just that it might turn someone who would be interested off.
You and me both. Though being married hasn’t been hard at all. But we don’t give each other ultimatums.
Maybe this is my problem. I got married and went on dates (not in that order) long before there were dating apps. I know nothing about them, except reading a book about a woman who did a start up making one who failed miserably.
I can see guidelines in the app, since you are filtering out potential dates out of many candidates. But once you are on a date maybe you should be less algorithmic and more holistic.
I guess you can specify desired heights and weights in the app, but maybe you shouldn’t haul out a tape measure and scale on the first date.
Maybe. But most people don’t live in romcoms. 
Manipulative jerks who are willing to lie to get laid don’t generally in the real world become long term trustworthy partners because of the power of love.
I’ve heard about couples like you. I fantasize that they are the ones that end with one of them snapping and beating the other to death with a frozen leg of lamb (and serving it the investigating police … name the author! 
)
For us it has been work off and on. But work works for us. Well so far. Still working at it!
Going on dates after getting married is a pretty good idea! We should try that. Maybe it would be less work then …
I know enough about dating apps to know that the women have plenty of men to say yes to, and the men get fewer responses. Height weight … those are superficial filters that in real world will be negotiable. Not spending more than two years on a relationship that isn’t by then resulting in plans together in the future, a commitment to get married at some point, that for her is just a nonnegotiable fact that she is going to live by. Not a threat to force a behavior.
For a slightly (!) younger perspective on things - my wife and I got married in 2002, after 8ish years of living together. My perspective on marriage was a bit tainted, as my parents had an unpleasant divorce when I was 9, and while they mostly kept my brother and I out of it, I didn’t see the point of the time, expense, and drama of getting married. Especially because when they (my parents) later remarried, it wasn’t completely successful (my step-mother is a great woman for standing up to my father’s BS, but my step-father is a just-shy of abusive jerk, and I’m glad they’re now separated).
My wife, ever tolerant, comes from a much more traditional family. And her parents were creating stress for her because we weren’t, so we went through all the traditional stuff together, -for- each other.
Before we got married, she asked if I wanted her to take my last name. I told her that I would be honored, but did not expect her to do so (my step-mother kept her last name, as did my mother after she went back to her prior family name). She thought on it, and decided to go ahead and do so, though she didn’t share her final reasons for the decision (other than it was comparatively easy to do right at the marriage, and harder if she did so later). At that point we were leaning towards never having kids, but she wasn’t 100% sure at that point, so that may have been a factor, along with her parent’s expectations.
Back to the thread though, communication is key. It’s better to ask, or set expectations from both sides, rather than assume your partner is going to intuit or assume everything. I am told that’s kind of a “guy” POV though - my wife feels that women are trained from an early age to understand non-vocal communication and social cues much more clearly than men. She was blown away when I said that I didn’t -get- that: if she wanted me to do/not do something, to please tell me, and it will or won’t happen.
So there were a few years of minor frictions based around our assumptions on how to communicate!
Or even before that, to a certain extent.
10 minutes ago, I sent a text to woman I’ve been exchanging very pleasant messages with in the past few days. We have agreed to go on a date soon, and there’s a serendipitous possibility of us spending a few days together in a very nice place shortly after that.
We both have trust issues, so I outlined in very general terms how I would like things to go. Nothing detailed, and no, I did not mention sex, nor marriage.
I’m taking the train to spend some time with my family, and I’ve told her I wouldn’t read her answer before evening. Judging from her previous messages, I think she sees things the same way, so I think she will agree. Otherwise, no problem.
Being upfront and clear that we agree on a set of very general goals from the start is essential.
Roald Dahl. One of my mother’s favorite stories. Called “Lamb to the Slaughter” IIRC. I think Hitchcock did it on TV - I’m watching the half hour episodes, but haven’t gotten to that one yet.
I thought everyone went on dates with their spouse.
I have zero argument about her finding out his attitude towards marriage, and dumping him if it doesn’t match hers. Just not this early, unless there is a crisis. My parents had an album of music from South Africa from around 1960, you can imagine how sexist and racist it was. One of the songs was about being invited to Henrietta’s wedding, but no one knows who the groom will be.
My wife suggested that a good ice breaker on this subject would be saying something about her parents’ marriage, and, if it was good, saying she wanted something like that. That’s background, not planning.
That sounds very reasonable. Good luck on your date. I’m not sure what your guidelines are, but I think most people start dating in public places so things can stay under control.
But why not this early? Finding out sooner rather than later that you have incompatible goals seems a very reasonalble thing to do to me.
Yes, why waste time dating someone you are incompatible with?
This early as in an hour into a date rather than week 2? And what if the guy is not as decided upon marriage as she is? Maybe he thinks 3 years is the right amount of time. Or one year? Or it depends on life circumstances. I don’t think his opinion is “yes, I’ll get married in the deadline” or “I’m never interested in getting married.” The latter can be determined in a discussion about goals in life. Maybe he has minor commitment issues which would go away after being comfortable with her.
There was a book review in a recent New Yorker of two books about why Gen Zers are not having as much sex as earlier generations. Is this a case of bringing unnuanced online communications methods into real life?
Perhaps. But I’d sooner believe it’s a persistent belief that Mr/Ms PerfectPerson is out there and settling for less than perfect is stupid.
The perfect has always been the enemy of the good. But now the zeitgeist seems to have really gotten the bit in its teeth. (To meta mash-up some metaphors in a very Gen Z way! 
.)
It’s the Secretary Problem:
You have to date some number of people to get an idea of the bar your ideal partner should meet.. When dating apps are presenting you with (the illusion of) almost unlimited choice, that number becomes unfeasibly large.
The person with that sort of deadline isn’t looking for “yes, I’ll get married by the deadline”. Nobody could ever know on a first date that they would ever want to marry this person, much less that they would want to do it in two years. They are trying to avoid spending a year or two or even a couple of months on “I’m not interested in ever getting married” - which is absolutely something someone could know on the first date. IOW, they are looking for someone who is currently open to the idea of marriage. It doesn’t mean the person with the deadline is sure she wants to marry the other person in two years. It certainly doesn’t mean she’s opposed to getting married sooner and it doesn’t even mean that the deadline can’t be adjusted based on circumstances. What it does mean is that if he’s opposed to the idea of getting married, ever, he can either cut bait now or accept that there will be a breakup within two years or decide that he’s not 100% opposed to the idea of getting married and “let’s see how it goes.” The option he does not have is to float along for five or ten or twelve years without getting married. There’s nothing wrong with doing that - if that’s what both people want but it often isn’t.
I mean, really , it’s just kind of the opposite of " I’m not looking for anything serious" - and that was in use long before dating apps existed.
I figured this crowd would know!
It was a funny sir. Riffed off your not in that order comment. Or an attempt at a funny anyway! 
I’d do it if I wanted dating practice, if I had no plans to settle down in the near future but wanted a regular. This is the way plenty of people date. Not “the one” or “a one” but “plenty good enough for right now.”
Like an Army hitch or whatever. If you aren’t that committed might be a great deal for you. Oh, I have an iron clad clause that you will absolutely execute? I’m sobbing, I’m sobbing…
Or with their family?
