Surely no one is asking someone out solely based on lack of a wedding ring, unless they’re pathetically desperate. But what’s wrong with asking someone out based on the fact that you had a pleasant couple minutes of conversation, and yes, you find them attractive? You’re not committing to a long term relationship based on that, just committing to dinner or coffee or whatever. “Attractive and nice to talk to” seems like a decent minimum threshold to decide if it’s worth spending an evening exploring the potential for a romantic relationship. “Getting to know her a bit” is what the dinner date is for.
It’s shocking how many pathetically desperate people exist in the world.
There are also quite a few men who will ask women out even if they do have a wedding ring.
“A pleasant couple minutes of conversation” is not sufficient for me to accept a dinner date. I realize that this is very clearly a Your Mileage May Vary situation for people. It may, again, be generational (I’m nearly 50, so my dating world was different than what is experienced by 20-30 year olds these days). Asking me out five minutes after we meet for the first time is moving too fast for me, even if it’s just for coffee.
Yes, I’m fussy. That’s never been a problem for me, as I have never had a problem acquiring a boyfriend and even chose to get married to one of them. I’ve also avoided abusive and skeevy boyfriends by being choosey. I turn down unwanted offers politely but I’m not obligated to do more than that.
But some people, waiting more than a day or so would already move you into the friend zone of “well, why was he pretending to be interested in me as a friend, he should have asked me out instead of being a Nice Guy”. ETA so in these situations the guy does have something to lose (whether it be sex , companionship, or a friendship based on the above.)
So no one should get offended when guys ask someone out on their own time frame, unless it’s something absurd like a year or a second, because there are always women out there for which that is the “right time”. Which isn’t to say that you are offended in these situations, just sayin’.
I certainly agree you’re not obligated to give any more than a polite “No, thank you”. My point was just that in my view someone who asks you out (politely) after only a brief conversation is neither “creepy” (as another poster suggested) nor even that unusual. (At least in the under-40 set. I can buy that there’s a generational difference here.)
Also, just to clarify, I don’t agree with the OP that married women ought to wear a ring (unless they want to, of course). But it didn’t seem like the OP was that serious to begin with.
If she lies about being single it isn’t because she’s insecure and embarrassed. It’s because she’s not into you.
Whether or not a date offer is creepy or not depends on more than just how long since you met - body language, tone, appropriate behavior or lack of it…
It is certainly possible to ask politely even after brief acquaintance (“You seem like an interesting person - would you like to meet for coffee?”) and it is possible to turn down an invitation politely, or accept it. It’s also possible to be a complete jerk (not taking “no” for an answer, as an example). It would help if people used some sense about the ring thing (as I’ve said, for safety reasons I am not allowed to wear rings or bracelets around the power tools and machinery I use at work, so people doing that kind of work shouldn’t be assumed to be single, you actually need to ask but, again, that can be done politely) but apparently common sense isn’t common.
We can all present examples of nuttiness on both sides of the dating equation, from women who freak out if a man notices them to men who act like spoiled brats because not all women find them desirable. Pit threads like this usually degenerate into feuds over the extremes and loose sight of most of us falling somewhere in the middle.
To decent guys it matters. They saw the ring and tried nothing.
In fact a ring might even encourage creeps: it tells You’re experienced - probably not sleeping around much ( and therefore have no diseases ) - should You get pregnant there’s already a father for it - the ego boost it gives if You’re risking all for a night with him and whatever…
Curlcoat, Troppus and some others: do You believe in love at first sight? The kind that has nothing carnal in it ( at first at least ).
I know it happens. In fact when I saw her, I would’ve been furious if somebody would have said anything about her figure, even complimenting, because she’s not a piece of meat, dammit!
That’s why I’m actually slightly offended when You paint Us guys just hunters who are always looking for a place to unload. We’re not animals, You know.
I look at it this way: If your personality is such that you’re moved to ask someone out after five minutes of talking, and their personality is such that they’re skeeved out by this, it probably wouldn’t have worked out anyway.
I don’t wear a wedding ring for the benefit of others. I don’t omit the ring for anyone’s comfort than my own. It doesn’t bother me to be flirted with or hit on so long as “nope” ends the process. Most of the time no is sufficient. If a stranger doesn’t bother to find out if I’m married before I turn him down, I’m not concerned about protecting his ego; he sure didn’t indicate he cared about my interests, either.
Love at first sight? I believe that two people who share a mutual attraction can, in fact, grow to love one another if they share common goals, beliefs, and desires. I believe that one person finds the other attractive based on appearance alone a lot more often than both parties fall in love. Would it help if I nerded up my post a bit with a quote by a science fiction author? “Love is that condition in which another person’s happiness is at least as essential as your own”. If you don’t know a damn thing about her other than “she’s pretty” you can’t very well love her yet, can you?
First dates are for learning more about one another, but it’s really a good idea to at least determine if the other party is in a committed relationship before asking. She might say yes (or no) either way, but you’ve at least given her the same consideration you’d like for yourself if you bother to show some interest in her wants and needs, too.
Yeah! Wish I’d said this. Couple guys here hope the woman they approached in the grocery store will go home with them, but I suspect they hope she won’t continue to be lured away from Trader Joes by pushy strangers.
Wonder why I’m having such a tough time explaining myself? I need flowchart. Is she at a bar or party alone? If yes, ask her out. Is she at the post office? Make small talk and determine if she’s interested in learning more about you. Is she trapped behind a desk at work? Remember that she can’t escape and must be friendly and polite even if she’s not interested and uncomfortable with your attention. Is she without jewelry? Use your words to determine if she wants to go out. Is she smiling, nodding, asking questions about you? Proceed regardless of jewelry. Is she avoiding eye contact, blushing, attempting to work while you yammer away? Stop it. Is she responsible in any way, shape, or form for your actions or feelings? No.
Context, people!
If you are meeting someone at a bar or open social event, nobody (outside of the crazies, who exist everywhere and aren’t worth basing your life around) nobody is going to fault you for making a polite pass at them. Likewise, in a bar or similar event, there is nothing wrong with sharing a nice drink with someone and then wishing them adieu. Easy come, easy go. There is little potential for awkwardness, as either party can make their escape quickly and without hard feelings if need be.
If it’s someone you expect to know for a while- like a new person in your friend group, a close coworker, or someone you share some other commitment with, it’s a good idea to get to know them a bit before you start trying to pick them up. That’s just common sense, as people can get uncomfortable around unwanted sexual attention, and you don’t want to start things off that way. Likewise, in close and sustained social settings, it’s better not to return that interest unless you suspect things are going to turn out well. There is a strong potential for awkwardness and hurt feelings, so you want to take it slow.
In a professional context, when it is someone you are performing a service for, or buying something from, or otherwise working with, it’s best to tread extremely carefully. It can be hard to escape from a professional relationship, and there is a very high potential for things to become strained and uncomfortable, and if things go wrong the consequences are quite high.
Oh what bullshit. The “friend zone” is a pathetic lie bitter, small, angry people use to delude themselves into believing “it’s not me, it’s her.” If a lady wants to jump your bones (or be your life mate or whatever), and the feeling is mutual, she’s gonna jump your bones and that’s that. And if a woman just isn’t attracted to you, she’s not going to get with you no matter how suavely you play that first encounter and there’s not a damn thing you can do about it. Again, romantic failure or success does not rely on finding the right “cheap code.”
FWIW, I dislike the idea of saying “She’s perfect” on first sight. You have no idea if she’s perfect. She could be a pre-op transexual. She could be on parole. She could be a raving maniac. She could not be into you, which makes her very imperfect indeed. You have no clue. You can say “she seems interesting, and I’d like to get to know her more”, but you actually need a few data points before you start raving about how amazing and wonderful someone is.
Don’t imagine fantasy lives with people you’ve just met. It’s the emotional equivalent of taping someone’s face to a playboy model and wanking to it. It’s creepy, it’s objectifying, and it’s disrespectful to these women’s lives and desires. Women are not props designed to play a role in a fantasy you’ve already written. Love is a collaborative process, not something you can just make up in your head and expect to get.
Friend zone: a myth self-absorbed, obsessive men subscribe to in order to explain why the woman they have a crush on isn’t attracted to them.
I hope You’re not referring to My post. Because at the moment I didn’t care if she was perfect or not. She could’ve had a blood dribbling axe in her hand and I wouldn’t noticed it. Stupid? Yes, but that’s the symptom number 1. I don’t know why it happened, but afterwards I had no idea what kind of figure she had or anything. Maybe it was the eyes - I honestly don’t know…
As this obviously haven’t happened to You, any discussion would be pointless, so I drop this now.
And who even likes perfect people, I know I don’t, and I also know that ‘perfect’ people wouldn’t like Me.
( FWIW, I dislike supermodels, vamps and most of those archetypes. )
But at that first meeting when you decided she was the one you loved, did she have a vote? Did you know or care if she was available, interested, gay, or attracted to you? Because it sounds like you didn’t know or care about any of those things. You picked her like an object for sale with zero regard for her wants or needs.
Glad it worked out for you, but I’m not seeing the fairy tale you are. I’m seeing “I was smitten but didn’t know or care if she was.”
Untrue. In the correct set of circumstances it is entirely feasible.(Either by being a complete tease on the woman’s part or on the guy’s naivette or both. Etc..) Although I do think the term gets thrown around alot by self-absorbed, obsessive men more often than not.
Do you have any gay friends, coworkers, or acquaintances? Are you interested in anything other than friendship with those guys? No? Did you “friend zone” them, or just regard them as friends, coworkers, or just people you know?
You have mentioned this a couple times now. Do you really think that romantic relationships are so fragile and so formed out of nothing that if I met my wife in a supermarket, I should constantly worry that she’s going to meet someone else when she goes to the supermarket? I mean, what’s special about the supermarket? I met my wife in a coffee shop. Are you suggesting that I should worry when she stops for a latte?
It’s like you really do believe this hunter/hunted metaphor you keep bringing up – if you put a man and a woman in the same environment, look out, he’s gonna club her over the head and take her! Mutual attraction is irrelevant! This is kind of a depressing attitude (although it would explain a lot of conclusions you jump to about the motivations of various men in this thread).
I’m not certain what you are getting at, but it seems you are being too technical. Are you saying that it’s impossible for a girl who is a complete tease(sexualy with grabbing in some instances) who you’ve been friends with for a reasonable(at least a year or so) amount of time and have grown fond of and perhaps as far as falling in love through all the time spent together not to be putting someone in the friend zone? Even when the only times she’s wanted to act on whatever feelings she may have had for me while she was dating my best friend(Which is something I would NEVER do because it’s against my ethics) and even admitted to as much herself meaning it wasn’t just wishfull thinking on my part and deluding myself. Or do you just not like the term “friend zone” to describe a situation like that?
I’m the voice yelling “mutual attraction is important”. Some random dude cruising stores or the workplace e doesn’t deserve any special treatment from women just because he worked up the nerve to approach. Barring a simple pleasantly or compliment-and-run, attempts to meet others should be a mutual exchange.
Some guys have complained “Well, why can’t I expect a date from a woman I find attractive simply because she’s pretty?” Might work at a bar or party. But running errands or at work it’s wise to lower your expectations. Because she might not find you attractive. She might not be interested in dealing with come-ons at work. She might be in a hurry. Maybe not I’m the mood.