Go Sailor! Sic 'em! 
http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/world/cuba.htm
http://www.american.edu/TED/cubatour.htm
–yeah, I can see how somebody could squish it and mash it and pummel it and have it come out as “state-sponsored child prostitution”.
Interesting technique.
A good friend of mine – a bleeding heart liberal – visited Cuba via Mexico recently. He’s a big defender of the Castro regime. He told me he saw the child prostitutes, and then went on to defend the practice, using an argument I have since forgotten.
If you guys want to argue, that’s fine. That’s what GD is for. If you want to learn something, I suggest you read the book I cited. It’ll give you a great many facts about Cuba from a Latin American POV. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1568331347/qid=1031796954/sr=12-1/102-8409469-8556925?v=glance&s=books
DDG, if you are arguing that Castro finally stopped sponsoring child prostitution in the late 1990’s, that could be true. The book I cited was published a couple of years ago. Maybe things have changed very recently.
december, “a good friend of yours” is not a reliable source of anything. You have made the very grave accusation that the Cuban government has mandated child prostitution. This is a blatant lie and you have offered nothing in support of it. There are plenty of murders in the US every day and that does not mean it is tolerated by the state, much less mandated. There is much drug use in the US and that does not mean it is tolerated or mandated by the authorities. I am very critical of the Cuban regime but liars like you only discredit my position. Please stop your lies and your distortions. Cuba has never tolerated, much less mandated, child prostitution. It is a lie.
In any country with such level of poverty there is going to be some child prostitution (hell, it happens in rich countries) but even in Cuba it does not reach even a fraction of the level it does in the Philippines and other Asian and latin American countries whose governments enjoy the full support of the USA and whose customers come mainly from the USA.
>> if you are arguing that Castro finally stopped sponsoring child prostitution in the late 1990’s, that could be true.
This is the old “have you stopped beating your wife?” approach. december, have you stopped beating your wife? Just answer yes or no. Also, have jews stopped drinking the blood of children recently?
You are a despicable fanatic and a liar. Cuba has never mandated child prostitution and, in fact, has probably one of the lowest tolerances for this kind of thing in the world. Please provide credible evidence or retract that insult.
Every time you are called on your lies and distortions you ignore half of what is said and you just distort the other half and wave your hands a lot and cite “a friend of mine”. I am sick and tired of this.
december, the fact that you read it in a book means nothing. Books are full of lies and probably much more in the case of the kind of books you read. For every book you show me which says the Cuban government mandated child prostitution, I can show you dozens which say Jews are evil liars. For every person who believes the Cuban government mandates child prostitution I can show you dozens who believe Jews are the scum of the Earth. So let’s deal with reliable evidence and leave bias and propaganda aside. Where is the reliable evidence showing the Cuban government mandated child prostitution? Where are the edicts? How and when were they implemented? Any witnesses? Any parents whose child was taken from them? (I will note many children were stolen from their parents in Chile and Argentina by governments sponsored by the US). Where are these children now?
I will also note you have not even addressed my other point that you maliciously distorted what I said.
We used to have some pretty intelligent discussions around here before you arrived but now you spoil any thread in which you participate as it just becomes a rebuttal of your idiotic stupidity. i am pretty conservative in my point of view but I cringe at having you on my side of any argument. Why won’t you please just go away and leave us in peace?
Does this december guy hold the record for the most Pit threads dedicated to him? I don’t really read thru them, but there seems to be a brand new one every week or 2 and they always go on for multiple pages.
Has anyone come close to this guys Pit-ness?
december is a major pain in the ass. I have tangled with him in the past but now I just make a point of avoiding any threads where he is participating because they just turn to be a major waste of time where everyone can only try to point out his idiocy. He is a major disruption in every thread and in GD in general. I used to enjoy participating in many threads where now I just have to refrain because I do not want to be entangled in his idiocy.
I made an exception when he accused Cuba’s government of forcing children into prostitution which is, clearly, a blatant lie. His response is “a friend told me and I read it in a book”.
I truly do not understand why he has not been seriously warned or even banned because he is definitely a clear disruption here.
I do not care about ideology but if you make an inflammatory assertion and your only support is “a friend told me and I read it in a book” then you are just disrupting an intelligent discussion other people are trying to have.
By the way I have heard several people say and I have read it in books that Jews are evil. According to december I should believe this.
Sailor, I appeciate your attempt at self-parody. It lightened my morning.
Your joke begins by arguing that a book is not evidence, even though it included an introduction vouching for it by the most famous Peruvian in the world. Mario Vargas Llosa. As we all know, Vargas Llosa is a world-renowned author and was a Presidential candidate. Your subtle humor at comparing this statesman to some antisemitic bigot was a laugh riot.
A friend seeing the situation with his own eyes is not evidence. As the saying goes, *What are you going to beleive? What sailor tells you or your own eyes?
The punch line of the joke comes when you showed us what proper evidence looks like. Proper evidence is simply the application of the magic word “clearly.” That single word constitutes proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Proof of such perfection that anyone disagreeing ought to be Pitted, if not banned. What a card you are!
I appreciate this sort of self-satire. Self-effacing modesty is all to rare on this message board. My only suggestion is that next time you do this, you not forget the smiley. 
december, a book may be wrong. If it contradicts the rest of the known universe then it certainly is wrong. Your friend may be wrong, he may be mistaken or he may be lying. It happens to you all the time and it can happen to your friend. He even may be non existant. All we have is your word that he exists and he said so. Can we question him? How did he gain knowledge that the practice was sponsored by the state? Who did he talk to? What are his sources? Can we ask him a few questions? I am quite certain his mistake or lie would be quite evident if we could question him. And, please, don’t tell us you have received many emails from unnamed people who side with you on this. Your friends imaginary or not are hearsay if not made up or distorted evidence. Bring him here so we can chat with him and question him. In the meanwhile that piece of evidence is worthless.
>> What are you going to beleive? What sailor tells you or your own eyes?
I know Cuba you dumbbass! I have been to Cuba personally. I have friends there and I have Cuban friends in Florida and in Spain. A couple years ago a friend of mine in Spain helped a Cuban friend of ours escape from Cuba although his wife was left behind. She is waiting for her chance. They have clandestine access to email and ICQ and we communicate with them relatively often. For some months I had an ongoing relationship with a Cuban girl and the only way to communicate with her was by email through these friends. You think I do not know Cuba? What the fuck do you know about Cuba?
You read a book, but you won’t tell us what the book says. Just like president Bush we have to trust you when you say the evidence is damning. My guess is the book does not say what you say it says. My guess is you are lying like you often do. The book has an intro by Vargas Llosa. So what? I still don’t know what it says. It probably does not support your position at all. If it does, it is wrong as it contradicts all available evidence. The fact the Vargas LLosa wrote an intro means nothing. He may know the author and not much about the contents of the book.
This is clearly a waste of time. You are asking us to take your word (that in itself is laughable) that you have a book that says what you say it says but you refuse to answer any concrete questions. We just have to take your word that the Cuban government forced children into prostitution. It’s in a book but the greatest opponents of Cuba, the US government and the Cuban expats, have never heard about this. huh?
The readers of the thread can make up their own mind but if anybody has been convinced by your argumants I certainly would like to hear from them. I do not think I need to worry much about who of us has a better or worse reputation on this board or who will be dismissed as a fool.
You know I have mostly chosen not to participate in any of your threads because I do not want to waste my time. The problem is you wreck many threads which would otherwise be interesting topics to participate in. You should be banned not for disagreeing with me or with anybody else but for being the jerk that you are. You have become a major disruption to intelligent exchanges in this board.
So, sailor you have been to Cuba and noticed all the child prostitutes? Strange because all these sources say there’s a lot of them:
If you go the the cite, there are links for each of these reports for your further edification.
Here’s another cite
Then, there’s this from the New Republic – not a right wing source, to say the least.
This site includes similar quotes from numerous other sources,
sailor, all this and more was easily available from google. I await your apology.
Ah, the patented december back-pedal and twist!
You bonehead! He didn’t say there were no child prostitutes in Cuba. He said that the presence of child prostitutes doesn’t imply state sponsorship. He said it multiple times, in fact. You’re being deliberately obtuse, although I’m sure it surprises no one.
>> I await your apology
You are a fucking idiot aren’t you? Not one single cite supports your assertion that the Cuban government mandated or even condoned child prostitution. The fact that it exists does not mean it is mandated or condoned by the government. Huge numbers of people use drugs in America and that does not mean it is mandated or condoned by the government. The numbers for child prostitution are far worse in Costa Rica and other countries which the US supports than in Cuba which the US opposes.
Go take a long walk off a short pier and quit wasting our time.
december, sailor did not deny that child prositution exists in Cuba. Hell it exists in the US. There was a child prositution ring here in Lansing MI that was busted up about a year ago.
however you claimed that it was state sponsored , that the gov. of Cuba, instead of attempting to disuade it, was promoting it, etc etc etc.
this is the claim that requires back up.
The worst part with december is that you go to read his links and not only do they not support him but they often contradict him. In all those links I did not find one single sentence saying the government mandates or condones child prostitution. Not one single sentence. december quotes some phrases indicating there is prostitution and to a much lesser degree child prostitution but he avoids quoting things like “the number of child victims is smaller than other countries in the region”.
>> Strapped for hard currency after the fall of the Soviet Union, Cuba opened up to capitalism a little–and used its women as bait
If this is a crime all ad agency executives would be in jail. Women are used to sell beer, cars and anything else men buy, in the US and everywhere except Saudi Arabia where I would like to see your ass.
wring, that point was covered in several of my cites, and was covered in a quote from the New Republic.
If one wants to be picky, my cites showed
– Extensive government support for and promotion of prostitution
– Extensive child prostitution
It’s true that my cited links didn’t explicitly show extensive government support for child prostitution. (although the book I cited does do that.) However, the two points above more-or-less add up to the combination. (In theory, Cuba could have promoted adult prostitution, but fought child prostitution. However, they evidently didn’t do that. If they had done so, Cuba woudn’t be famous for the availability of child prostitutes.)
Ferrous, I would ask you to read the cites in more detail. The Cuban government conducted an international campaign promoting tourism based on their prostitutes. Obviously they were well aware that many of the prostitutes they boasted of were children.
sailor, when Cuba avertised internationally for tourists to make use of their prostitutes, I’d call it a lot more than just “condoning.”
I do agree with you that, “Women are used to sell beer, cars and anything else men buy…” However, Cuba used women to sell women and girls and boys.
wring, that point was extensively covered in several of the cites in my previous post, including the segment quoted from the New Republic. I will admit that “state sponsored” was not as accurate a phrase as “state promoted” or “state encouraged.” AFAIK the prostitutes don’t actually work for Cuba. (However, I wonder whether the Cuban government receives a cut of their income. Does anyone know whether there is a tax or some other mechanism by which the state gets a share?)
Several of my cites showed
– Extensive government encouragement and promotion of prostitution
– Extensive child prostitution
It’s true that my cited links didn’t specifically show extensive government promotion of child prostitution. (although the book I cited does do that.) However, the two points above more-or-less add up to the combination. (In theory, Cuba could have promoted adult prostitution, but fought child prostitution. However, they evidently didn’t do that. If they had done so, Cuba wouldn’t be famous for the availability of child prostitutes.)
Let’s face it; Cuba set out to be another Bangkok. Adult prostitutes are unfortunately widely available in every country. Tourists don’t travel thousands of miles just to patronize a prostitute. It takes a special attraction.
Ferrous, I would ask you to read the cites in more detail. The Cuban government conducted an international campaign promoting tourism based on their prostitutes. Obviously they were well aware that many of the prostitutes (of whom they were so proud) were children.
sailor, when Cuba advertised internationally for tourists to come and make use of their prostitutes, I’d call it a lot more than just “condoning.”
bullshit
Perhaps some one with another language can communicate effectively w/mr. december.
He seems to still labor under the delusion that he’s supported his claim that Cuba encourages child prostitution.
The U.S. State Department’s Country Reports on Human Rights Practices has this to say about it:
Clearly it’s a problem. You could argue, as you now seem to be doing, that the government isn’t doing enough to stop it, or even that its policies indirectly encourage it. But to go from there to saying the government sponsors it, as you originally did, O master backpeddler, is to distort the facts.
Even if you could find someone fluent in the language of december’s home planet there is no arguing with the personification of tabloid journalism run amok.
Conceeded. Prostitution is not illegal in Cuba(but oddly enough, aiding prostitution is. The distinction seems to be analogus to busting pimps, but not hookers. This might be laudable because often the worst side of prostitution is the exploitation of the prostitute by their “agent”, or involvement by organized crime, mileage, however, obviously varies). The degree of government support for it seems debatable as does the amount of emphasis the practice is given in the promotional materials aimed at tourists.
**
No. This is yet another fallacy. The Fallacy of the Excluded Middle in this case. http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html#isatype
You have failed to show the connection between legal and semi-endorsed(I’ll argue the point of the extent of state support in a moment) ADULT prostitution and illegal, underground, CHILD prostitution. You are now backpedaling away from the word “mandated” aren’t you? You realize that is too ridiculous for even a naieve observer to buy into.
**
I would argue that this is EXACTLY what they did. The fact that it hasn’t worked as well as they may have hoped is not evidence of intent to increase the amount of child prostitution. If the Cuban authorities WANTED to have child prostitution would they have made the age of consent 16? Why are there laws in Cuba which specify prostitutes, who can legally sell their services, must be at least 16?
Allow ME to give a cite. I doubt you’ll actually bother reading it because you seem to have made up your mind. Quite frankly I don’t care if you choose to remain ignorant or not, this is for any lurkers who may have doubts about Cuba authorities stance on child prostitution.
http://www.ageofconsent.com/cuba.htm
That doesn’t sound like a country that has “mandated child prostitution” to me. Can I see a show of hands of who thinks this means that the Cuban government “mandated child prostitution”?
crickets
Thought so.
**
I’d like a scan of a travel brocure or poster, issued by the Cuban Ministry of Tourism, showing a price schedule, or a promise of sex for pay and a picture of an obviously-underage person. The “obviously-underage” bit is important. After all, if it’s not obvious then we can’t be sure that’s the message they meant to send right? If you can’t provide this, and it wouldn’t take long to scan a single page of this “book” you have and post it if that is the evidence you have, then you should retract this claim and offer apologies to those you have inconvenienced by forcing them to dispel the ignorance you are spewing.
I need a cite for the “girls and boys” bit. Women I won’t contend. The scanned image I spoke of earlier should do nicely. I’ll put it right next to the memo from Janet Reno’s office telling the agents who were in charge of retrieving Elian Gonzales to injure reporters and damage their equipment to ensure no records were made of their illegal activities. Thanks for providing that memo in support of an earlier outrageous claim you made by the way. Oh wait, you didn’t. You had no evidence then, you have none now. Take a seat december.
Enjoy,
Steven
Cuba has never advertised prostitution. I have seen their ads and thay show scantily clad women on the beach or performing in the cabarets. It is the same type of publicity that you see for Las Vegas or for the beaches in Southern Europe.
december continues to ignore the fact that the report says there is less child prostitution in Cuba than in the rest of the countries of the area.
He continues to equivocate between adult prostitution and child prostitution
december everybody here but you understands what I am saying. Not one single person is buying your arguments.
I do not know why I even waste my time with him.