You’re right, incredibly mild.
And I just knew you would do the retard “I’m not your buddy” thing. Thanks for following the script.
Please. I am so sick and tired of this whole southern pride, we’re polite, the northerners are rude thing. I’m a “yankee” :rolleyes: and I, and pretty much everybody I know, have impeccable manners. In my experience from having spent a lot of time in Missouri, Arkansas, and Tennessee (visiting mom’s side of the family), the ratio of polite people to fucking jerks is pretty much equal.
I didn’t say I’m not YOUR buddy, I said I’m not A buddy. I’m a woman.
And mild meaning the foulmouthed portion on the linked thread. She’s still up to her normal tricks being angry and insulting as usual otherwise.
Beaucarnea, I get the impression that you may misunderstand what a feminist is. It’s a person, female or male, who believes in equal social, political and economic rights for females (and by implication, for both sexes).
I understand well catsix’s point of view, I think. It is very annoying to be patronized and treated as some helpless ninny. It mattered a lot more to me thirty years ago when the disparity was much greater. It’s still bad enough and I’m glad to see that women like catsix still speak their minds.
Like a few others here, I solved the problem of “doors” by holding them for most people when I am the first one there. (My husband prefers to hold the door for me and I don’t mind deferring to him.) If a man or woman holds the door for me, I smile and express my thanks.
If a man ever said anything such as, “There you go, little lady,” I would respond with a smile and a clearly spoken “Thank you, little man.” I want him to understand how the words feel to me. So far, that hasn’t happened. It might not bother some women, but I don’t like being described with those words no matter what his intention was.
Poor baby. Here, sit down and catch your breath. Want some brandy?
Not if you say, “No, thank you.”
A memory that spans over sixty years of experience as a female. But I’m not going to worry my pretty little head about it right now.
Seriously, it most certainly is:
Two things I don’t understand:
-
Why don’t you want to be polite to men in general other than the infirm, elders and the uncomfortable and exhausted? If you hold the door for “ladies,” why not for “gentlemen”?
-
Why do you choose to use the term ladies which suggests a kind of behavior? Why not use the (ahem) broader term women?
Interesting contribution to the SDMB. Welcome!
Mishell, so sorry to hear about your mother’s side of the family. Bless your heart.
I haven’t been on this board long enough to get a handle on anyone’s particular personalities, so I certainly didn’t have preconceived notions about catsix before I wandered into this thread and then checked out the one that inspired it. If anything, I was inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt since I am always a little suspicious of pitting other posters.
But then I read the other thread and she comes off as a crank and thoroughly unpleasant person. I couldn’t name anyone else on this board who has put me off so badly, so quickly. Take that how you will.
Oddly enough, I found myself agreeing with Ghanima’s post more than I would have expected. I noticed nobody else has touched that one. Initially it raised my hackles because it does imply that women need to be taken care of more than men. I don’t agree with this, but there are a lot of reasonable points in that post. I think that refusing to acknowledge differences between people is ultimately harmful for a society.
Perhaps this means I’m not the perfect feminist (FWIW, I have a degree in Women’s Studies), but I don’t think the answer is absolute equality, as in sameness. What I believe in is equal respect for all. Respect includes embracing differences, which may include treating people differently. I don’t believe that accepting a seat offered to me even though I am capable of standing means I must therefore accept 70 cents for every dollar a man makes.
These things are NOT respectful gestures:
- Opening a door for a woman because you want to check out her ass
- Giving up a seat for a woman so you can chat her up & get a number
- When the woman politely declines, continuing to insist and thinking she’s a bitch for refusing your oh-so-gallant offer.
These things ARE respectful gestures:
- Opening a door for a woman because you were raised that it is the courteous thing to do.
- Giving up your seat for an observably impaired person (due to pregnancy, packages, age, injury, etc.) because they need it more than you do.
- Giving up your seat to a young woman who just ran a triathalon because she’s probably very tired!
I think you just demonstrated the ability to perceive your own point of view.
It is just as much an insult to assume ill intent for a kind gesture as it is to offer a kindness out of a false sense of superiority. If he had said something implying a shortcoming of some sort, you might be supported in your assumption, but the simple act of offering you a seat is not rude. Imputing some assumed intent to insult is not logical, nor supported by evidence, and in the case of strangers, certainly is rude. If you don’t want to sit, simply say “No, thank you.”
If that burden of civility is too great to bear, simply say “No.” If you have a prospect of a long association with the person, you might well say “Please do not offer me any gallantries, I do not find them pleasant.” Or choose words to that effect, with your own preferred level of courtesy.
Many people offer habitual and ritual minor kindnesses to others because of long training, and habit. It would be foolish to assume any great level of character in them as a consequence. But it would just as foolish to assume ill of them because of it. Into the balance, if you do so, you will be considered rude by many people whatever your philosophy might be.
Tris
It’s short and accurately describes the situation. It means ‘to produce offpsring; give birth to or hatch’. It also indicates that I view pregnancy as nothing special. I don’t think of it as an accomplishment worthy of congratulations. Every species is biologically programmed to produce more of that species. Why are those who make more humans supposedly so special?
You think ‘pee on a stick’ is foulmouthed and you still assert that I’m the one who’s not from Earth?
Wow. That’s the most sheltered defnition of ‘foulmouthed’ I’ve heard in years.
This is exactly what it means to want to remove all difference between the sexes except when that gender-biased treatment is advantageous to you.
If this seat/door thing is so quaint and nice, then perhaps we should also keep the ‘be waiting with his slippers and cocktail when he gets home.’
The evidence based on discussions with people who do this seems to be that they only offer up their seats to women and disabled men. If they were just being polite, they’d be offering their seats to able bodied men too, but they aren’t.
Have you ever seen a man offer his seat to another able-bodied man?
I’m not one of those people who say ‘let’s keep the differences so long as they benefit me.’
Mother’s Day wasn’t a really big to do at your place, was it? :rolleyes:
If the husband thinks so and the wife thinks so and it’s their home, then absolutely. Likewise if a couple likes to come home and wear each other’s clothing while singing Wagner, I couldn’t care less. How does this “pick your pocket or break your leg” enough to concern you?
Ultimately it’s just a non-issue. If you don’t want to give up your seat then don’t. If you’re offered a seat and feel it’s insulting then don’t take it. Don’t make an ass of yourself as it will accomplish absolutely nothing and is far more likely to ultimately harm you than the “offending” party.
Does that cover it enough to end the discussion? For as Little Eric C. observed, “Wha’evah, wha’evah, I do what I want!”
Why does it matter so much who the person offers their seat to when you’re not around?
The evidence based on the discussion with people who do this seems to be that they are doing it to be polite, that they are doing this because they have been raised to think that doing this is a nice thing to do. You certainly do not have to take the seat, but don’t start making assumptions that the person offering thinks that you are less able of a person. Then you are simply looking for a reason to be offended.
I’m not going to try to argue over the origins of the behaviors. I’m just as sure as some that they harken back to a day where women were viewed as frail and whatnot. What some of you aren’t realizing is that the motives for the behaviors have changed over time. You don’t have to take the seat offered, and you don’t have to walk through the door that is being held open for you. Just don’t start feeling demeaned because someone was trying to do something nice for you.
:strikesupDixieonbanjo: 
Not really, no. My mum wasn’t even receptive to getting a gift or a card or anything.
It’s an antiquated process that should find its way into the history books. I’m hoping it will.
It’s Diana, sugar. And what I actually did was to ask **kayT ** why she feels that people often treat her as helpless, and to make a couple of *general * statements of my opinon about the sort of people who get their panties in a bunch over acts of courtesy. Observe:
I can totally see, how someone who was just skimming the thread for trolling opportunities would make that mistake, though.
My only real opinon about catsix is that I find it wholly believable that she, like many people, is much more pleasant in real life, where behavior has real-life consequences.
catsix , the irony that I started a pit thread thrashing you for having bad manners is not lost on me. I apologize for my attack. But I stand by the suggestions that you take that chip off your shoulder and respect the assertions that not everyone- male or female- who offers you assistance is trying to undermine your abilities and independence.
If you swagger around at work like you have a pair it is possible that someone might try to undercut you a little by offering to perform work for you. And if you chose to react or overreact to that I don’t blame you.
But be aware that strangers likely have no ulterior motive- they are just being nice. Or following an old tradition. Or maybe just offering seats or opening doors is just rote or habit.
Mostly we do it because it makes us feel good. Don’t take kindness as a personal insult. Let someone be nice to you; or politely decline.
Cynicism absent humor is bitterness.
Since you deliberately choose words infused with cynicsm, it probably doesn’t surprise you that people are repelled by you. This appears to be your goal.
I don’t think having a broken leg makes someone special, either, but I’d still give them my seat on the train.
Soooo…
…aaaanyone in this thread ever been a member of childfree on LJ?
Just asking, no reason…
That’s a noble goal, I suppose, but if you think that any effort on your part along the lines of being rude to someone who offers will help it along, you are mistaken. As others have noted, a polite " No thanks," or even a polite discussion of why it offends you would accomplish more.
I wonder, catsix, if you truly think that men who offer you a seat have thought through the whole thing to the extent that you have.
I can see your point that the history of the gesture is less than flattering of men’s opinions of women. But do you seriously think that your average guy brought up to believe that it was polite to offer a women a seat has examined the history of the gesture? I hadn’t thought of the history of the gesture! And I’m a woman who doesn’t like being treated like a helpless female. Of course, no one has ever offered me a seat because I’ve never ridden a public bus/train/subway*.
Can’t you give people the benefit of the doubt? You say you want to educate, but you rail against posters who don’t agree with you. Perhaps in the future those posters will consider your posts when a woman rudely doesn’t accept his gesture. Has you made your points in a less…bitchy…way, it may have been because they learned that some women have been treated as helpless so many times that they just can’t handle it again. Now I believe they will just think “Nobody told me catsix would be in town.”
*Holy shit, I think I’ve just outed myself as a hick.