Some of us get the luxury of dealing with the fact that our parents are not perfect at a time when we’re not dealing with another life crisis. It’s not always easy, even then. If the OP’s friend hasn’t come to that realization yet, she may get a double whammy of having to deal with that and the rape at the same time. If that’s the case, she may need someone to talk to about her parents as well.
I agree with what you’re saying here. I just don’t think that it’s the OP’s place to force that realization on her, if she’s not ready for it. If she brings up her parents’ reaction, I think the OP should limit himself to criticizing their position, not their persons.
You, I, and anyone else is free to criticize them here for their close-mindedness, and judgmental attitude. When someone is as hurting as the woman in the OP is, ISTM that the tendency is to cling to anyone who is felt to be safe and familiar - even if they’re adding to the person’s pain. Trying to force a rupture with her parents now, when ISTM that she’s scrambling for any foundation she can hold to seems like it could make things worse.
I have seen well-meaning people push someone into closer association with a damaging relationship by trying to force that person to see that the hurtful person wasn’t safe for them. Worse, if the OP presses to the point where the woman feels the need to choose between the OP and her parents, if she’s not ready to hear that criticism of her parents, she’ll put barriers between the OP and herself.
Again - I don’t disagree about how hateful, and fucked up the reported behavior of her parents is. I just fear that pressing for an acknowledgment of that from this woman at this time may do more harm than good.
Obviously, this is just my opinion, and worth all you paid for it.
Yeah, I’d initially read your post more as sort of excusing their behavior, whereas now I see that your intention was to suggest more how to approach it with the friend.
To force it, no. To be supportive of her if she does indeed go through this realization, yes. I think limiting himself to criticizing what they said about this rape and not their persons is an excellent idea.
He should be supportive of her whichever way she decides to go- if she decides to cut her parents out of her life, or if she doesn’t. That applies whether he thinks she’s making the right choice or the wrong one. It’s her decision to make, not his, and he does not know the whole story of her relationship with her parents.
Even right decisions don’t come guaranteed free from pain and regrets, and his friend may need someone to help her through whatever she decides.
Shattered is pretty much what it feels like, so you’re not wrong. Disconnected is another excellent word – you feel like the world’s passing by, but you’re not part of it. Regardless, as the others have said, just don’t fall into the trap of reinforcing that state in her. What she needs is every possible encouragement toward strength.
I read the other thread and am very sorry to hear that her parents said what they did. Support from my then-boyfriend and parents was wonderful for me – they weren’t perfect, but they were there and never blamed me in the slightest, not even saying things like that I should have chosen a different apartment, or locked my windows, or shit like that that people tend to fall back on when they know the victim is blameless by any rational standard but can’t escape the need to place blame despite that. You can at least try to provide that form of support for her.
And @ John Mace about it being worse due to being betrayed as well as assaulted – quite possibly. I’ve always felt grateful in a perverse sort of way that when I was raped, it was by a stranger; at least I didn’t have to deal with trust issues on top of everything else. But any severe trauma can produce suicidal impulses and despair; it’s at least as much a biological thing as a psychological one. I vividly remember returning home from work one day a month or two after I was raped and having the strong urge to swerve my car into the concrete lane divider. I was doing pretty well; I wasn’t despairing or hopeless or even sad; but the compulsion was there nevertheless. Just one of those weird human things, and I’m glad it passed quickly.
Good luck to you and your friend, Jose.
Yikes, I would avoid flowers, under the circumstances. Though it didn’t happen with my rape, the one time I was fooled by a romantic interest who turned unexpectedly into a stalkerish, pushy creep, the last thing I wanted was for my male friends to show any sign of romantic interest. Even any smallest sign sort of freaked me out.
In light of Normal Phase’s comment,** Jose**, am I wrong in getting the vibe that you have feelings for this girl? Your comments about her border on reverence, which is not a bad thing by any means, but definitely suggest there may be more in your heart than a feeling of friendship.
If that’s the case, I would definitely keep that on the downlow while she’s working through this stuff. Trust me, when the time comes that she’s ready for a relationship again, she will NOT forget your unwavering, unconditional support though one of the most hellish times of her life.
Oh, no, I do not have romantic feelings for this girl. I admire her for her mind and because she is one of the best persons I know. I guess that I may have appeared as passionate in what I wrote… But it was more an expression of my frustration and my anger at the situation. She is a very, very dear friend, and people who know her tend to like her very much for her good qualities.
And, of course, even if I had any romantic feelings for her, I would never think about acting on them in times like these! I would say that that would be the last thing she would need!
But thanks for your comments and your concern, olivesmarch4th!
There’s flowers and flowers. I don’t think anybody would mistake a couple of white flowers for a dozen red roses…
As a victim of suicide I wanna chime in and say “fuck you” to anyone who thinks that the only way out is to subject us to the most selfish act imaginable.
We’re in the Pit, aren’t we?
Yes, we are!
Claude, FUCK OFF! Thank you.
Pretty much what I was thinking, Nava.
Have you read the rest of this thread, Claude? Do you have any tiny little shreds of compassion lurking anywhere inside you? You really think that saying “fuck you” to a suicidal rape and assault victim whose parents have told her it’s her own fault is an appropriate response, do you?
You make me sick. I can only hope that you’re unique in your loathsome, revolting mindset, though I fear otherwise. I hope that no one close to you is ever raped, because you’ll make the experience exponentially worse, with views like that.
Honestly, if you get to the point of being suicidal, thinking of others in your life might help you to not go through with it.
BUT IT ISN’T ABOUT THEM, and it isn’t being selfish towards others if you end your own life.
Not that I want anyone to do this. But having been there and tried that, I most definitely understand how, at the point you are ready to do it, it ceases to be about anyone else and becomes all about not wanting to continue in your own pain.
And that would be the message I would have for people like Claude: Dude, it wasn’t about you. It was because that person was in so much pain that they simply could not continue. Sure, you may think they could have gotten help. Perhaps they could have, perhaps they didn’t believe they would get the help they wanted (as opposed to needed), or perhaps the pain overwhelmed all logic and it simply became about ending that pain. But while your attitude tends to be one that is fostered in the name of preventing suicides, it does tend to come off a little selfish in that it was not, nor was it ever about YOU.
If you’re a victim of suicide, that means you killed yourself. Where are you posting from?
According to the OP, they’re close friends, and she’s in the hospital. When people are in the hospital, it’s pretty common to send flowers. It’s not a romance thing.
Claude, the only way suicide is “selfish” is that you can’t think of anything BUT your own pain. It’s impossible – that’s the nature of the beast. It isn’t about YOU or anyone else.
So go fuck yourself with a meat hook.
Thank goodness she has you, JoseB. Everyone needs somebody outside their direct day to day life that they can confide in, and it sounds like you’re that somebody. As emotionally wrapped up in this as you are, you’ll still be able to provide a more rational take on things than her or her neighborhood friends will.
I wish you and your friend nothing but the best in overcoming this hurdle. I’m sure the pain never completely goes away, but it can become much, much easier to cope with. One day a year from now, she may find a girl in a similar situation to the events that lead up to this. If she can help this girl, then she will truly be vindicated. Again, best wishes and thank you for contributing to the world population of awesome people.
No, it’s not just about her. Rapists seldom stop at just one victim. He is an ongoing danger to other women and the the public at large. It’s immaterial what she wants done. Other people are still at risk.
When Dio & I agree, you know it has to be right. (I hope this isn’t making you reconsider, Dio S).
Before everyone piles on Claude, IIRC he’s a young fellow so let’s take it a bit easy on him until we find out if he’s old enough to know better.
Not meaning to pile on him, it’s nothing personal. As I stated, the point of view he is expousing has been used as an attempt to make people reconsider their intent to kill themselves by getting them to think about all the people who love them. The unfortunate backlash is that it makes people who have lost love ones use it as an excuse for blaming the victim.
After my best friend blew his brain out and my wife did the trick with a 750ml bottle of Jack and a handfull of Klonopin perhaps my view is a little skewed.
I apologize for shitting here.