More than anything else, I’m troubled by the boiler-room telemarketing angle on all this. First off, I’m bugged that good people who took an oath to protect and defend are reduced to characters in Glengarry Glen Ross. Hazardous duty goes with the territory, humiliating duty does not. Plus, the performance pressures clearly place a premium on salesmanship, which is so close to lying as to not matter. Soldiers should not have to lie for their country, we have diplomats for that.
To be fair, my viewpoint is slanted, I do not believe we, as a nation, have a need to be the most powerful military power in human history. The cost is ruinous, but that’s only part of it. Even if we could afford it easily, so long as we have overwhelming military might at hand, then so long we will be tempted to use it, for that long we will be tempted to send good men on fool’s errands. When you are a hammer, you tend to see all problems as nails.
But that leads to a much higher level of hijack, so I’ll back away with simply this: I wish this weren’t happening to you guys, but I’m damned if I know what I can do about it that I’m not already doing. And a poor enough effect achieved, for forty years of trying.
More than I want good people serving their country, I want a country that deserves such service. And I fear we are far, far short of the mark.
OK, a useless and probably needlessly flip question from the peanut gallery: when I was an inexplicably but apparently desirable candidate for the Navy back in the day (1992), I couldn’t get the recruiter to stop calling me until I told him I was a flat-footed lesbian Communist (all untrue, except for the Communist part). I understand that our new President might be changing the don’t-ask-don’t-tell policy so the lesbian gambit might be off the table, but what about the rest of it?
And in actual seriousness: do people still get calls if they are conscientious objectors? Do they keep track of that somewhere?
Well, with regard to the dignity with which the Army treats its people - regardless of job - I’ll just say that every time I talk to my friend who did join the army after graduating, I’m reminded (and sometimes even told by him) that the Army is one of the most idiotically-run, bloated organizations in the world.
In fact, his words were: “I love my job, but I really hate being in the Army.” He’s apparently spending the week sitting out in the middle of nowhere in the woods on his base, guarding a truck which is full of blank ammunition. He is doing this because he has a broken leg and thus didn’t leave for some training course he was supposed to. He is an officer, so he is getting paid a not-insignificant amount for doing so. Tax money well spent, I guess.
Theres got to more going on than that, Ninjachick. I can’t even imagine an officer that would be put on guard duty for blank ammunition. Unless your friend is in the worst, most idiotic unit in military history.
Apparently, he was supposed to leave with most of his unit (I think) for some sort of training today. Unfortunately, he broke his leg a few days ago - apparently he was forced by some in-charge person to run on it even though he had a medical ‘profile’ saying he wasn’t supposed to due to a minor stress fracture. So him and I think he said four or five people who didn’t go to this training got stuck with this asinine guard duty.
From what he says, he is mostly surrounded by idiots, though, so I don’t know. He’s also still bouncing around through various training stuff himself, because apparently if you join as an officer you can spend, like, two damn years training (is it possible that there’s some officer training course called “bollocks”? Because we didn’t have a great connection but I swear that it sounded like he kept saying it.)
If he has a profile, he cannot be ordered to break that profile. Its a different thread to go through the various reasons for profiles though, and I’m not feeling too well tonight so I don’t have the energy to go through them.
I’ve done telemarketing, so I understand the crap recruiters get from people. It sucks.
My SO got a bunch of calls from a navy recruiter when he was in high school, he told them repeatedly that he wasn’t interested. Finally his mom answered the phone one time and said ‘I’m sorry he’s not here right now. He’s out on a date with his boyfriend.’ They never called again.
Yeah, we are supposed to get the rest of that day off and the next, but it takes me about 2 hours to drive back from the MEPS, and another 30 minutes to get copies of all the documents. By 1930, I no longer think of it as time off. Now we can’t get the next day unless we write two. The next step will be two quality, but I really don’t care about time off anymore. I have leave coming up for the first time in thirteen months, and may not get it if MEPS fucks me over again. (This person may have had scoliosis, you need to prove that the fight at school was not assault of a family member, etc.) Yeah, I hate this job. The funny thing is that I love being a Soldier. I know a lot of people reading this may not understand that, but I will put up with this for another two years so I can get back to being a leader of Soldiers…the backbone of the Army. I want competence to be my watchword. I am looking forward to the day when I only have two important responsibilities: *Accomplisment of my mission and the welfare of my Soldiers. *
Hell, Jolly Roger, you know the rest.
Look, Cartooniverse, I know you think you know what you are talking about, because you probably heard this from FOAF or some old hippie type smoking dope on the street corner. I can tell you facts, and when you make your call to the SC, you can confirm these facts.
1). Your son, hell anyone, will be eligible to receive the Army college fund from day one of reporting to his or her unit. That means that the Soldier gets the money BEFORE he or she is eligible for deployment. At a minimum an Initial Entry Soldier must be in a unit for 90 days before he/she can be deployed. That means all training completed and stationed and improcessed to a post such as Ft Drum, Ft Hood, etc. So, the money is there from the start. You don’t need a credit check, you don’t have to show financial need, just be otherwise qualified.
2). Telling me that college students who do not enlist in the Army have no chance of serious injury is a stretch. Loss of eye, arm, leg and whatever else happens to college student too. Ever see an actuarial chart for death and serious injury? Know who is most at risk for death by accidents, suicide and overdose? That is right, those of the college student age, generally 18-24. Know what, we take care of our Soldiers. You can ask any Soldier on this board what a weekend safety briefing consists of, and I will bet, that almost all will say the same thing.
The Army cares about its young men and women. Leadership will do all it can to make sure the young people that keep us Army Strong will be here tomorrow to do the same thing.
Finally, I know there are some jobs out there that involve the risk of death. Hell, I jump out of perfectly good airplanes because the Army pays me to. But there are also jobs that are much safer. You never hear of a squad of finance clerks holding a position. CNN never tells you about the company cook that had thirty-five confirmed kills, because it doesn’t happen. The Army is totally self-sufficient. That means that the Postal Clerks in the Army are at as much risk as Mr MeFeely. Look into some of the jobs that the Army has and tell me where the risk is.
Some people may be skeptical of this statement. It is the god’s honest truth. Not only the Army, but the Air Force cares about them as well. I spent a (mercifully) few 24 hour stretches in Bagram busting my ass to give the best care possible to the (mercifully) few soldiers/marines that came through my OR. I wasn’t special, every surgeon, nurse and tech there did, too. I loved them all. Would’ve given my arms to keep them from losing theirs.
Sorry, didn’t mean to disparage any member of the Military Service, but the OP was about the Army, and I am in the Army. I actually typed Military when I first wrote my comments, but then I changed it to Army to satisfy the OP.
Thank you for your service, Lucretia.
Speaking as an old hippy type, I resent the competition in unpatriotic slander and disinformation from this “FOAF”. Who are these people? We need to keep up to date, if our efforts to undermine the Republic are to bear fruit.
In my experience, the soldiers who complained they were surrounded by “idiots” were always the worst soldiers in terms of abilities, temperament, social skills, and often physical fitness.
Yeah, I do. When my time in recruiting came near, it was also the end of my term of enlistment. They were extending guys in recruiting left and right though. I refused to reeinlist because I didn’t want to be involuntarily extended in recruiting. My physical and mental health was deteriorating. Blood pressure was around 180/112 on a good day, still they wouldn’t release me from recruiting. So I said the hell with it.
finally my branch manager told me I was not on the extension list. I knew the guy, too. So he arranged for me to go to McDill AFB in Tampa to Special Ops Command. As soon as I reenlisted USAREC extened me. Branch was pissed as they didn’t go through the usual channels. Its a long story, but the IG got involved and they dropped the extension. I won’t derail the thread, but USAREC fucked up my orders enough to cause me to lose the slot in Tampa, but I got Europe out of the deal. They also screwed up my records so I didn’t get paid for 4 months!
So yeah, I hate USAREC with the hate of a 1000 devils. I don’t like or trust them and recruiters that are converted rather than detailed I don’t have much time for.
Its unfortunate Elucidator, but what happens is an “us against them” thing. Folks badmouth the soldiers, they take it personally and then they start badmouthing the folks that badmouthed them. It is rather pointless, but I was shocked the first time some woman called me a baby killer and threw a can at me. I was buying a fucking ice cream cone and not bothering anyone at all. I’m sure Schwartz didn’t mean any insult towards you though.
Its been my experience, too, Gala…but I don’t know Ninjachick or her friend or where he is stationed, etc. Thats why I said theres more going on there upthread. Something doesn’t make sense in wht short part of the story we’ve heard. Perhaps someone more involved in the nature of the situation could throw light on it. I usually am in a staff or battalion slot, so I have limited experience with that kid of thing. (though now I am in a company level slot)
Of course not. That’s why I used the “gentle irony” setting, because its nothing personal. If it were personal, I tend towards the “hopping mad”.
But I fear that the “us against them” thing is more about the long-standing cultural divide between civilians and those who serve. This is not the time nor place to explore that, suffice to say it is on my short list of Very Bad Things.
And, for the record, I have been an active participant in the “counter culture” almost all my adult life. I am certain, beyond the slightest doubt, that no one I know has ever publicly dissed a uniformed soldier. Ever. Period. Full stop.
But the real point of my question was: who is this “FOAF” and why is this the first time that I, a DFH of long standing, have never heard of them?
Oh, goodness, no offense taken. I’m just very lately back from Afghanistan, and it’s all very fresh in my mind. That, and I was feeling a tad maudlin after the better part of a bottle of wine. And, it was absolutely my pleasure and honor.
I understood the spirit of your post, as you understood mine. I will try to forward you the minutes of the last meeting in Dallas. Just don’t tell anyone where you got them.
Cartooniverse, I think I went to the cannons too soon and you were the first worthy target. No offense taken and only a small bit (to be totally honest) meant to be given. There are just some buttons that get pressed to frequently, and as a matter of fact, I think that was the purpose of the OP.
Best to you.
That really is something that needs to get taken care of. I know for a fact that Brooke Army Medical Center is one of the best I have seen, but all should be of that quality. Regardless of how anyone feels about the war, about the Army, or military service in general, these are Americans that are doing a job that most Americans choose not to do. They deserve better. Again, I will send another e-mail to my Congressman and remind him of that fact.
When I was in my senior year in High School, the Army would. not. leave. me. alone. In all seriousness, there were times when I contemplated suicide, just so I wouldn’t have Army recruiters calling all the time.
One night, they came to my house! Mammahomie insisted that I be polite, so I sat there at the dining room table for over an hour as recruiter tried ever so desperately to convince me to join. I have no idea what good he thought the Army was going to do me: I had long hair, a chip on my shoulder that could be seen with the naked eye, and I got winded after playing chess. Anyway, after a while I just simply stood up, walked to my room, and locked the door, leaving the recruiter sitting at the table. Eventually he just packed up and left, not knowing what else to do.
