The world is black, the world is white, together we…
Seriously, though - the SDMB leans to the left, IMHO. Which means the conservative right-wing Dopers have to be brilliant (i.e. Scylla, Polycarp) to survive.
There’s room for us all here, I would hope?
I haven’t been around long enough to digest December’s posts, but I for one choose to trust that the Pit Adminsitrators have chosen the best course.
I can see how some Americans would think that the SDMB leans to the left, but at a non-American, I would not say that the SDMB leans to the left. Quite simply, both the left and the right n the USA are on the right from my non-American perspective.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by SentientMeat *
**A shame in many respects. december was, to me, an excellent demonstration of just how startlingly right-wing the USA is compared to the rest of the first world. Foreign Dopers who wish to gain some insight into what wins a US election could simply click on a december OP. Many a time I have read the news thinking how the hell can they possibly justify that?!, only to later find some crumb of reason amongst his invariably myopic and amoral duckspeak which at least explains why America thinks it’s doing the right thing.
And you do not fight ignorance by barring your opponent from the ring - numerous comments by a moderator that your methods are out of line are enough to continually discredit you in the eyes of new members who might have come to the SDMB specifically to learn how to debate people like december. Think on this:[ul][li]The party whose intelligence-insulting doublethink december parroted, mindlessly and endlessly, is the party in power.[/ul]Sleep tight. **[/li][/QUOTE]
As a fairly new, fairly left-wing person, and British to boot, I’d just like to second this post wholeheartedly.
The SDMB is the only place I’ve ever found where I can get access to intelligent, articulate right-wing opinion. I’ve also found it interesting to see how words like “liberal” or “conservative” carry different meanings and nuances in the US, and to observe the (to me, and, I’d guess, other UK citizens) bizzarely passionate interest in religious debates.
If you want a debate with the Right here in the UK, you must choose between the anodyne platitudes offered by the demoralised and fragmented Conservative Party, a fair amount of cynical and fact-free journalism, and a sort of groundswell of inarticulate racist bigotry (unfortunately on the increase). I think this tends to make the Left here complacent and insular - with the Labour party in power (albeit a very conservative version), left-leaners read their own newspapers, attack the Government rather than the Right and remain impotently baffled by the Bush administration, failing utterly to understand the mindsets of the Americans who support him.
So, to return to the subject, I don’t want to comment on December specifically, but with the exception of the few (usually temporary) idiot-bigot posters on these boards (plenty of those over here too), I find the right-wing dopers highly illuminating and educational - which is the point of the site, isn’t it?
**
You’re not reading into it enough.
That’s a contradiction in terms. The truth, by it’s very nature, is always conservative.
Then how the hell did slavery get abolished?
Patently untrue. The truth is often radical and can be liberal.
A Republican did it, of course.
What, did you think some Democrat was gonna empathize the slaves to freedom?
Awwright, gimme a furrinstance.
Don’t dress this up in a two party suit - it takes change to accomplish certain feats. By its definition, conservatism does not favour change. Washington may have been a Republican, but when he abolished slavery, he acted progressively.
Coldfire:
Actually the idea that conservatism is not progressive is popular but false.
Barry Goldwater, the father of modern conservatism was the driving force behind the integration of our armed forces.
He also sought full recognition for openly gay people in the military. Gay people in the military is a conservative issue, and in large part we are much more progressive than “don’t ask, don’t tell.”
That was Lincoln. 16th President. Also, reinstate December along with an apology.
Um, actually it was Lincoln, not Washington, but yes, he was a Republican.
Although I very much doubt that old Abraham L. would find much in common with the current crop of Republicans.
exactly correct. We do not favor change.
We respect the law of unintended consequences.
I think this is a wise way to go.
If you had a Doctor who favored open heart surgery you would probably be wise to be leery of the guy.
A conservative works with reality. He knows that things can be good but they are likely never to be perfect. The default proposition of a conservative contemplating change is “let’s not fuck things up worse than they are.”
If you’ve ever tried to fix something that was slightly broken but still workable and then totally fucked it up, you can appreciate conservatism.
Not favoring change is a wise way to go.
But there is a corrollary to “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it.”
I really don’t believe this.
To those of you who are convinced that december was banned because of his political views or because many other members were jumping down his throat with no provocation – you’re nuts. If you’re that paranoid, if you really think the moderators would behave this way, then stand by your convictions and go to some other Message Board. You can find one that’s not ruled by pinko-liberal-commies (or are we red-neck right-wing fascists? I forget) and you’ll be much happier. (Why do the colors pink and red come into both sides of the political spectrum? But I digress.)
I mean, Holy Mother of Pearl, get a grip on reality here.
Once more: december was banned AND many members were jumping down his throat for the same reason: he had a long, long tradition of posting deliberately inflamatory comments that were false. Whether those comments were right-wing, left-wing, centrist, or religious, is completely irrelevant. He was banned for repeated misbehaviour, after several explicit warnings.
The mods debated, for a long long time, whether december was using acceptable (if annoying) debating techniques. We agreed that he was usually way across that line. We told december so, explicitly and clearly, on several occasions. He persisted.
The last violation, which was quoting Clinton and pretending it was Bush, is about as explicit as one can get. I repeat, tossing out false but shocking statement just to see what effect they create is trolling. (Someone asks whether it would be trolling if a 75-year-old did it, seeking attention, and my answer is: yep!)
The alternate explanation – that december believed his own posts – is belied by the Clinton/Bush example. And that explanation means that he was extremely stupid or extremely gullible, and I don’t credit either of those explanations.
So, we have a long series of behaviours that we aren’t sure whether we’ve got a troll or not… and then we have a couple where there’s no doubt, it’s clearly trolling.
The last of the moderators defending him agreed that this was the final straw. In short, although I have done the banning and am principal spokes-mod, this was a unanimous decision of all the moderators.
We are NOT a court of law. A series of tiny offenses builds up until the weight is overwhelming. Our patience has limits, and the last drop overflows the cup, the last straw breaks the camel’s back, choose your metaphor.
<< This is a tacid admission that december did not violate a specific rule, the staff is just tired of dealing with the reactions of people to december. I stand by what I said earlier: December was banned not for what he said but for how people reacted to him. >>
This is a grotesque distortion, because an important word is left out. The staff was tired of dealing with december’s behaviours. The staff don’t give two shits in hell about how people react to his political stance. The staff do care about how people react (and how staff reacts) to his behaviours.
Why do we moderate the boards at all? Because we care how people behave, and we care how people react to misbehaviours. That’s why we delete spam, prohibit advertisements, force topics into appropriate forums, etc etc. Moderated boards are moderated so that all participants can be held to certain standards of behaviour. december did not abide by those standards.
Period.
I’ve said this (in various ways) three times.
Those of you who still think the banning was unfair: tough. Your best approach would be to file an protest in triplicate, be sure to keep the yellow copy for your files.
OK, while I was drafting that last post, I see that we’ve had a flurry of political name-calling. I said before: this is a thread about december, not about how the conservatives are dirty money-grubbing liars, not about how the liberals are obnoxious knee-jerk mush.
Everything that anyone has to say about december has been said, several times.
We’re done with this, folks.