Did I do the right thing? (very long)

Keep in mind, I’m a very talkative girl. :o

You’ve pretty much got it - I’m not over the whole thing. Otherwise this wouldn’t be a problem. :wink:

My husband, as I said, is a saint, and my hero, and he knows this. It’s hard on him, too, but for different reasons. He loved this guy, too - obviously not the same way I did, but they were best friends for years. We both loved this guy. My husband and I both fall back sometimes, and we support each other. Sometimes he goes and asks our mutual friend about the ex on his own, just out of his own morbid curiousity. Sometimes, we both have to tell each other to stop picking at it!
You’ll have to take my word for it that we’re happily married, though. We’re both pretty reasonable people, and we know we’re both human who make mistakes, we fall down, and sometimes we do stupid things (including dwelling on silly things). This man taught me that love is easy, not stressful; trusting, and not suspicious. The ex doesn’t cause any marital strain. I can sometimes be an emotional and melodramatic girl - I try not to be, but I’d be lying if I said it never happened. My dear husband knew what he was taking on when he married me, and he knew I was still carrying emotional baggage. I made damn sure he knew that. :smiley: He said he doesn’t care if it takes me until I’m 90 to get over it (or anything else), he loves me and knows I love him in return. Seriously, my husband is a patient, kind, understanding, and very loving man. But you know something? I deserve him, because I’m the same way.

My major problem, as it has been in the past in other situations, is that I’m very soft hearted. I hate to think I caused anyone pain, even if they deserved it. It
is also partly ego and also appearances: am I being a bitch? I don’t want to be a bitch. Honestly, I think that’s where a lot of my worry is stemming from: someone who knew me personally is out there telling people I’m an awful bitch, because I won’t forgive. There are two exes before him that are saying shit like that, and I hate it. Because there’s nothing I can say or do, but feebly think “no, that’s not true. I’m not a bad person. I’m not a bitch. Why do you keep saying mean things about me?”
It’s childish, but it’s honest. And I’m working on it. I know not everyone in the world can like me, and I can’t stop someone from telling lies. (regarding the two others, one was a huge manipulator who was abusive, and it took me a long time but I finally ran far, far away - the other guy, I don’t even know what his problem is. We dated in highschool, broke up pretty cleanly, and to this day he insists I started some kind of rumour about him being gay (I did’t), and refuses to be friends with anyone who will not hate me - granted, he’s shooting himself in the foot, but it’s still a little unnerving.)

Several other posters got it right on: the forgiveness isn’t for him, it’s for me. Let’s call this spade a damn spade: this is all about me. I don’t get to be selfish very often, but in this situation, I think I earned the right. I know what I said in my OP, and part of me still feels that way, that maybe, maybe I made a difference in his life by holding my ground, not being walked on, showed off my new backbone, all that good stuff. But after reading the responses here, if I’m honest with myself, this is all me.

Today, I feel much better. I don’t feel guilty, and have chosen to just keep the whole thing quiet. If my husband brings him up again, I’ll say, “Don’t. If you need to keep tabs on him to feel better, then you go ahead, but it’s none of my business.”

It *is * tough to get over somebody when they won’t go away. However, I have put myself in the new mindset that some people don’t have the luxury of having someone just disappear. So, I might have a new backbone and all, but I think it could stand to be a little more upright. And so it is. :cool:

I don’t know. Do what ya gotta do, but I’ve always had an open door policy with people in general and it affords me both peace of mind and new possibilities. I’ve never burnt any of my bridges with people and even if they have, I am always willing to build off my bank and meet them over the water. Don’t know what it is but I can’t hate people forever, just not built for it. Maybe you’re not either.

Can I say “you go girl”?
No?
Well done!
You know what you have to do and what patterns of behaviour aren’t helping you and you’re doing your best to break them.
That’s about the healthiest, strongest thing anyone can do and takes a whole bunch of self-awareness and courage.

Keep at it!

On preview:
devilsknew, this isn’t about hating anyone.
This is about saying that you no longer wish to associate with someone because you’ve outgown them.

Unless you’re still great friends with everyone you went to kindergarten with, you’re personally aware of this phenomenon.

And I can outgown this guy any day. He looks terrible in drag!
PS - thanks :slight_smile:

Discernment of hate. O fate, twixt never knowing debate.
I wouldn’t deny any of my fellow kindneygartners.

If she can’t talk to this guy she’ll never be able to let it go.
Generosity and Love will quell.

So I should speak to him?

This is said with sincerety, not sarcasm, but would you care to elaborate on this? What are the pros and cons? Do the pros outweigh keeping him out of our lives?

I’m a bridge builder. Obviously one can’t derive this from a few posts, but I have always, in the past, forgiven, and gave people a second chance. Often, I was walked over for a second time. But I kept doing it. I was the person they were talking about when they say “fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.” Shame on me, I always went back for more. My other ex, even after I left him, had me under his thumb for a long, long time. Not because I loved him and wanted to go back to him, but you can actually have a small amount of love for someone that doesn’t conflict with love for others, and is manifested by caring for that person and their feelings. This guy was a master manipulator, though. He was feeding me lines like “Okay, you broke up with me. Now, you’re not allowed to see anyone for at least a year, or you’re a huge slut.” “You have to stay my friend forever, or I will kill myself and take you with me.” He was more subtle than that, but that’s the bulk of what he was saying. When he discovered, months later, I was tired of the cat and mouse games and began seeing someone else, he threatened and yelled and harrassed me. Today, I have forgiven him, but I haven’t told him that, nor have I ever tried to contact him in any way, shape, or form. I think in some cases, staying away is the healthiest option for all involved. That’s one decision I don’t question. He would physically harm me.

Now, the ex I’m talking about in my OP, he wasn’t as abusive as this first guy, and I mentioned once in another thread that anything less than what the first ex did is hard for me to call abuse. I haven’t sat down and listed the things this ex did that many people later insisted was “emotional abuse”, and I’m still wary to actually call it that. I tend not to run screaming “abuse!” everytime someone wrongs me. But I am slowly coming to the realisation that this guy was actually pretty bad. He kept me under his thumb, too, until he got bored with the whole thing and decided he wanted someone else. He went from one week calling me his “beautiful Anastasia” to the very next week saying “don’t call me sweetheart. I love my beautiful Desiree now.” Don’t get me wrong, this wasn’t a short term relationship. We’d been engaged for two+ years, in love for almost a year more. I had a ring with a rock you could skate on and everything. (I’ve since sold it, in case anyone was wondering :wink: ) I’m all for people changing their minds, but give me a heads up, ferchrissake! One day he loves me, next time he speaks to me, he dislikes me and is moving in with another woman., leaving me high and dry emotionally, financially, you name it. I footed the INS bill that was his idea to begin with.

I don’t know if any of those backstories will help at all, and I’m not trying to sway everyone to agree with me. I am welcome to the opinion that I could do something better in this situation. I added this information because I myself think it might be helpful to see my own bigger picture, however, I am willing to hear that it is meaningless, and I should focus on being more forgiving again, despite what may happen to me in the end. I want to take into account my husband, my family (all of who loathe him, in-laws included) and my future babies - I don’t know how much I’d want him near them.

These are questions I’ve been asking myself: is there a reason to forgive besides for my own self (which I have done and recently made peace with it)? Is there a reason to let him back into our lives? Are there more pros to allowing him back into our lives than there are cons?

Notes: I do not hate him. I have forgiven him in my own heart. Occasionally, if I think about what happened, I do get angry (anger and hate are not the same), however, I flare up very briefly (I’m very slow to anger, and don’t hold it for very long) and think, “Damn! That’s a shitty thing to have happen!” but I’m also thinking “to anyone!” It’s almost like watching a movie. You boo at the bad guy.

Anyway, my questions are earnest: What are the benefits of meeting with this guy and forgiving him to his face? I’ve heard the negatives, is there any good that could come of meeting with the guy personally?

There are no benefits. You’ve moved on and have a very happy life. He’s no longer a part of it. There’s no need to forgive him to his face. The fact that you have done it in your own heart is enough. He’s made his bed, now he has to lie in it.

The opposite of love is not hate but apathy. As long as you are happy in yourself, then tie it to a helium balloon and let it go. You know you’ve forgiven him. Telling him may send him the wrong message.

It’s done. It’s over. Get working on those fat babies and quit tripping over stuff behind you.

Anastaseon, I vote for not talking to him. If you did talk to him, the outcome probably wouldn’t make you feel any better, because he’d be trying to manipulate you, again. On the flip side, if you can remember that he’s being manipulative and see those patterns when you talk to him, it can be very liberating, but you’re still pretty emotional about the whole thing, so it would be hard for you to be that objective.

I had the same situation with an abusive family member. I’ve forgiven him, but I can’t say I like him, I don’t ever want to see him again, and I don’t want him around my family. He’s stolen (from his grandmother :eek: ) and done many other bad things, and I just don’t trust him to be around anyone I care about. It made me a stronger person, which is good, but it would have been better if I’d never known him, and I don’t want him in my life at all.

Anastasaeon. This took awhile because I wrote it and then I went back and took out all the cuss words.

First off, I don’t have a — lot of sympathy for a guy that lies and cheats on you in your relationship, drops you without warning and manipulates you with emotional blackmail. There’s a fool that pulled a similar stunt on my youngest sister when she was away at college… and “borrowed” and wrecked her brand-new car… and if I ever see him anywhere near my baby sister again looking for "forgiveness’, I would gleefully rain havoc on his life.

I don’t like a guy so self-obsessed that he loses all track of you, and then doesn’t even notice when his “best friend” hooks up with you, and STILL doesn’t notice when you two get married, but feels like he can re-enter your lives despite your wishes. I don’t like a guy so needy and in denial about the loathsomeness of his behavior that he can’t admit he screwed up and slink off on his way, unforgiven. I don’t like punks who cry in public over hurt feelings, either. I don’t know your history and private moments together where you think this relationship is worth salvaging, but I seriously don’t like this guy.

You forgave him. Wow. That’s… interesting. I couldn’t do it. I wouldn’t encourage it. I definitely wouldn’t tell him I had. Some people deserve to stew. For trespassing on intimate trust, perpetual loathing is deserved.

Apparently forgiveness for you is easy. But you also said he knows this about you. I think this manipulative cretin is counting on the better sides of you and your husband’s personalities to take over. Your first instinct is generally the correct one, and you and your husband told yourselves you don’t want him in your lives and you put it in writing. Trust that instinct. He may not have been emotionally abusive, but there is a persistent lack of respect on his part for your wishes, your feelings, your privacy, your marriage that give me pause.

What’s to stop him from wooing you if he decides he wants him back and that it was a mistake ? Would you forget about your husband and be flattered? Do you want to shoot your ex down just the see the look on his face? You don’t strike me as someone ruthless enough to do the latter or former. Leave it be.

The hard part, the tough part, is to stick to your guns. Do not let this fool gain so much as a toehold in you and your husband’s lives again. Your Mom is right. He messed up. He broke trust. Do not let him off for obnoxious behavior. Showing up repeatedly crying on my job is obnoxious behavior in my book.

Also: do not let this become about seeing him again just to show him you’re doing well or just to prove to him that you’re a better person, or that you survived without him. Bunk. That. LIFETIME. Crap. This is not about either of your egos. It’s about exorcising someone foul from your lives.

Just as a note: I have no current plans on speaking to the ex. **devilsknew ** presented, for the first time, that it might be a better idea to forgive, so I’m curious to know what the benefits may be - since I personally don’t see them. I like to weight all the factors for myself. But as of right now, I’ve forgiven, no plans to tell him so.

Anastaseon , as I said before, you can forgive someone in your own heart and that is beneficial. You can choose not to fill yourself up with hatred and inner strife - also beneficial…but I’m sorry, I disagree with devilsknew . You mention a former ex that you feel could have harmed you if you hadn’t physically and emotionally separated yourself from him. Would it have behooved you to build bridges with him?? Building bridges is generally a good thing - BUT WITH PEOPLE WHO DESERVE IT. WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT GOING TO HURT YOU. THIS IS ABOUT SELF PRESERVATION GIRL! Sorry about the overly emphatic caps, but I can see myself in you I guess and I worry about you. I remember an ex that I was not over, who was maniacally selfish, who ingratiated himself back into my life. I allowed him to ruin a perfectly wonderful relationship with someone who was devoted to me, blind that I was - Both you and your husband need to let go of this man once and for all! This is the man that you referred to as a “Sociopath”. (Sociopaths can be very charming remember!) You need to realize that no one is thinking you are a bitch. Who could possibly think that?? The man cheated on you and left you flat - then he left your husband having to flip the bill for rent he couldn’t afford. Most people would say kick him to the curb and don’t look back.

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but I think you are looking for a good reason to talk to him again. To let him back in your life. If I’m wrong then I apologize…but I’ve been there and done that - and it wasn’t pretty. Another poster mentioned that the opposite of love is indifference. That is so, so true. My hope for you is that someday you just won’t care anymore about this guy and what he’s doing. It sounds like you have a really good thing with the man you’re currently involved with. Ask yourself, is this prick worth ruining what I have now? Because believe me, if you open the door for him to come in he will. Are you prepared for the consequences??

Alright, I’ll shut up now…Good luck Anastaseon!! Oh, and being about 9 months pregnant at the moment, I have to put in my vote for fat babies! I want one with dimpled knees and elbows! :smiley:

No need at all to apologise; I knew I was taking a risk in looking like I really wanted to talk to him by making that recent post. All I really want to know is devilsknew’s point of view on this. No offense at all intended toward devilsknew, but I don’t see any good coming out of talking to him, not after thinking it over and getting many outside points of view. devilsknew’s side is one I haven’t heard yet, but let me be frank - unless it’s a really great reason that offsets all of the negative reasons, I won’t be making any contact with the ex.

As you all have probably noticed, I’m a pretty analytical person. I like to cover all the bases and cover my own ass - as long as I keep it honest. I can’t make any progress if I lie about myself, to myself or to others I ask for help from. You get to see all the shades, even the uglier ones. Sometimes a harsh truth or two is exactly what I need to hear. But gentle truths and confirmations are awfully nice, too. :wink:

I mean talking to my ex, not devilsknew! :eek: Man, that could have been far more insulting than I had intended!

And I didn’t intend any!

Don’t do anything you’re not comfortable with.

I’m just making a case for victim-offender mediation, obviously in some cases it is therapeutic to have your say and let him have his say. It could get this all over with and have a positive effect for both of you. Resolve it, let him say his Peace then say your Peace. Express your anger, forgiveness, whatever. Then if you don’t want anything to do with him, tell him in no uncertain terms and be done with it. Better to have resolution than the regret and misgivings you are expressing.

I’m not a great believer in telling people to their faces, especially if they’re master manipulators. If you really need to get some stuff out about him, write it in a letter to him and burn it. But what you really need to do at this point is let it go. Quit thinking about it, quit analyzing it, quit feeding the pigeons - when your mind turns to this subject, turn it away. Think about the positive things in your life, instead of this nothing. He is nothing to you, he is nothing in your life - why are you wasting mental energy on him?

Let’s sum this up, now:

It’s done. I’m not spending anymore time thinking about it. He’s out of my life forever and I am happy, with no regrets.

I’ve never spoken so much about any of the situation until this thread, so I think it was all helpful in just getting it off of my chest. When things did happen, sometimes I asked other family members for their opinion, but there was nobody at all outside the situation I could talk to. Everyone most certainly had a bias. This is the first time I’ve ever spoken to complete strangers about the situation, and it has done me a world of good. Sometimes when you’re at the deepest centre of a situation, even if you’re pretty damn sure you’re doing the right thing, you wonder if your own opinion is tainted or warped. What you guys did for me was just prove that no, I’m not insane, no, I should not feel guilty, and yes, I’m on the right track, keep it up. I was ready to hear arguments that I was a cold-hearted bitch, just in case I was, but I’ve seen enough here to know that’s not the case.

I want to thank everyone who had something to say here, for or against, and I really appreciate that you took the time. I value Doper input because I know you’ll be as brutally honest as you have to be!

Shana, I hope you have a healthy, happy, fat bundle of joy! Pretty soon I’ll be working on the same. Be sure to post pictures of the happy fat baby! (If, of course, you are comfortable with it - but I know I’m not the only Doper who appreciates pictures of new Doperlings :wink: )

Askia, I wouldn’t mind having you as my own personal bodyguard, you know that? I hope your sister has a wonderful life and meets wonderful people who treat her right. She’s lucky to have a protective big brother. I have a protective “little big” brother … he’s my younger, skinny little sibling who says he’ll beat up anyone who hurts me with his big stick (he knows some kind of martial arts, I don’t know what, but he has a really big ass stick). Anyway, your advice was pretty raw and real. It got through.

Everyone else - I want to respond to you each personally, but that would require a novelette. I took each of your words of advice to heart, and I thank you all for your honesty and kindness.

It’s cool guys. I’m free.

Unfortunately, my dad is just like your ex, Anastasaeon. He kept a mistress for most of my life, and only split town when my mom got cancer again. He really is a sociopath, and doesn’t understand what he’s done wrong.
I really wish I could forgive him like you have, but I have a feeling it’ll only happen when he’s safely in the ground.