Die, Dawn, die! (Buffy -related with spoilers)

Enough already with this ignorant loser bitch. Die, and don’t get resurrected. Nothing like a little vandalism for good clean fun, huh? What would your dead mama think? And might as well share in the spoils of theft. Sure, you just met this guy and his friend. Might as well park in the middle of nowhere. So you and your friend both lied. Where did you think you were going to spend the night. Cull these ignorant genes from the pool.

At least Willow is getting good and nasty. I’ll enjoy it when she realizes and realy runs with it.

Xander and Anya were a couple of doofs yesterday. Yawn.

Could you have possibly found some worse acting kids for the scenes in the shop? PLEASE tell me they are related to someone involved in the show.

Really pretty sad Halloween effort here.

(And remember, I love this show!)

On the plus side, Buffy’s looking mighty hot this season. Gonna miss Giles.

I fear the musical next week is gonna suck. Hope I’m wrong.

It seemed really awful of Dawn for me too, until I realized something. She’s acting, well, normal. Th is s fifteen year old kid, raised without a father. Now no mother, just an absentee older sister who’s into weird things. She’s being babysat by a frickin’ vampire. What do you expect her to do?

I’d expect her to act out a little. Petty vandalism, smashing pumpkins, necking with guys…yeah, that’s about par for the course. I wish she’d realized the danger of being with a vampire, but her exposure to them is limited, more or less, to neutered Spike and stories of Angel.

I’m not condoning her behavior, and Giles and Buffy should come down on her hard. I’m just saying that this is not atypical behavior. I think it’s part of the “normalization” of the Buffyverse, i.e., getting jobs, paying rent, etc. Now they have to raise a troubled teen. Happens.

New topic: Is the turning of Willow a little too obvious? I mean, we all know Joss loves his red herrings. Willow seems like she’s going grr way too fast. Maybe something else is going on, like an outside force affecting her?

And the musical…yikes. I’ve got a baaaad feeling about this.

Uh…Dinsdale how long ago were you a teenager? It has been way too long for me, but IIRC, teen years are marked by incredibly stupid behavior…you never shoplifted? Hung out with kids you knew your parents would never approve of? Participated in incredibly short-sighted acts of trivial vandalism that embarrass you to this day?

All rites of passages IMHO…

I thought the show was great - and Anya’s wedding plans - well, let’s just say between myself and some of my other married friends, there is a ring of some familiarity…I can very much relate to Xander’s “what did I just sign up for?!” feelings towards the end…

22 years ago. And I never committed vandalism - other than one time I carved my initials in a forest preserve picnic table, and felt really bad about it afterwards. Never had enough money myself, so I wasn’t gonna damage other peoples’ things.

And I shoplifted football cards. But that guy said he lifted the old guys’ wallet, and Dawn pocketed some of the cash. Seems to cross a moral line somewhere. Sure, kids will be kids. But good kids will be good kids, and jerky kids like Dawn should - well - die! :wink:

I agree Willow’s turning is a little quick and obvious. All I can hope is it means she is gonna get REALLY nasty!

And the red herrings were swimming a little fast and furious last night. The whole thing with the old guy. And I’d like to see a map of Sunnydale - Dawn is strolling down a neighborhood street full of trick-or-treaters, she turns a corner, and she’s in this dark business/industrial alley.

And where did all the vamps drive up from at the end? And why? Just to have a long and not exactly thrilling fight scene? Toss in Buff just happening to catch a glimpse of the chick’s chewed neck, and I thought the whole thing seemed a little tossed together. I expect more from this show.

Oh yeah - is there now some kind of a lesbian kiss quota? Matbe I’m too cynical. I’m glad they are presenting Willow/Tara as a normal relationship. And they were careful not to make the first kiss a big deal. But now I wonder iof they show tem in bed together, or otherwise being intimate, kinda to prove a point.

That you weren’t like Dawn as a teenager, Dinsdale, does not mean that Dawn isn’t normal. Her indiscretions may be a little exaggerated, but everything’s exaggerated for television. How interesting would the show be if all characters acted perfectly all the time? That doesn’t even happen on Seventh Heaven.

I pride myself on having learned to spot Joss’s misdirections ahead of time, but I admit I was fooled by the old man last night. Good on ya, Joss!

And Dinsdale, Willow and Tara have kissed exactly twice this season, as far as I remember. It’s hardly been gratuitous.

But if the W/T shippage bothers you, [portentous bass line]don’t worry about it. After next week you won’t be seeing it any more.[/portentous bass line]

Dawn did an incredibly dangerous and stupid thing, and it would have been dangerous and stupid even if she didn’t live on the hellmouth. I’m kinda curious where she and the other girl would have spent the night if they had not gotten caught. She must have some inkling she lives in a dangerous place, as she picked up a big piece of wood when she heard noises in the alley.
In last night’s fight scene, I was wondering when Giles is going to decide he’s too old to be getting beaten up all the time. He took some awfully hard kicks last night. How old is Rupert?

I loved last night’s show for one simple reason. Dawn was in trouble, and, praise the Lord, for once she didn’t scream “Buffy!” in that high pitched shriek of hers. She actually managed to kill a bad guy by herself.

One minor complaint, exactly how big are vampire hearts, and aren’t they protected by a rib cage? I think I remember Angel and Spike getting stabbed in the chest a couple of times, yet it always seemed to miss the heart. Meanwhile, if there’s a branch, fence, etc. anywhere in the vicinity of a fight, you can bet a minor vamp character is going fall on it in just the right way.

I think this show may be setting up for Dawn starting to be a Scoobie. It’s starting to be obvious that Buffy can no longer shelter lil sis, and she actually did what had to be done (wasted the vamp) when the chance arose. I think she’ll start helping out more.

I thought it was great that Giles took out three bloodsuckers, while Spike got two and Buffy apparently only got one. The old guy’s still got the stuff.

About Willow’s turning I like how they contrast her total apathy towards use of magic for trivial things as well as her random super bitch moments with things like her being a big ol’ softy for the little girl in a witch costume. Right now she’s starting to straddle extremes and is still a good guy. She’s just starting to be a very iffy good guy. I expect her to move through a period of batman like antagonism for evil, then onto the psychotic antiheroism of spawn and finally onto a complete amorality. I think she’s going to kill the geek trio for messing with Buffy and get uppity at Buffy when she says that Willow should’t be killing people.

Oh and about the musical I have high hopes for it. The characters realize that they’re breaking into song, which is amusing (I know it has been done before, but still it’s amusing).

Would that be the same “point” that every show on television (including Buffy) makes when it shows mixed-sex couples in bed together, the point being that people in a relationship sleep in the same bed? Yeah, I think Joss is really trying to cram that point home. If it bothers you, watch one of the other 100+ shows on the air that are certified 100% lesbian-free. Sheesh.

I’m looking forward to the musical episode.

I was happy to see them waste some good old fashioned vampires last night. When was the last time we saw vampires who put up a fight and talked back on this show, outside the Spike/Drusilla universe?

I also liked the way they drew the teenage vamp Dawn necks with - he is bloodsucking and evil and deserves to die, yet somewhere in there he does really like her. His high schoolish pranks and talk of “going all the way” reminded me of Dawn of the Dead, where the zombies cling to familiar patterns and objects that were important to him in life. He’s just a kid that someone turned into a vampire for kicks.

I have a question that might better be answered in the “mythology” thread, but does Willow’s witchcraft ability come from innate talent or simple mastery and research? In other words, if Xander or Dawn or one of the others wanted to become witches, could they?

Finally, I agree that Dawn is a bit tiresome. She is the Scrappy Doo of BTVS, but I am hopeful that she’ll earn her place in the Scoobies. Turning her into a vampire and forcing a newly resurrected Buffy to kill her own fake sister would have been a cool way to spend Halloween, Joss. :wink:

Anyone could be come a witch. Willow was a geeky non-witch until she had to research and perform a spell to keep Angelus out of the houses he’d previously been invited into. (Jenny/Giles found the spell, I think, but Willow performed it.) Willow’s knowledge and power expanded a great deal after she met Tara, who’d been doing witchcraft for some time. They seem to be more powerful together than seperate. I imagine a real witch will come in with a better opinion, but that’s my WAG.

My take on the whole “Dark Willow” thing is that she will become corrupted by the absolute power of magick. The way they will overcome her will leave her with no memory of basically anything since that first spell to restore Angel’s soul. Sounds nice and Buffytragic-like.

Chris W.

“When you use magic, there are ALWAYS consequences!”
– Spike aka William the Bloody

I think that practice is a part in the Buffy universe but so is natural talent. Several times it has been mentioned that Willow has a lot of innate power. Added to the fact she’s an expert at studying she managed to master most spells and can come up with new ones easily (the party favors for instance, I doubt that’s in a spell book).

One of her problems is that she seems to treat magic like technology. She seems only abstractly aware of the costs and thinks that with enough knowledge she can pull off anything without consequences. Giles and Tara are aware that magic is more than a game and mroe than an intellectual persuit. Thus they are so uncomfortable with the way that Willow just tosses around a violatile force. It’s like using a nuclear reactor to power a gameboy.

This week’s episode was pure filler. It was instant re-run: never seen it before, but it all seemed old. None of the ongoing plots were advanced, except for Anya and Xander, and that was a minor part of the show. Everything else was just more emphasis on what we already know is going on:
[ul]
[li]Spike loves Buffy, and Buffy is becoming increasingly confused about her feelings towards him: Check.[/li]
[li]Willow is turning evil: Check.[/li]
[li]Giles is feeling out of place and wants to leave: Check.[/li]
[li]Dawn can’t act: Check.[/li]
[li]Xander is spazzing out about proposing to Anya: Check*[/li][/ul]

The fight scene was uninspired (although the family spat before slaying was pretty funny). And since when does Giles know how to jump-kick? And how the hell does a prone fifteen year old girl force a number 2 pencil through the sternum of a super-humanly strong undead fiend who’s sitting on top of her?

Bleh. This was a bad, bad episode. I’m hoping Joss is saving it all up for the musical episode next week. I’m dosconcertingly pumped for it.

I hope not! I don’t want the geek trio killed. They’re so amusing.

I’m wondering if the Geek Mafia is going to end up being one of Buffy’s weapons against Willow, once she and Willow have to square off.

I do think it would be interesting to see a comic relief villain turn out to be the real Big Bad. The producers couldn’t have done that with, say, Harmony, but the Quibbling Three combine enough raw power to be a real threat, were they effective.

Tuesday’s episode was the epitome of filler, although I do think that Dawn can act. I kept wondering why the distinct lack of body heat on her date wasn’t a big tip-off, though; it may be cold in the car, but when the spit you’re swapping is cold, your Spidey sense should start tingling.

I think with the “forget” spell she cast at the end of the episode, Willow has crossed a pretty large bridge. She is not longer even using magic for fun, happy things. She is using it to deceive Tara, and there’s really no way to make believe that is good magic.

My guess, is that by casting the spell to unslay Buffy she opened herself to influence by something otherworldly. This way she can be Real Bad ™ and still be vindicated at the end.

All of you people whining that the episode was “filler” are forgetting the most important thing. We learned the secret of Giles’ glasses-cleaning! “Is that why you’re always cleaning your glasses, so you can’t see what we’re doing?” “Tell no one.”

God, no. They have strong shark-jumping potential. They aren’t funny, they aren’t sinister, and they aren’t remotely interesting. Watching them just makes me cringe; they are a terrible miscalculation.