DINK (dual-income, no kids): Personal & shared growth at 40+?

I’m curious… what do child-less/childfree couples do at 40+ to keep life interesting and keep growing, both together and as individuals? Just looking for some ideas & recommendations… both things to try for fun and also ways to grow more deeply.

What’s worked for you or the people you’ve known?


Some background… (totally optional reading; more interested in your experiences, but sharing this just for context):

My partner and I have been together a few years now. We don’t have or want kids. In the time we’ve been together, we’ve traveled a bunch, played many board games, raised pets, made new friends, acquired new hobbies. Together we’ve learned many things: kayaking, mountain biking, martial arts, some Native American history, and also took several one-off classes like welding and blacksmithing. We’re taking another art class together soon. She’s learning guitar. I volunteer at a museum and give short nature talks. She watches way too much TV and I play way too many video games. That’s our lives in a nutshell. It’s a nice, comfortable existence.

But we’re also quite different in one regard: the need for novelty, change, and growth (especially for me). She went to trade school and then jumped straight into a career that she’s kept for three decades. In that same period, I flip-flopped through 3-4 different college majors and too many jobs to count, across different fields & states. She’s lived in two cities her whole life, moving away from her hometown for the first time at age 30ish. I’ve lived in many places across the world, from childhood onward. Meeting me added a flurry of excitement (and endless chaos) to her life, while meeting her gave me some much-needed stability (and sanity). She has her feet firmly planted on the ground while I’ve always been more head-in-the-clouds. It’s the ol’ “opposites attract”, I suppose :slight_smile:

Anyway, through these last few years, we’ve managed to find a good working balance of stability and growth, and I’d like to keep that going however we & I can. As we work to save for an eventual house (maybe), I’m also looking for ways to keep developing in life, character, and our relationship.

For myself, I dearly miss the constant & diverse intellectual stimulation of university. I’d go back to school to seek a master’s (or three) if I could, but that’s not really an option right now where I’m at, either geographically or financially — though I hope that will change in 3-4 years, with the addition of a new university extension here and some money I’ll try to save.

In the meantime, my current job (as a software developer) is often rewarding but rarely challenging, yet other career prospects in the small town we’re in are quite limited. My last local company laid off 90% of my team; many are still job-seeking, while one became a full-time farmer instead (I’m kinda jealous).

To keep my mind engaged, I’ve taken classes at the local community college — everything from math to signing — started and seriously invested in another martial art, watched a bunch of documentaries, and generally just spent a lot of time trying & learning various new things, though without necessarily being able to keep a sustained focus on them long-term.

I think what I really crave is something I can learn and develop over time, with a high skill ceiling, that’s a mix of self-paced learning but also opportunities to be social and collaborative, like a project or some useful, shareable skillset. I was thinking of learning to draw, maybe? My mother was an artist and I’ve always enjoyed art and design, but never seriously devoted time to it beyond some occasional graphics work in my job. It sounds fun on paper (no pun intended), but I’m also worried it could end up being too solo & lonely an activity?

It would be cool to find something that she and I could both invest in and enjoy and develop together, despite our different personalities. Any ideas?

I don’t know that I’d recommend getting a Master’s for the purpose of finding fulfillment, unless your financial situation makes the cost trivial. (I have an in law relative who did exactly that after becoming an empty nester, but that relative is loaded… It would be a lot tougher for “normal” people).

Tens of thousands of dollars are something I would only spend on an investment that is going to help you support yourself in the future. Just MHO.

As you note, there are plenty of cheap of free alternatives to going get your masters when the degree doesn’t actually do anything for you, like community college or online courses (There are online subscription services that let you watch university lectures online for the price of a Netflix subscription. It’s not the same as going to school, of course not, but it also doesn’t cost tens of thousands of dollars…)

To keep life interesting they spend all that extra money they have.

2 thoughts:
woodworking - it is a rabbit hole. As a bonus, if you get good enough, you can make things to furnish your home or even sell some pieces to offset the cost of equipment.
cooking - really rewarding and endlessly creative options. As a bonus, you get to eat your creations!

We are not DINKSs and are older, but I know of people who have gotten a smart athletic dog and together gotten into things like agility training as a shared interest. And of course others who treat a dog as a child. Blech.

My own attitude is that too many couples seem to exist almost exclusively as the couple unit and spend not enough energy free to be very different individuals with their own interests. I love my wife and we are of age and savings that we are always asked about if we are retiring soon. If we ever do, it won’t be to spend all day every day together constantly! We will develop as individuals sharing more than as the single always together unit that I see many other couples as.

My own two cents is each individual is responsible for their own growth and that the long term couple satisfaction is in being interested in and supportive of what the other chooses to do during your shared times together.

A small business. It’s challenging, and progress and accomplishments are easily measured. And income is something almost everybody has an interest in. My wife and I have been in business together for about 20 years now and it is there where most of our interests intersect since we have no children on which to focus that mutual attention.

That’s fine, but you still have better options there than getting a Master’s simply for the sake of getting a Master’s.

As for what you should do instead - it sounds like you need a hobby. There are plenty of hobbies you can sink an arbitrary amount of time into with different levels of skill and investment.

Personally, if I didn’t have kids and was looking for a hobby to develop into something fulfilling to invest time and effort in, I might go deeper into aquariums. It would be fun to try and keep notoriously difficult fish, even breed them; to join an aquarium club nearby and see what kind of rare and exotic stuff shows up at fish swaps; etc.

That’s a hobby I already have an interest in that I can’t dedicate as much time, space, or money to as I would if I had lots more of all three. If you have a hobby you have an affinity for, see what it takes to really get into it.

They’ve had lots of hobbies both together and separately:

@Reply, my sense is more that you are interested in how very different temperaments manage age together and stay close, especially without shared children as a unifying interest and their future as a focus?

No, they’ve done many activities together. It sounds like they have gone hiking, but they haven’t become avid hikers. They’ve kayaked, but they haven’t become kayakers.

I have aquariums today, but I wouldn’t really say I’m an aquarist, or an aquarium hobbyist, except for at the most casual level. If I had the time and money (because I wasn’t spending those things on my kids) and was looking for something to do, I could easily imagine getting much more invested in the hobby; that’s what I’m suggesting for the OP.

My wife of 60 years and I are very different. She is a person who cherishes the known comforts both physically and intellectually, while I seek challenges in those two areas. We are both intelligent (I think) and informed citizens. Importantly, we share the same values. However we are two very individual people living as a co-supportive unit.

So I learn new skills and cycle through new passions, seeking things that are actively engaging. She enjoys the same TV programs and generally avoids new skills, and cheerfully accepts a more passive approach to life That is not to say that she is a stick in the mud. She is much more engaging socially than I…and less of a perfectionist. I appreciate the personal gifts that she has, and the value she adds to my life.

I think the key to our relationship is the shared values and goals, and respect for each other’s living style and interests.

I love her immensely.

So this -

means a certain level of intensity and obsession as the value of “arbitrary”?

In any case the OP pretty clearly states that his style includes a “need for novelty”. It sounds like becoming highly expert and invested in one thing is not what he would enjoy most?

Is it your experience that a shared hobby of higher level interest and time investment is the path to growth as a couple for early middle aged DINKS?

Well, that was the hope… to both learn something new, and make a living off it in the future. I was actually trying to reeducate myself and change careers last year, but, alas… as a “normal” person I ran out of money :slight_smile: But yes, point taken: Don’t pursue more higher ed unless it can pay for itself. (My undergrad in environmental science sure didn’t, though it did make me a better person overall).

Hah! We may have more disposable income than, say, a family with 4 kids living in San Francisco, but we’re still just barely lower-middle-class — and only if we pool our incomes and live in a low-to-moderate cost-of-living area. Think “can maybe afford to go on a short vacation every few years, maybe”, not “multiple summer homes”… and no yacht, just a used kayak that’s falling apart at the seams a bit (luckily, we can both swim OK).

This is a fantastic idea that I will investigate. Thanks for the suggestion! We don’t have a big enough garage or any woodworking tools, but we do have a pretty nice makerspace near us. I took woodshop back in high school and loved the heck out of it, and waddya know, there’s actually a few cabinets and catios that we could use… would be a great hobby!

I’d enjoy this, I think, and I’ve proposed this idea to her multiple times, but she’s not interested. Too much day-to-day logistics, never being able to truly “turn off” work, etc. And besides, we don’t have the startup capital.

And I wouldn’t really be in it for the money anyway… would rather form a small non-profit instead. I used to hold leadership roles in a few back in college, and then worked for one for a few years. Loved that sort of impactful work (and I probably would’ve stayed forever if I wasn’t let go during covid). It’s still a dream of mine someday, but… it’s not a good time for any sort of grant-seeking entity right now =/ And I don’t have the financial safety net to take that risk on my own.

These are all really great points & questions. There’s some truth in all of it :slight_smile: I don’t think these things are mutually exclusive, though (and I know you didn’t mean them as such)… ideally we’d have a mix of all of those, some shared hobbies, some individual ones, some long-term ones, some that we only try for a week or a day at a time.

Heh, we actually are avid hikers (one of the few things we both routinely enjoy), and we both liked mountain biking more than we thought we would. Kayaking was more my thing at first, but she got more into it with time, and eventually bought herself one… as a birthday gift to me, lol.

On the other hand, there are things we just couldn’t get the other to keep doing (and that’s fine)… we both started learning guitar together; I gave up after a few weeks and she’s in her fourth year now. I’ve gotten her to try a few dozen video games so far, for anywhere from 5 min to 2 hours each. None stuck. Alas.

There are also those things that one of us really enjoys and the other tolerates enough to keep doing, just for the togetherness. Taekwondo is more her thing, but I go with her every class even though I prefer another martial art (which I do on my own because she really dislikes the other style).

The need for novelty thing… you know, I still can’t decide if it’s a blessing or curse. Maybe both. On one hand it’s exposed me to tremendously different kinds of people, places, industries, jobs, etc., and given me perspectives that I’m deeply grateful for. But as I get older, I do wish that I were more able to stick with things long-term, even if (or maybe especially because) it’s not what my personality would normally want to do. I don’t need any help trying new things; I don’t think I could stop that even if I wanted to, lol.

But it would be nice, just once in a while, to be able to turn SOME of those things — even just one in ten, or one in fifty — into a longer-term goal. And that’s the part that’s squarely on me, the “each individual is responsible for their own growth” you mentioned… but it’s also the part I wish I had more support and mentorship for.

Any one of our/my hobbies could’ve become a lifelong pursuit, but I have a really hard time sticking with them. I don’t know how to turn that spark of initial interest into sustained effort over months & years.

I was hoping that making it a shared activity would help us motivate each other, as it has in the case of mountain biking, taekwondo, etc. But, I mean, I think that also kinda glosses over the underlying issue here, of having to rely on external stimuli & peer pressure instead of being able to intrinsically motivate myself over time.

Something I have found helpful in this regard is when the activity has some measurable, tangible output, which is why drawing and woodworking have that appeal. They can produce a visible finished outcome that gets better every time, vs the very gradual and subtle improvements you see from something like mountain biking and martial arts.

Hmm.

Anyway. You’ve given me a lot of food for thought. Appreciate it!

This is very insightful.

As a now retired 66yo I’ll tell you something I learned at about age 60 while still working:

    There’s a long list of things I’ve always wished were true (or were at least more true) of me. There are many activities I’ve wanted to want to do. But somehow I’ve never actually wanted to do them enough to actually do them.

    My insight was that that whole line of thinking is wrong. Accept that what you do do is genuinely an expression of who you are, and most of the “want to wants” in your head are really stuff subconsciouly imposed on you by the outside world or by your upbringing.
I am so much more at peace with myself since I abandoned the “want to want” self-guilt program. That’s not to say I’ve turned into a listless couch potato eating only pizza. But I pursue the things I am interested in. Of which there are many. Not stare longingly, but also ineffectually and guiltily, at the list of things I “ought” to be doing too.

Trying to apply this “wisdom” to your situation, IMO you want to want a long-term commitment to some life-hobby. But that’s just not in your nature. Which leaves you looking at it, and feeling negatively about yourself over it. Accept who you are and discard the want to wants. There is also satisfaction in doing 100 different things at a beginner level, rather than 2 things at a long-skilled amateur level.

Mid 60’s DINKs here. We live mountain rural.

There is always something to do.

We have two dogs, they help keep us active. I like to cook, so there is that as well as it being pretty darn necessary.

My Wife skis (I don’t, hate it). If I ever get the time, I’m going to learn to play guitar.

We both are going to retire in about a year (I work from home), we are looking for a new home. Somewhere where EMS is a bit more reliable. And the snow is going to just get to be too much to handle. Plus, we want single story living. And we also both agree that we will both want an office at home.

One thing we took up about 4 years ago was chess. I’ve always played and my wife became interested. We play at least 8 games a week. When I was finalizing my mothers estate, I was away from home often. My wife and I could play each other online.

We also picked up Cribbage, we play that a lot too.

Just how much disposable income is available certainly matters, but I think it might also depend on how @Reply feels about that master’s degree. How much of their personal satisfaction is derived from the active learning process (i.e. time spent in class and/or doing homework), and how much is derived from being more knowledgeable in the years/decades that follow? If it’s more the former, then yeah, I suppose that’s kind of a pricey pastime. If it’s more the latter, then in terms of dollars per hour of joy, that’s really not too bad.

OP pointed out that theirs is a DINK household, so they are more likely than average to have disposable income available.

Fellow DINK here.

My wife and I have been through many phases in our 20+ year relationship but right now we’re both hyper focused on school. I’ve gone back to school to get a degree in music, my first degree was in accounting, and all my education is completely paid for through the military. My wife is going to school to get a degree in Social work, it will be her first bachelors but she’s currently just attending community college for her basics so it’s not that expensive.

We are both still employed and save for retirement. My advice is always have goals you are working to achieve. If you’re just living to work then that will get real old real quick.

That’s great to hear! What motivated you two to suddenly go back to school? Just for personal enrichment?

How were you able to juggle the degree work with work? Is this something you were only able to do late-career? Working part-time, or?

Just thought about the shared growth some more.

My wife decided she wanted to race IronMan races (a dear friend did them). The long ones, 140.6 miles. Gawd.

She started with simple full 26 mile marathons.

She trained, trained and trained some more. That’s probably why we are accustomed to getting up at 3am now.

I supported her and drove her an her gear to each USA coast from Colorado. I was the Sherpa and chief cook and bottle washer. Also the guy that says yes, it’s 911 time.

The physical and physiological stress that it puts on an athlete to get through the training and preparation is intense.

Now we play chess. Not many hospitals involved in that.

Both activities, are examples of shared growth.

Well I don’t really work full time anymore plus I have a pension from the military which also pays all my tuition. I’ve pretty much always been a musician, I started playing keyboards when I was 6. I was just too afraid to major in music the first time so I picked something safe like Accounting. Now I’m getting older and I regret not following my music interests to the fullest extent possible, plus the free tuition money was just sitting on the table unused.

Seemed like a no brainer, but I’m not gonna lie, it was quite humbling sitting next to 18 year old college freshmen in music theory I some of whom were more knowledgeable than me. My ultimate career goal is to either become a public school music teacher or a music therapist, which is where I’ll finish my career.

its only growth if you enjoy the bottlewashing part … if not … its just a form of ME-FIRST!

(I assume you got that sorted out)