My wife’s best friend lives 5 minutes from us. We both love dogs and have had dogs most of the 25 years we’ve known each other. Us goldens and currently a goldendoodle, her, a variety of little white yappy things. We have VERY specific ideas of what behavior is and is not tolerable in a dog. She essentially trains her dogs to misbehave. Seriously. She just got a 1 yr rescue a couple of weeks ago, and yesterday it was more poorly behaved than just after she got it. She basically thinks it is cute when her dogs chew on peoples’ shoes and fingers, and lick their faces.
She maintains she has no idea what the 2 of us - and her husband - are talking about. She’s not going to change. We have to make the rules - if they come over to our house, either the dog is not allowed, or we tell her we will not allow it on the furniture, etc. And there have been times we’ve left their home early b/c we were tired of her dogs.
The worst is when she interacts with our dog in a way to countermand our training.
No simple answer here. Good luck. I tend to be tactless, but I’d anticipate saying plainly, “I love you, and want to spend time with you, but I cannot tolerate being around your dog.”
Based on three minutes’ internet research, but for what it’s worth, I’m going to agree with several others here: that’s a hunting breed. bred through generations to work very closely with a particular human – and to work with them, very actively, for hours a day. Trying to keep such a dog in an apartment with, from the sound of it, probably a minimally active (by dog standards) human, who has no actual work fot the dog to do, is asking for trouble. Of course the dog’s going to be rambunctious.
You’re right that training would help. A few hours a day, every day or close to it, running around off leash in a dog park or, better yet, in the woods would help even more. But that’s probably unobtainable. Poor dog. Poor human. But they most likely genuinely do love each other. The human just doesn’t understand the dog.
Whether you can get any of this across to the particular human, I have no idea.
I have to be careful with Mary Lou WRT that potential.
@motu Interesting about therapy dog training! Creative idea.
@Aspenglow That VxxxA link is very interesting and informative. I may be able to pass that along. I know you understand-- thanks.
True. Fortunately, I’ve known this organization for years, worked for them, and my mother spent the last two years of life at their assisted living facility and got wonderful care. I also already know several other people who live here. That’s a big plus. Also, I’m still basically in the same neighborhood-- although a different part. I’ve walked in this area for years. I’ll be able to go to the same grocery store, etc.
I’ve never heard of these groups. Mary Lou did tell me that another resident hires someone to take her dog out for walks.
The comments have been very sweet and supportive. So it’s fine.
No experience with the V-dogs. But I’ve had experiences with hounds. They are miserable without a job to do. They can get very anxiety ridden. Turn into fearful dogs that will bite and slink around hiding.
Can your friend throw a ball? That may satisfy the dogs need to hunt prey. She may have to do a bunch of tossing. Maybe you two could meet in an outdoor/protected area to chat and take turns tossing the ball. If it’s a dog park take extra balls. The dog would be more quiet on the way home for sure.
Yaay!!! That sounds like, net of Mary Lou and Inadvertent HellDog, you’re doing this perfectly. I hope to emulate your skill & wisdom when the time comes.
From my years running a big condo with a very supportive friends and neighbors network, many folks tried to stay there way past the time they needed more help inside their unit than the neighbors could / would provide outside their unit. IME, moving to a more inside-supportive environment sooner rather than later is the smarter way. It’s easy to wait to long and become trapped by some combo of gathering infirmity and simple inertia over the logistical / emotional enormity of moving. Better to move at a time when it still feels premature.
I know your timing was not of your choosing. But, particularly since you’re not changing neighborhoods, you may find this turns out to be one of the easiest and most affirming things you’ve done for yourself.
Is there any way to have someone else talk to Mary Lou about the dog’s behavior, ideally without it connecting to you? That sort of thing often goes over better if it comes from someone not a friend, especially if it comes from an authority figure. Then she can vent to you & you can offer suggestions about training, exercise, etc.
If there’s no one else, and even if it affects the friendship, I would talk to her, not about the dog’s behavior, but about the cruelty of keeping this breed in her circumstances. Keeping a high energy hunting dog indoors with minimal exercise is very wrong & if she ends the friendship over this, you’ve lost a friend who practices animal cruelty so not a big loss.
I cannot stress this point enough. Can you ask her if you can take the dog for an occasional walk? Maybe frame it as a way for you to be able to get more exercise?
My gf loves to do dog training work. A friend who breeds Golden Retrievers wanted to have at least one adult dog that could be walked on a leash and respond to basic commands so that prospective buyers could see this. He “hired” my gf to do some training (he keeps offering cash, she keeps declining).
Maybe contact a local dog club and see if they have someone who could do some one-on-one work with the dog?
It is 9 am here. My gf has been gone for at least an hour, riding a horse. She took two of our dogs and they’ll return eventually, exhausted. Good dogs!!
I have this problem in my life and would be interested in knowing how to resolve it, but that’s a topic for another thread.
Anyway, for the OP, we should be able to count on our friends to tell us the brutal truth. I get that a prior mention has resulted in some cold shoulder, but if the dog makes spending time with the friend uncomfortable, maybe one way to drop a hint is doing things with the friend without the dog. If the friend objects with “Oh, can I bring D along?”, just say no, you are having trouble with some dogs right now.
I agree that addressing the issue more directly could put more pressure on the friendship, and who needs that?
This is a helpful discussion… And I agree that it is like dealing with someone’s undisciplined kid. Mary Lou isn’t likely to ask to bring D along because of the residual tension over my comments of several years ago.
It occurs to me that down the road, after I’m moved in and settled, I could say to ML, “Now that I’m living here, I’d like to try to make friends with and get used to D. Maybe I can go with you to the dog park and throw a ball.” Or better, “Maybe I can get to know D and she can get used to me.”
Including “get used to” covertly addresses my earlier comments plus the fact that I know ML knows she doesn’t have control of D. She makes weak, sheepish excuses like a parent might make, “Well, Dickie did pretty well in school today. He only bloodied one kid’s nose. I’m so proud of him.”
And after the lame excuse she always adds, “D is such a good dog!” I think D would love to be a good dog but gets nothing but mixed signals, on top of the lack of exercise.
(Frankly, not unlike the excuses people made for trump, especially in the beginning: “Well, he didn’t get us into a nuclear war today-- a good day!”)
While more walking would be better than nothing, I strongly suspect that that dog needs to run. Maybe in circles will do; but run full out, and not just for a few minutes. A horse could keep up, yes. Very few humans can exercise dogs of such breeds properly on a leash.
For some breeds, of course, and for many old dogs, on-leash walks can be enough. Unfortunately that doesn’t seem to be the sort of dog this particular person has got; and it’s way too late, for both the dog and the human, to advise getting a different dog instead.
Throwing balls in a dog park is a great idea if it’s possible to arrange that – preferably with the dog’s human involved, but without her if necessary. The dog may at first be upset with the separation if it needs to be done without the human, but would probably be all right once it sinks in that after the run the dog consistently goes back home to the usual human.
That looks good! – how about “D and I can get used to each other”?
I have nothing to add to the excellent advice you’ve already received and my concurrence with your proposed low-key approach. Really just want to say that I read the thread and am sending my best wishes for your move; it sounds like you’ve picked a great place and will be very happy there. As others have said, better too early than too late.
Back to the dog. In thinking of my own (former) dog, your instinct for avoiding a direct confrontation is absolutely right, as supported by all the other comments. If someone – even a good friend – had suggested that my dog wasn’t properly trained, I know I’d be very defensive and my (probably unspoken) reaction would have been “how about you mind your own damn business?”. In truth, although my dog did go to doggie school (and even got a diploma!) and even had a personal trainer for a while, I’m sure I was too lax with him. It can be very hard to impose discipline when you love a dog so much!
No pressure, but I bet you have more training ability than you know. Good dog owner things like being calm, firm, and consistent, and knowing when to reward a dog vs when to ignore or not reinforce something are probably things you already do.
I was going to suggest the same thing. Ask for the dog to be out of her crate, and then do some basic clicker-type training with her. (No clicker, just a marker word like “yes!”) Just something very basic, like sit. Keep rewarding her when she sits. That gives her something to do that she knows will get her attention and approval, rather than jumping and barking. If you could get her to lie down, you’re like, almost halfway to teaching her to be still and calm.
But, I get not wanting to do it yourself, and it might not be welcome. (Though I bet seeing it could make an impression.)
Besides just not being around the dog, the only other thing I can really think of is offering to go with the owner and the dog to a basic training class. But, it probably won’t be well received. Maybe you could couch it in terms of other people? Like, you wouldn’t want to have your friend have to deal with irate neighbors because of the barking?
I’ve become less and less a fan of dog parks to tire out dogs. For many dogs the experience is more stress than exercise.
Many of these dogs of course need exercise, as do we all, but they need the mental exercise to tire them out as well.
Maybe consider suggesting how well D would do in agility or dog scent tracking or other classes and competitions, a real natural, and ask if the three of you could do that as a fun activity together?
The scent work is a natural for the breed and easy to work on in an apartment …
I’d suggest that after the owner has trained the dog to do those behaviors around the owner alone, then@ThelmaLou has some hope of getting the dog to not wig out over @ThelmaLou’s presence. But not before.
Remember this owner is actively, albeit unwittingly, training the dog to be a total uncontrolled PITA. All day every day.
