Do Women have to do EVERY DAMN THING???

The BBQ Pit
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{{Why doesn’t you logic apply to both parties there?..Sure, I could figure out what is delicate, and what is knit…and put in the fabric softener, and all the other things that go along with laundry. Or she can do like I do, and buy clothes that don’t need special attention. Maybe you don’t buy much clothing for men, but it’s possible to get the same time of “special care” clothing for us. }}

I worked in a woman’s clothing store for 8 years, and helped the buyer. It’s almost impossible to buy “easy care” women’s clothing that’s suitable for business wear. It’s all dry clean only, or hand wash/lay flat to dry, or something persnickety like that. Occasionally you’ll find something that will withstand machine washing.

Now that I telecommute, I wear denim dresses and cotton muumuus for the most part, but this isn’t a viable option for most women.

Basically, I do my laundry, my husband does his, and my daughter does hers. I also do the household laundry. The reason I don’t put my denim dresses in with my husband’s jeans is because 1) his jeans are greasy, and I think that my dresses would come out dirtier than cleaner 2) my dresses need to be washed in cold water, while his jeans need to be washed in warm or hot 3) he tends to leave stuff in his pockets.

I won’t even go into the pantyhose rant.

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I don’t usually post on these boards as they are usually filled with people just venting, wishing they had been chosen for Jerry Springer or some other “I hate women, I hate men” forum. Today, however, I must comment on a few postings I found intollerable.
First to PitBullDawg, (interesting name really when you think of the percentage of people that actually LIKE pitbulls----I’m thinking pretty damn low). Your comments were ridiculous, sexist garbage, ALMOST not worth addressing, however, the comment on the invention of high heels and bras was just idiotic enough to merit a reply. You say they were invented by men? Fine. The next time a women invents something for a man I’ll be sure to suggest it’s extremely painful and that it’s sole purpose is to turn women on.
To you Atrael, you conveniently forgot where you saw the comment men think in straight lines and women think in circles: let me refresh your memory? Was it Playboy maybe?
Anyway, maybe women do make things more complicated than they need be but that’s simply because we think deeper and with more feeling than men. And consider this, someone who thinks in a straight line is bound to bang his head into a couple of walls!!!
You are a classic case of someone who doesn’t want to do more than he has to so he makes up reasons why he’s not going to.
You say you are with someone NOW that goes along with all of this? Okeedokee, we’ll see.

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Details, details, details . . . I put me daughter’s favorite party dress in the wash without lookin’ at the tag, and now she’s not only got the most expensive ‘Barbie’ dress in history, but a damned good reason to conclude aloud (and repeatedly) that, “Dad is a dumbhead.”

Bein’ boneheaded is something we’re all capable of, but I took the OP to be limited to them who make a career out of it. I don’t think the argument here is about the washing and ironing so much as the overall issues of power and responsibility. So long as there’s more than one person in a household there’ll always be petty bickering (Lord knows, me ex used to take the toilet roll off the wall and turn it around so’s it would hang ‘correctly’). This kind of crapola is just so much nonsense, and isn’t really worth the effort to form the words to complain about.

But in some households there’s one member who’s either so blind, helpless and irresponsible that you have to conclude they indeed wished to marry a parent to look after their lives for them, or on the converse, so superior, controlling and power-stricken that you’d think they only married in order to create a personal fiefdom, complete with live-in serf.

Sounds like the argument’s pretty well settled on that score – those of us what woke up in one of the extremes have unburdened ourselves, and have no argument with the consequences of going forward alone.

Those of ye that are still bickering over the washing and the toilet rolls and the toothpaste caps and the like need to face the questions a bit more squarely, and realize that changing a full grown adult is not possible. If sorting the wash to save yer clothing from a bonehead is yer cross to bear, I think ye’ve nothing to complain about. Ye’d be doing quite a bit more than yer ‘share’ if yer partner weren’t there at all.

Dr. Watson
“Even the best of us have enough malcathected issues to keep all of Vienna humming for years to come.”

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Smilingjaws wrote:

So the OP was directed at nice guys who are also lazy scum. Mighty select group . . .

Bruce

I used to be naive, now I’m just disgusted and I should live so long as to be amused.

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IrishCait–

While this is the Pit, I have refrained from making any personal attacks… feeling instead that we had moved on to a debate about the differences between the sexes, and perhaps gaining some perspectives about each other and having an open forum to express our ideas about how we saw the separation of duties not only in the house, but in a broader sense, the world.

However, since you have gone out of your way to get my attention, I thought I would take a few minutes to respond.

First, let’s clear up a few facts shall we?

Actually, it’s from a book…you know, those things with just words in them?..And it’s not meant to be a putdown to women at all. Rather it is meant to show that men tend to take a straight-line method of problem solving while women tend to be better at creative or “circular” methods of thought. Do I believe this to be true?..Without getting into a deep analysis of historical precedent, I think I can safely say that women in the past had to put more though into getting the things they wanted/desired. They couldn’t just go out and raid/burn/kill/rape the castles next door. They had to think out solutions to getting what they want…which to me means that they are better at circumspectual methods. Basically I was saying that women are more detail oriented and better overall planners. If you could both read and understand you may have realized that. Try putting a little thought into what you read before you assume you know what you’re talking about.

But let’s move on…shall we? Next you have this to say…

I’m a “classic” case?..Could you cite some of the studies by which you deduce that I fit into this “classic” example?..I personally find that you’re a “classic” case of a lurker-that-registered-7-days-ago-and-has-no-idea-how-to-debate-but-I’ll-jump-into-something-that-I-feel-strongly-about-and-flame-everyone-that-hasn’t-agreed-with-my-point-of-view. So you’ll make snide remarks about someone, attempt (poorly I might add) to flame me, and come to a conclusion without any sort of facts, or reasonable premise’s. Perhaps what you meant to say was that I’m someone that knows his own limitation, and his strength’s. That will gladly do those things I am most capable of while letting my partner do the same. While sharing those chores that we can do together, and separating those that we do best on our own.

And you end your little tirade with this…

Yes, I am with someone now…we’ve been together for 3 years now…getting married in May. I’ve very choosy about who I’m involved with, I take the time to find someone that recognizes my strengths and my weakness’…and her own. So that we can compliment each other.

Next time you decide to post some of your ramblings, be sure and first turn off your soaps, and read what’s been said again. If you were a teacher, I weep for the state of our children…I guess you would be qualified to show the their letters, and how they fit together, but please tell me that someone else was in charge of teaching them comprehension . You like reading?..Try something besides Harlequin Romance…not all men are lazy and worthless, we don’t all fit into the two categories that you see on “Days of our Lives”…We’re a mixture of both good and bad parts…just like women. Were you lashing out because you’re stuck at home now?..That you life revolves around your house?..That you gave up a career to have a family, and your man isn’t all you hoped?..I really don’t care what your reasons are, but I highly suggest that you look somewhere else to vent. Take a look at my other posts on this board…(More than 6) and then perhaps you can make a judgement about me. Not that I’ll really care what you think, but at least you’ll be able to speak knowledgeably.

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Irish said, “Anyway, maybe women do make things more complicated than they need be but that’s simply because we think deeper and with more feeling than men. And consider this, someone who thinks in a straight line is bound to bang his head into a couple of walls!!!”

No, they make things more complicated because they are fussy and tend to focus more on details than the big picture. Women spend more time worrying about the color and texture of the wall. Men just build the damn thing and move on.

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Dear Coffeecat–guess I didn’t make myself very clear to you. Charming does not mean nice, although of course, many charming people are nice guys. Basically I am ranting about men who call themselves “nice guys” who, in fact, are expecting women to assume the majority of responsibilities for courtship, marriage, and family responsibilities. As I have said repeatedly, I am not fussing about the VAST majority of men who are indeed “nice guys” and take responsibility for their lives and family responsibilities. I would like to point out, I am also not ranting about people who sensibly decide on an equitable division of labor, where each person does the tasks to which they are best suited.
OK?

Special–my name is indeed from Lewis Carroll–“How Doth the Little Crocodile” Good call, pal!

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smilingjaws- I understand your complaint about men, but what about the women? It is not a requirement to get married or have a family. If you feel you must assume these responsibilities and it is a burden, then don’t get married, don’t have children. If you feel your SO does not do what he would have to do to maintain his own life outside of a relationship then tell him. Some of the burden has to fall on you for simply doing what does not get done. Just don’t do it. Of course, children change everything, they obviously have needs. If their father neglects these needs in some way he should be told, not just bailed out.

The blame goes both ways on this one.

If your head is wax, don’t walk in the sun.
-Benjamin Franklin

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psycat, i so agree. gotta go w/ the idea that you are taken advantage of only to the extent you allow, male or female. i just can’t abandon the certainty that the gate swings in both directions.

in some circles i would be considered quite the radical feminist. i work at building up the women around me, helping them see their potential & work at it. but part of being for us is seeing where we often become our own collective worst enemy.

smiling, you & i & psycat may have a cache of well-used home-repair tools, but there are still a lot of women who play the ‘martyred me is gonna put down you’ game—as many of them as there are those charming loafers who wait to be waited on.

i never felt there was only one meant-to-be mate for everyone–there’s a type that’s gonna be a good fit. the whiner’s find people who are willing to put up w/ whining. the clingers find someone who wants to be morbidly needed. lots of people who are actually quite able to take care of themselves & everything around them find others who are willing to be the butt of temper tantrums.

HOWEVER, i believe this is also what you were saying in your last few posts.

mea culpa.

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Atrael, I have changed my opinion of you considerably. You are downright entertaining. Honestly, it’s better than the three stooges watching you chase your tail around your comments. “I really meant this, you just didn’t comprehend correctly”. Please!!! Who are you kidding? You can try to sell your “I was just explaining that women think differently” nonsense to someone else, because if you look a few lines up from that comment you will see that you call your fiance an intelligent (my spelling is correct, yours was NOT ) person but she couldn’t learn a certain “impressive” sounding computer program if it killed her!!! And you’re right, I am a teacher, and you FAIL pal. Your writing goes around in circles more than any women’s thoughts ever could!!! Make up your mind. Stick with your thought and execute it because you are quite comical at this level. You might want to start with your profile. I think spell check would be a good gift for you for your next birthday. You’ll be what? 5? 6? Better yet get your intelligent fiance to proofread your postings. Now as far as the soap opera/stuck in the house comments you have no clue what I do all day, nor do I intend to tell you. Suffice it to say that I put my 139 IQ to good use dear. Now be a good boy and go clap these erasers outside on the side of the building. Oh, and I won’t be back on here to listen to your snappy retort. If I want your level of sophistication and intelligence I’ll fish out one of my daughter’s Barney the Dinosaur tapes!!! Thanks for the laughs!!!

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IrishCait–
Well, it takes all kinds here…including someone of your limited IQ. The fact that you bring it up at all tells me that you’re mighty impressed with it. Kind of like an imbecile that manages to tie his shoes correctly and wants to show everyone.

The reason I didn’t explain my comment about women thinking in circles during my first post, is because I assumed (correctly) that most of the other intelligent (happy dear?) posters on this board would understand the point behind it. I did not take into account the occasional half-wit we have here.

Lucky for us all, you will no longer be gracing us with your presence. Among all the bright and intelligent minds around here, your dim one will be hardly missed.

Feel free to comment more, if you can fit us in between your three stooges, and Barney. I’ll be more than happy to use smaller words if that makes it easier for you to understand

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First–I wish this post wrapped the text at a reasonable length. Query–did I do something to do this?

Second: I wish we had some General Caveat we could just cite when making a post:

General Caveat #1: This post refers only to a subset of a population and does not imply that every member of the population contains those characteristics. (Yes, I am only talking about a few men out, not all men)

General Caveat #2: This post does not imply that every member of the opposite group does not contain the characteristics objected to in the OP. (Just because I was ragging on jerky men, does not imply there are no jerky women. I just chose to rant about jerky men, here–turn the post into a rant about jerky women if you like :slight_smile:

It was a rant–not a great debate, ok? Yes, there are jerky women who leech off men. I know a few and IMHO, they are lazy and shiftless.

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Sorry about the extra “out”

Also, I will agree that people have a responsibility to stand up for themselves and not be doormats. But, I still think there are people (men and WOMEN) who are lazy and shiftless and expect other people to assume responsibility for too much just like a spoiled kid. From your arguments, the people who get used by them are just as much to blame. If we were all as smart as each of you, then we would instantly see that we are being used and either assume the responsibility for making that person behave or just cut them out of our lives. If your mom is an extremely dependent women whom your father has taken all responsibility for, then when he dies, just say–ok mom–no more babying for you! Take care of yourself or you’re outa my life! Realistically, you know that’s not really what happens. We all make compromises in life–sometimes because we do love people in spite of their faults just as they love us in spite of ours.
Sometimes, young and naive people get involved with the wrong person and they choose to stick it out based on their sense of obligation. Does that make them culpable or just people of character? Probably depends on the degree of the problem, wouldn’t you say? Staying with an alcoholic who refuses to work and abuses the kids is just plain stupid or mentally ill. What about someone who stays with a person who likes living in a pigpen and won’t lift a finger to do housework, but who contributes her income and keeps care of the kids? Stupid? It might be a sign that someone is putting the children’s need for a stable home with biological mom & dad first–a mark of character.

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& the decisions on many of the situations you cite can change w/ time, maturity, a changing sense of self esteem. life is dynamic (duh!). we all change & (hopefully) grow.

btw, i don’t see anything wrong w/ your word wrap on my screen, smiling.

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Excellent point, Special! Sometimes just being made aware of the problem will make a person change–the advantage of rants!

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Bras are extremely painful? I honestly would like to know: is this true? If it is, I’d just like to say that I fully support the right of women to go braless (sp?).

Oh, and if you’re going to complain about other people’s typos, it would be a good idea not to make your own (it’s and its are separate words).

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Oh, and a clarifation: I did not mean that to be a defense of PitBullDawg’s post.