Doctor who performed abortions shot to death.

What about your brothers and sisters that were never concieved? By your logic, a women who doesn’t deliver a baby every year from her first period to menopause is depriving someone of life.

Well, to be honest it’s frequently (sometimes?) the case that only after all the misconceptions and mischaracterizations about each other have been laid to rest that it becomes apparent that we have less to disagree about than we originally thought to be the case. :slight_smile:

Ok, then change your mom’s pregnancy to that of your much beloved sister or brother.

Hrmm. This seems sort of like a copout of the hypothetical (DtC was a total copout). Forget about the paradoxical nature or philosophical ideas of actual vs. potential. Just boil it down to this:

If you do encourage her, you (or your sibling) are never born.

If you do not, things end up as you’ve always known them to be.

You don’t really have to answer, I’m just trying to provoke the sort of thought that goes through my head.

You’re changing the subject and missing the point of the hypothetical.

I’m not talking about someone who didn’t get pregnant. I’m talking about your mother, who is pregnant with you (or your sibling if the whole paradox thing is gonna trip you up).

Same principle applies. If the past can be changed, then when I arrive everyone I knew is gone; erased. Me, my relatives, everyone.

But I can’t, since that’s the point. Given cloning, should I mourn every dead cell as a dead potential person ? It is, you know, if we decided to develop the technology.

No we shouldn’t, because potential is just potential not actuality. Treating them as identical leads to absurdities like that.

This isn’t true if it’s a younger sibling than yourself.

If you came across a planet that had only one small pond full microbial life, but you had the choice to destroy it or not, because you needed the pondwater they occupied for sustenance, would you? Given millions/billions of years it could evolve into sentient life. That’s potential, but it doesn’t dilute the weight of your immediate, actual decision. It might actually make the decision much harder. That is if you value life, no matter what stage.

…and on it goes…

That wasn’t a copout, that was my honest answer. It’s not my place to tell any woman what to do.

So what?

Let me give *you *a hypothetical:

Would you travel back in time to the night you were conceived and given your father a condom?

If no, are you opposed to safe sex?

Or, say you could travel back in time to the days before your mother found out she was pregnant with you (let’s say 9 months before). You get to talking, and she opens up with you… you seem like a nice-enough looking guy. You learn that she’s been so lonely because her husband neglects her. She has a fifth of Southern Comfort, a lid of grass, and a heart-shaped waterbed. Do you go through with it?

Is this the part where she gets pregnant and is delivered of a hermaphrodite child who is mysteriously kidnapped?

Well, you’re the one calling 'em human as soon as they’re fertilized. You just want people to admit they’re killing humans. And killing humans is murder.

Whole bunch of murderers out there.

This is simply not true. The method of extraction is determined by the gestational age, so no doctor is just going to ask when your last period was and take your word for it. They do an ultrasound.

If I weren’t alive I wouldn’t miss me, so speculating on the potential outcome of my mother having an abortion is pointless.

That said, I, alexandra, am probably alive because of someone else’s abortion, and so is my dad.

No, we don’t.

I would take it a step further, as it seems they are disregarding the woman entirely…as if she weren’t a person at all.

Say you could travel back in time to the days your mother first found out she was pregnant with you (let’s July 1888). You get to talking, and she opens up with you… you seem like a mensch. You learn that if it’s a boy, she plans to name the baby “Adolf.” You catch a glimpse of yourself reflected in the café window and notice, for the first time, a toothbrush moustache on your upper lip. Do you order an Apfelstrudel? I understand they’re quite excellent here.

As you state it we were all sperms too. So every man kills a lot of humans when ever he ejaculates,even if there is a conception.

If you believe life begins at conception, then destroying frozen fertilized eggs is murder. Yet there has never been a court case where it was decided that a woman could be implanted with her fertized eggs against the father’s will.

At what time after the taking of the morning after pill did the woman (who you give as an example), need an abortion? Was she really pregnant? Did she have a test? How would she know if there was a conception? Some people do not want the morning after pill to be legal or off the counter because they think there “Might” be a pregnancy. Isn’t the morning after pill supposed to cause the sperm and egg to prevent a pregnancy? Is a fertile egg a human being?