Doggie advice?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I adopted an absolutely adorable Border Terrier earlier this year, and I’m having a little grooming dilemma I hope someone can help with.

Seems that Border Terriers aren’t the type of dog you can just take into PetSmart and have clipped. They are supposed to be hand stripped, which involves pulling out the outer coat by hand. (Ouch!) After doing much Googling, and reading up on how it didn’t actually hurt, and how you should never have a Border Terrier clipped (it permanently changes their coat), I found a groomer who did hand stripping, and took little Dexter in for what I’m pretty sure was his first ever grooming. He’s been rockin’ the short hair for a few months now, and his scruffy look is finally starting to come back, so he’s almost back to the point of needing to be brushed regularly.

And here comes the problem. Ever since I had him groomed, he is terrified of being brushed. This wasn’t a problem before, and I’m picturing Dexter having a PTSD experience of some sort. Just seeing his brush makes him run off and hide under the bed. I decided to get a grooming glove, which he is less terrified of. He’ll tolerate a couple of swipes with the glove on his back and sides, then it’s back under the bed.

I’ve already decided that he’s never getting stripped again, and since I’d be violating the apparent Unbreakable Rule for Border Terriers, clipping is out of the question, too. His natural coat is kind of a curly, wire-haired look, which I think looks great. But with his natural look, he’s gonna need lots of brushing!

Any advice on how to get him to like being brushed again would be appreciated. I’m being patient with him, but I can’t let him get to the point where he becomes matted, either.

2

High value treats like liver or peanut butter or cheese. Tiny dabs of that given as you brush him. Start out giving lots of treats (as in every few brushes) and slowly back off until he gets a treat at the start and one at the end of a brushing session.

Also loads of “good boy”, “good Dexter” and singsong “time to get brushed” in a positive upbeat voice.

Or you could borrow my oldest son who is very alpha with my Chis and while 1 still screams as she gets her nails clipped she at least doesn’t futilely try to bite him (she has almost no jaw strength but is getting stronger after being with us for 3 years… must have been on a wet dog food only, no chews and no treats but popcorn diet before we adopted her). The other 2 just get bug eyed and wait for him to finish. He clips them because I wear bifocals and just can’t see the good spot to cut anymore. It’s a trade off: he clips nails on my dogs and I do meds for his cats :smiley:

3

Are you absolutely sure about the clipping? I can see looking online that show dog enthusiasts insist that it’s the way to go, but if you’re not going to show him, I’m not sure it’s worth the annoyance and possible trauma it’s causing him to get him stripped. I can’t really see that you can’t get him clipped, although some insist that the coat texture changes. If you’re going to keep it short, I’m not sure that matters.

To start accustoming Dexter to brushing again, find a treat he likes and begin to build positive associations with the act of brushing. A few brush strokes, lots of praise, and treats. Start with very short sessions - even just show him the brush then give him the treat with no brushing. A few days of that, then add a stroke of the brush and a treat. Keep building up and you should be able to re-establish trust in the brush. Patience and go slowly.

4

We are schnauzer people. Standards and minis. They are a breed that “must” be stripped. But, as our dogs are pets we have them clipped at the groomers. They come home handsome, nice smelling, and happy. And fuck those people who think I have any responsibility to the breed, they’re just a bizarre form of zealot.

5

It’s just me, but I really don’t think dogs do the “PTSD” thing.

6

A vet or behaviourist might not use that terminology, but dogs absolutely do suffer stress, and make connections between past events and trauma.

OP, you can look into “counter conditioning.” This is classical conditioning, like Pavlov’s dogs. Here’s a video explaining how it works for a dog stressed out by nail trims.

One of my dogs has gradually been getting worse about riding in the car, she trembles and whines, especially when we stop at traffic lights. (She’s fine on the freeway, California dog!) We did 10 minutes of counter-conditioning on a car trip this morning, and she’s already noticeably calmer. I’m confident that after a few more sessions she’ll be much more comfortable.

I also agree with the posters upthread saying, groom or don’t groom your dog however you choose.

7

I can’t see how clipping his coat with something like a #10 blade would change it forever - it would just change it until it grows to full replacement. 6 months, a year? Maybe a super close blade like a #40 or more would make a difference, but just giving something like a puppy cut shouldn’t matter.

Unless you’re showing him or unless you’re truly concerned his coat will be too rough for your taste if you get it clipped, then it doesn’t matter and you should do what’s best for him and your pocketbook.

Another option is finding a groomer that’s affiliated with a vet’s office where they can sedate him. Some veterinarians will do sedation grooming, the trick may be finding one that can do the stripping properly as well.

8

I have a rescue who was definitely abused before we took him in. I don’t know if I’d classify it as PTSD, but his reactions to thinks like a human holding a stick of any sort or a man reaching for him with both hands prove that he definitely recalls his traumas.

He also used to be afraid of brushing. He’s a whippet, so there’s not a lot of brushing to be done, but our older dog is a mix of beagle and something fluffy, so he needs it quite a bit. I was once brushing Winchester, and his new brother wanted to see what was going on. As soon as I reached toward Wallace with the brush, he peed on the floor and hunched over and tried to hide, then spent ten minutes apologizing to me for his reaction. I cried for about twenty minutes over what had been done to this sweet, stupid dog to make him react that way.

Now, however, I cannot brush Winchester without Wallace literally crawling between his brother and the brush to get himself done. It was a long process involving many treats and “good boys”, but you can get there. Collies are scarily intelligent - it won’t take long for him to realize you’re not doing the hand-strip, AND he’s getting treats!

9

Ugh. Actually, I’ll second this. I did German Shepherd rescue for a few years. I won’t get into all of the asshole things that people would try to “toughen up” their dogs. I met up with dogs that had strong physical reactions to a closed fist, or to a type of person. My parents’ dog used to be so scared of men that she would hide under the shed in the backyard if one came anywhere near her. My childhood cat was a rescue from an illegal animal lab. She hid from men and the sight of a white coat would send her into a panic.

I don’t know if dogs have PTSD flashbacks and all of the other assorted symptoms, but they definitely can remember negative experiences and react in a way I would characterize as traumatized.

10

I’ve worked in dog rescue also and yes, they are completely capable of being traumatized.

IMO, this is why I never take my pets to a groomer, but do it all myself. The groomer is there to get a job done, and if they’re busy they want to get the job done quickly. They’re not going to be exceptionally gentle if the pet needs that, nor are they going to care much about the pet’s feelings, if the pet is scared or whatever. It’s much better for the pet’s peace of mind, not to mention your relationship with it, to gradually and gently condition your pet to being groomed. Lots of people tell me they don’t have the patience for that, and it’s all I can do not to blurt that maybe they shouldn’t have a pet. Caring for a pet REQUIRES patience and compassion.

Just in case I sound holier than thou, here is a story of when I screwed up with one of my dogs and had to start over. He was a generally anxious male greyhound, slow to learn and had a very low tolerance for frustration. Training him was a challenge. And then one day when he was balking at getting into the car, I made the mistake of trying to push him in from behind. You can do that with some dogs. Not this one. He deeply resented it and wouldn’t come near me if I was near the car. I had to go back to micro-mini-baby steps to counter-condition him and re-teach him how to get into the car when I wanted him to. In involved a lot of tossing treats into the car and standing back, but standing slightly closer to the car over time. It took several weeks of making time to do this “exercise” for at least 15 minutes every day. As he gained confidence, it got faster. But man, did I kick myself for being impatient that one day!

11

We have a collie, and were told the same thing… clipping the coat would change it forever!

I gave him a buzz cut anyway. That was about 5 months ago. Today he looks the same as he did before the cut.

12

QFT.

13

Groomer here.

Hand stripping is not something that should be done every couple of months at the groomers. Hand stripping is something that really needs to be done nearly daily. At least a couple times a week. Trying to do months worth of hand stripping in one go is not cool to the dog or to the groomer.

We have quite a number of border terriers, but only two that bother to get hand stripping. One comes in twice a week for the job, the other comes in less frequently, but the owner does it at home between grooming sessions. I charge quite a bit for it as well, essentially $60 an hour, because no one really likes doing it. (It’s hell on the wrist.)

Yes, clipping the coat will probably cause it to change, and become a bit coarser, and if this is something that you are concerned about, then you should do the hand stripping, but very few of my clients have noticed a difference that they cared about.

14

Thanks for the advice everyone…I will keep working with the Little Guy, and give him all the patience he needs. I’m just hoping he can let me get back to brushing his entire coat soon, since I don’t want him to start getting matted around his face and neck, where he will absolutely not let me make contact with any brush.

Rest assured, he is never going to get stripped again, not by a groomer, and not at home, either. I definitely don’t plan on showing him, so it’s not a huge deal for me for him to have a “proper” coat. He was a rescue from a kill shelter, and I am just thrilled to call him a member of my family, regardless if his hair is long, wiry and curly, or short.

I will look into finding a vet’s office that has a groomer on staff…that’s a good option in case I want to get him clipped at some point.

15

I would recommend you get a slicker brush with ball tips like these.

The “Paw Print *Soft Universal Slicker Brushes w/Ball Tips”. You only need a small. They help to prevent you from scratching the dog’s skin when you brush.

It’ll still take some work before he trusts having a brush around, but it looking different may throw him off long enough that he will be fine with it.

The two best ways of holding a dog while brushing (If you don’t have a grooming table with a loop) is either by the beard or over the shoulders. The beard grab is pretty nice, as you control the head and where the head goes, the body goes. Unfortunately, if he is too crazy, he can pull out of that hold. (He can pull his beard hair out if he is crazy enough and you hold it tightly enough.) If that is the case, then holding over the shoulder blades works well. You kinda need to find the right spot, but the shoulder blades actually have very convenient finger grips. Keep him sitting and still with the one hand while you introduce the brush with the other.

I would not recommend actually doing any brushing the first couple times you introduce the brush, let him get a bit comfortable with it first.

About vets and grooming… Now, full disclosure, I am biased, as I run a dog grooming salon, but I don’t think that grooming at the vet is really that great an idea. They are usually pretty stressed about going to the vet, so getting grooming at the vet is a bit of a double whammy. Do you get your hair done at the doctor’s office? I think not.

Also, keep in mind that if they sedate your dog for grooming, that does not mean that they put it out. Usually it’s just left paralyzed for the procedure. It can see, hear, and feel everything. This can cause some pretty serious trauma to it. It’s not all that safe either. Some of my groomers that worked for vets prior tell some pretty scary stories of dogs that almost died under sedation.

Find a good groomer who is willing to take the time to befriend your k9. I have dogs come in that are absolutely nuts. Biting, pissing, and shitting all over the place from the moment they walk in the door. Usually by the third visit, they are pulling their owners across the parking lot to get in the doors faster.

16

You sound like a very good person and groomer. In addition to your suggestions, one I’d add for Deanna counter-conditioning him at home is to do this approach since he’s especially sensitive to the face and neck area:

Start with the back end, and combine gentle petting/stroking with your bare hands with gentle stroking with the brush. You’re not trying to groom him yet, just get him used to the feel of the brush and to learn that it’s not a bad thing. Gradually over time, move the brush stroking forward on his body. The speed at which you do that depends on his reaction. Tension is fear so you should back off. As long as he’s relaxed, you can move gradually forward. Keep the sessions very short at first, and increase the time gradually as long as he’s relaxed the whole time. Never end on a bad note. Give him a treat at the end of the session.

I would also talk to him in a soft but happy tone of voice. I do this when teaching new hounds to tolerate tooth brushing. I tell them how pretty they are, sing little nonsense songs to them, tell them funny things like that we have to brush both sides or they’ll walk around lopsided, etc. Obviously that’s more to amuse myself, but it helps keep me in a light-hearted frame of mind which keeps me patient and gentle.

17

k9bfriender, that’s some great stuff to think about. I actually do have a small slicker brush somewhere. I might have to go find that and give it a try.

I’m also going to ask around and see if I can find a different groomer that has dealt with frightened dogs before, and maybe take him in for a trim after I win the battle of the brush.

As far as the brushing goes, I think I may have hit some progress. I let Dexter watch me brush my other dog with the grooming glove. She’s a Beagle, who lives for belly rubs, and does not object at all to getting extra attention. Dexter will watch from a distance, then move in and sniff the glove. I’m not making any attempt to brush him, which seems to make him even more curious about inspecting the glove. I’m hoping his curiosity leads to a breakthrough.

18

Yes, that will help! Dogs learn a great deal from each other. In fact, when you start to groom him, I would do it in the presence of the other dog. Go back and forth between them at the beginning so that it’s like you’re loving on them both.

19

That’s almost exactly how I got my scaredy-dog to acclimate. My fluffier guy kept walking through burrs in the backyard, so he would need a brushing every time they came inside. Wallace would get jealous of the extra attention his brother was getting and let me brush him, too.

20

JcWoman, I’m really hoping this turns into a big breakthrough. Dexter is a fuzzy little attention hog, and gets very excited when he sees Molly is getting loved on. I’m sure if he could speak, he’d be shouting, “Me next! Hurry! Me next!” She is the most laid back dog ever, and he is very bouncy and just full of joy for everything in life. Their personalities really mesh well, though, and I have noticed that since I’ve had Dexter, he’s picked up a couple of things from his big sis. She taught him how to do “takeout” by grabbing a mouthful of food from the bowl in the kitchen, then carrying it to my bedroom to snack on later.

Dogs are just the best!