Imagine your kids, not as addicts, but hurt souls who KNOW that their mother doesn’t love them because of a mistake they made when they teens.
How happy are you now?
If anything, I would think that Mom abandoning would make them MORE likely to become drug addictions, wouldn’t it? At least, that’s how I’d feel.
Some of the things Declanium has said suggest 12-Step and/or disease-theory philosophies of substance use. It’s an out-dated (IMO) way of thinking about usage behaviors that suggests anyone who ever imbibes any substance in a less than optimal way (e.g a semester or two of binge drinking or getting more than one hangover a year) is without a doubt an addict and will only end up in prison or a grave unless they turn themselves over to God or something else that’s irrational. I think Declanium is totally taken in by ancient Oxford group thinking. She can’t comprehend any way people could use marijuana without throwing their lives away at the same time. Any evidence presented in here is people being “In Denial”.
They almost certainly will. Or at least they’ll tire of elevating it in their minds to a magical, god-like manna from heaven. But it takes a couple of years because it’s only natural to venerate the stuff. You will too when you finally try it.
I lived in the Netherlands for a while. This was long before US states started legalizing. I was in my early 30’s at the time and happy to smoke lots of pot every day. It was fun. It was novel. It was interesting. I smoked pot before (and after) I lived there.
I noticed that the Dutch used pot differently than Americans. In the ‘pretty bad old days’ (1990-2005 or so, it was worse before) users I knew in the USA were secret and slightly obsessive about pot. As in ‘smoke it if ya got it’. A kind of ‘feast or famine’ approach that led to people passing bongs around trying to get as stoned as they could. IMO in that era the drug itself was fairly harmless (as ever) but psychologically I don’t think it’s good to obsess over using a drug and idolize it.
The Dutch used it more as a spice. Like something to mildly flavor and sprinkle some happy into an evening of leisure, before the dancing drained you and the booze tired you. I can’t explain it well but it was so calm and harmless… like after-dinner cordials.
Anyway, the point is, this was something younger people did. Something they knew about, had heard it was a positive, nice experience and they wanted to try it. As far as I could tell, and this is backed up by conversations with Dutch friends and family, folks there just kind of naturally slow down and mostly stop using cannabis as they get into their 40’s or so.
It’s not some craaaaaazy life-long navel-gazing obsession. It’s something people explore for a time and then move on. Of course some use it beyond this age but few use it in a way that would impact their lives poorly. Why would they? It’s more like an occasional hot fudge sundae than an occasional spike of heroin.
Kayaker seems to be an older man.
Smokes daily he says.
And would resent his gf if she asked him to stop.
Sounds like an addiction to me
I’ll be 62 in two weeks. Now that you know, I’ll be watching for well wishes!
Yep, I smoke daily. I’ve had my medical card for almost a year now, so my supply is more assured than it used to be. Note that I do not smoke before or at work. I own a small, successful business and do not allow myself or my employees to partake on the clock.
I never said I’d resent her. I love her and if she asked me to stop I would in a heartbeat. I said I’d resent her asking a bit. Subtle, but important difference in my POV. See here:
Do you understand what “addiction” means? I enjoy cannabis immensely but if I do not have any, as has been the case throughout most of my life, I would just do without. When I lived in Philadelphia for four years (education) I had no real hookups and chose to do without.
Likewise, when watermelon is in season I eat it daily. I love watermelon. I find that watermelon enhances my life. I’ve even pickled the rind. But if I cannot get fresh, ripe melons then I go without.
Sorry to pile on you, kayaker.
It’s not fair. I reference you a lot in a very judgmental way, and I apologize.
HB in advance
Hey, I can understand how you’d feel about someone happily using cannabis while you are going through these things with your kids. I remember the fear I experienced when my kids were growing up and being exposed to things that could cause them harm.
Hope all works out well for you.
I, like kayaker, am a 60-something (also about to have a birthday) daily weed smoker of decades duration. I’m self employed and do fairly well for myself, have raised two kids (one smokes weed occasionally, the other not at all–says it makes him paranoid) and both my parents and my stepdad were pot smokers back in the day as well.
My dad would find it amusing that people think smoking weed is incompatible in some way with being successful (retired VP from IBM) if it weren’t for the fact that he stopped smoking weed in favor of drinking and is now (at 86!) sinking gently into alcohol enhanced dementia. My mom and stepdad owned their own very successful business and after my stepdad died about 20 years ago, mom took over and ran it herself before selling hers and stepdad’s shares to their (hey, also smokes weed!) younger third partner. They’re in the process of selling the business property they own to a developer and when escrow closes mom will be a millionaire on top of her already perfectly comfortable retirement income. Stepdad was the first high end weed dealer I knew, went to San Francisco State and knew like every grower up in Humboldt and Trinity counties–people who said ''fuckit" to the rat race and went off to grow amazing weed instead, back when it was illegal. Now it’s fully legal for both medical and recreational in California, Oregon (where I live), Nevada and Washington and things are pretty chill out here.
What we’re trying to get across is that, regardless of whatever skeery articles you can find on the internet, pot smokers are just like anyone else. They’re successful or not successful, nice or buttholes, rich or poor–and none of these things are changed much at all by them smoking weed. Or vaping it. Or munching edibles. Pot, unlike alcohol, is an enhancer–it builds on what you already are and makes it a bit more than it was. It does not make you stupid or unmotivated or crazy but if you already were those things then you’ll still be that way with or without the weed but maybe a bit more so. Likewise, if you’re creative, thoughtful, funny, smart, ingenious or crafty, weed will tend to make you more like that as well. It’s what weed DOES–your entire body has an endocannabinoid system built into it that CBD and THC plug right into, receptors that are always there and that have evolved to fit the active ingredients in cannabis. And the endocannabinoid system works exactly that way–it enhances your body’s abililty to heal and cope with inflammation and supports your immune system. Just as the psychoactive ingredients plug into what your brain already does on its own and encourages to do it more and better. Which can be great if your mind goes to good and productive places on its own and not so good if your brain naturally goes to maladaptive behaviors and self destructive paths. Like depression, and paranoia, and obsessive thoughts–pot can make those harder to deal with in people who have them already.
Pot just tends to make people more themselves and if you don’t like someone’s personality already you’re likely to not like it when they’re stoned either. It’s not changing them though, just bringing out the traits you don’t like. Not the weed’s fault you don’t like someone!
nicely put, Smartie. but I would expect no less! 
Our bodies have opioid receptors, too.
I mean, I don’t think pot is dangerous like heroin is dangerous. But pointing to the fact that we are set up to react to it isn’t an especially strong argument as to its safety.
Next time you get massively hurt and are in pain tell me again why opioid receptors are a bad thing. We have receptors for things that are USEFUL to us. If we choose to go beyond usefulness into maladaptive behaviors that’s not the fault of the substance or our bodies. We have to eat food to survive–some of us eat so much terrible food that we literally kill ourselves with it so tell me how hunger proves that food is bad? You have a great big disconnect going on here, maybe you ought to examine your own prejudices. Also, get back to me when you find a documented case of someone dying due exclusively to weed use. I’ll wait, I’m patient like that. No fair coming up with some poor bastard who got in the way of a bale of the stuff falling from a great height though, that would be disingenuous.
Huh? Did you read what I wrote?
Yes, of course we get a lot of value from opioid receptors. Did I say otherwise? And I was really explicit in saying “I don’t think pot is dangerous like heroin is dangerous.” I’ve never heard of an overdose death from weed, nor has any doctor I’ve talked to about it. And I have a lot of friends who have used it without incident, or who used too much of it, and decided it wasn’t good for them and quit – without any fuss or difficulty. I know people with drug problems. But I don’t know anyone with a weed problem.
I voted to legalize cannabis in my state, and convinced several friends to do likewise.
But just like, “it’s natural, so it must be safe” is a flawed argument, “we have ready-made receptors for it so it must be safe” is a flawed argument.
Utter bull. Did you read ANY of the posts from people who were (or are married to people who were) pot/drug/booze hounds as kids and are now perfectly useful adults? Experimenting with pot as a kid isn’t a death sentence.
YES, smart kid you have there. Listen to him.
You should. The only way he can earn your trust is if you do start to trust him. If you never trust him again after this hiccup you are going to lose him completely, not bring him back to you.
I’ve sent you a pm, if you want to talk.
And I don’t think you read what I wrote either. I was quite clear that cannabinoid use can result in deleterious effects in some people. What they have never done and never will do is actually damage a person physically because that’s not how that works. Sure, someone could have an allergy and have a bad reaction to cannabis–but that is not a cannabinoid issue, it’s a histamine issue, just the same as if someone is allergic to peanuts we don’t blame peanuts for being inherently dangerous. Someone could get stoned and become paranoid and that could aggravate an underlying mental instability–but that is not a cannabinoid issue, it’s a mental health issue. Just in the same way that a whistleblower did not cause the problem they report, the cannabinoids do not cause the issues they may sometimes disclose. These are different things. Cannabis is absolutely safer than basically any drug you will ever find–it doesn’t cause damage. It is not an intoxicant. It does not cause mental illness. Every attempt made during the last 100 years to demonize this safe and useful plant has been disproven and discredited.
Opiates, on the other hand, absolutely can and will depress the central nervous system and in high enough dosages that will lead to death. The same is not true of cannabinoids–the LD-50 of THC approaches infinity. Alcohol absolutely can and will kill you in sufficient quantities–either quickly via toxicity or slowly by damaging internal organs. Cannabinoids cannot and will not do that in any concentration. These are completely different drugs and operate differently. Cannabis, in and of itself, is safe because it does not have a level at which it becomes toxic. Opiates and alcohol are not because they do have easily achieved toxic levels. Opiates, cannabis and alcohol are all natural substances which either grow out of the ground all by themselves or are the natural result of normal fermentation processes. Two of these substances can be and often are quite dangerous. The third is not.
May I have your sons? I’m a Fagin-like character.
You sure do talk purty.
I hope everything goes well here in the long run, and that Declanium at least appreciates people opening their hearts in the hope that her family ends up stronger in the long run.
I think it’s a great step that you recognize this about yourself. The world is rarely black and white. Using drugs is not black and white. Have you heard of a “runner’s high”? Drug effects without ingesting drugs. In fact, most of the psychoactive drugs work by triggering natural pathways in our brain that we have for good reasons. (Maybe that’s what SmartAleq was trying to get at, despite my still thinking they expressed it poorly.) That means that we have ALL triggered ALL those pathways in the course of a normal drug-free life.
Yes, it’s possible to train your body to the point where you can’t feel any effect of triggering that pathway without a drug. And yes, that’s often part of addiction.
But your sons are in luck. They only used cannabis (probably). They didn’t use any of the really addictive psychoactive drugs.
Weed has two huge virtues as a recreational drug:
- it’s not very toxic (I’m not sure there IS a documented case of a death from cannabis overdose. It’s certainly extremely rare, and not something anyone should worry about with anything resembling normal use.)
- it’s not very addictive.
Do some research. Based on anecdotes from my friends, and people on this board, it’s easier to quit cannabis than to quit caffeine. It’s MUCH easier than quitting booze or tobacco.
Cannabis has a long history of moderate use by humans, and is a normal social drug in some cultures, like alcohol is in ours. The only reason we demonize it is historical accident.
No, I don’t, either. But I’ve never worried about my kids using cannabis. (I’m slightly worried my son might drift into drinking too much, but right now he doesn’t have a problem. And he’s an adult. So… )
I think, if you find you need to draw bright lines, that you should move cannabis to the other side of that bright line. Put it with alcohol. A drug that can be abused, but can also be used in moderation as part of a happy productive life.
Mind you, I don’t think “bright lines” are a great way to look at the world. But you do say it’s your nature to view the world that way.
It’s good that you recognize this. Your sons are teens, and no, you can’t control your teens. They need to make their own decisions, make some mistakes, hopefully, with the support of loving parents who can catch them when they fall.
It’s not about you. They are their own people. But they are still your sons. The best thing you can do for them is to love them.
You can, of course, control some aspects of their lives, as they are dependent children living in your house. For instance, you should certainly ban their use of pot in your home, given how you feel about it. You can also remind them of the importance grades and sports and non-drug social activities, and push them to continue in those arenas.
see above, about pot not being very addictive. This is almost certainly false. Just because they’ve found a new way to have fun hardly means they can’t have fun in other ways. You said they had fun baking cooking with you and watch Christmas TV shows EVEN THOUGH THEY HAD USED WEED. Doesn’t that prove they can still have fun other ways?
I’m sure he DOES say things he wants you to hear. But he’s almost certainly telling the truth about this.
I know I got a lot of negative backlash and even got a pit thread about me but in reality, my “done with sons” thread had been refreshed due to my comment on the “can you tell a kid’s future by 16” or something to that effect. I merely said that yes, I believe you can tell. And gave my personal reasons why I believed that to be the case. And we were off to the races.
I had said that I adjusted my expectations or hopes for them based upon what they are currently doing. Using drugs.
Have you all never adjusted expectations for your kids?
Ex. Star athlete heading to NFL or NBA suffers debilitating knee injury at 16. Ok, adjust the expectations. Different outcome in store.