I just want you to know that those of us on the conservative/libertarian side agree with the basic premise that there are a lot of complete idiots in this nation. We just think they all vote democrat:)
complete idiot = undecided voter 3 days before a presidential election.
The fact that Bush was caught for DWI doesn’t bother me. Hell, if he is elected I and the president will have one thing in common; we have both been arrested for the same thing.
However, it does bother the hell out of me that he has apparently lied about it. This country does not need another Clinton.
Bush and Gore’s inability to stick to the truth makes me proud that I will vote for Harry Browne on Tuesday.
Stoidela said:
Yeah, I’ve been saying that about Gore for quite awhile.
My take on this whole thing:
(1) Is it relevant to the issue at hand? Of course not, no more than Gore’s pot smoking. It was 24 years ago–big deal.
(2) Does the fact that Bush didn’t come clean about it long ago mean he’s a liar, and is hypocritical when he calls Gore’s character into question? Well, let’s see: Bush evaded the issue and lied to reporters; Gore lied during a federal investigation into the breaking of laws that he had taken an oath to uphold. Anybody who can claim these are coequal with a straight face should be running for office themselves. (I apologize to anybody who reallybelieves Gore was in the bathroom when all the illegal fundraising was discussed…and, I assure you, the rumors you’ve heard about there being no Santa are absolutely untrue.)
(3) Did the Democratic Party have a hand in this? Does a bear shit in the woods, hmm?
(4) Was Bush stupid for not trotting this whole thing out himself a year ago or more? Yep–absolutely no question. Doesn’t anybody read Advise And Consentanymore? The past is never gone if you insist on going for high political office.
(5) The big question–will it have an effect on the election? I think it will. Not a big one–out of every 20 voters who make up their minds based on this stuff, Bush probably gains 9 and loses 11–but this is a close election. Is that enough to change a Bush win into a Gore win? We won’t know for sure until Tuesday night or Wednesday morning. I myself had the odds of winning at 53-47 for Bush; now I’m placing them at 51-49 for Bush, meaning I’m significantly less sure.
I’m impressed with the number of people saying “It was 24 years ago, so it doesn’t matter.” Well, the DUI by itself really doesn’t matter, I agree.
But the coverup, the hiding, the pretense lasted right up until last Friday. That shows the kind of leadership we’d have.
That shows the leadership we’ve had. We’ve had the Grand Poo Bah of lying and cover-ups with Clinton. And Gore is clearly a liar as well. And when confronted with it, they (Clinton and Gore) spin and lie and try to weasel out of it.
Bush’s indirect way of admittiing (without admitting) that he had a DUI (“didn’t have a perfect record”) seems pretty feeble compared to Gore’s lies. And, when confronted with it, he came clean quickly, no spinning, no twisting the facts, no “it depends what ‘is’ is.”
So, we have to pick, which liar to elect? That is what it comes down to.
Yosemitebabe, the Democratic nominee is Al Gore. Bill Clinton is not running.
Occasionally, the GOP partisans need a reminder of that. They could also use a few facts to support their endless charges of Gore’s “lying”.
We now return you to your fantasyland, already in progress.
Gore is considered to be a liar by many people. That has been the topic of many a thread here, and a topic for discussion elsewhere. It is a current issue. It is a Gore issue. Where have you been?
Been right here in the real world all along, waiting for facts. “Gore is considered to be a liar by many people” is not particularly convincing, except maybe to those who repeat it to each other.
You can live in your dream world, where Gore never told a falsehood, be my guest. There’s been plenty of evidence that he is a liar. Hell, he even had to concede in one of the debates that he had gotten “details” wrong.
But if you want to convince yourself that he didn’t know it was a fundraiser, etc., knock yourself out.
I am sincerely seeking information here: why in god’s name would you want as president a man who has demonstrated absolutely no ability of any kind at anything in his entire life?
What exactly is it about this guy that makes you say to yourself: “Yeah! I like this guy! I want him making the big decisions for me! Owned a ball team? Screwed a bunch of people on a bad oil deal? Schmoozed his way into leading the most backward state in the nation? COOL BEANS! That’s my man!”
I’m not talking about his stand on any issues, because the guy down the street might have ideas you agree with. What makes you think that this man will be effective, intelligent, and competent to do the most demanding and meaningful job on Earth?
My sarcasm aside, I really wanna know.
I think you folks are missing my point here: whether or not you support one or the other, it is the same f*ing thing. Unless you want to explore the minutiae of whom is the bigger or better bullshitter.
The issue of integrity is out the damned window. Bush is a politician, too. Deal with it now, or deal with it later. The fact is you’re getting an 87 octane president whatever the label.
I’m voting for my own ass. Most of the rest of you have more philosophical thoughts to explore.
What do you tell your kids about having sex in the Oval Office with an intern? That it’s OK as long as you have Jesse Jackson come over and pray with you about it?
No thanks. If I can manage to figure out sexual harassment is wrong, I expect my President to be able to do so as well.
And before you say that Gore didn’t do the things above, he openly condoned them. Remember the Rose Garden speech, after the IMPEACHMENT? “Bill Clinton is the best President we’ve ever had.” OK, sure.
i find it disgusting that the very same people that castigate democrats for their failings, are now saying that that this is nothing and should be forgotten and how dare we even bring this up. it were clinton or gore that had had a dwi arrest, they most definately would have had a far different reaction. can you say hypocrite??
guess what?? that was not sexual harassment. nobody, not even the pious clinton-hater has ever tried to claim that!
Stoidela
Graduated Yale. (better grades than Gore) Earned an MBA from Harvard. Was a fighter pilot. Govenor of Texas. Overwhelmingly re-elected.
I think you have been reading to many DNC news pieces about Bush. You may not like the guy, but he has shown ability. With the exception of his Sosa trade, he looks like he has a good track record for the last 20 years or so.
If I’m not voting for someone who will move the country in the direction I want it to go in, then what the hell am I voting for? I think Bush is going to surprise a lot of people over the next 4 years. I started out this season not liking him at all. I have been supporting Browne from the get go. I felt towards Bush what the die-hard Naderites feel towards Gore. I have warmed up to Bush over the last couple of months. He is not my first choice, but I like him a heck of a lot better than Gore.
I just want to point out that Hitler, Mao and Stalin were probably considered to be effective, intelligent, and competent. If the guy wants to use his talents in a direction that conflicts with the way I believe things should be, then I can not vote for him.
There is a clear choice between Bush and Gore. One wants a larger, more intrusive federal Gov’t, while the other one wants to increase personal choice.
**ElvisL1ves
**
Two words for you:
Buddhist Temple
I know I heard several people (columnists, talking heads, etc.) who stated that someone so senior, both in age and authority, having sex with someone so young, who is an underling, is by definition sexual harrassment. Doesn’t matter if it was on the surface “consensual.” You don’t think it was abusive at all in this regard–the leader of the free world, in his fifties, having sexual relations with someone in her early twenties who is a junior-lackey member of his staff?
Freedom2 said:
Was rejected after applying to University of Texas law school. Became a fighter pilot only after scoring the bare minimum on the entry tests (the 25th percentile) and then mysteriously doesn’t know where he was the year he was in the National Guard, even after passing by a 100,000 person waiting list. Governor of a state that gives the governor no power. (and yes, I have been reading Shrub lately 
)
ElvisL1ves: Both candidates lie. Gore’s are more in the form of exaggerations (“I took the initiative in creating the Internet”), and Bush’s are more in understatements (“No conversations” with the funeral director).
Please explain - what “lie” (and I’m looking for an actual quote here) was that? And is it the worst you can do? What else you got on him after 8 years that actually stands up to scrutiny?
Who flashed the thong panties at whom?
Hey, props to you, Freedom2. You’re going with your conscience and your beliefs. You’ve already accepted the concept of compromise. I think you’re being pretty reasonable in that respect.
Chances are I won’t be cancelling your vote either. There’s about a million Virginians I have to deal with first.