Look from October 12, 2000 up to the present day. Can you see a patern?
I see, so only time periods where there is an inordinate amount of “terrorism” perpetrated by muslims count, eh? The previous thousand or two thousand, or fuck, even the last hundred years, where white christinas were the perpetrators of terrorism and acts of oppression, repression, and agression don’t count.
That’s fucking sweet. Ugly as hell, hardly makes any sense to me, but sweet nonetheless.
You guys enjoy this pity party without me because I’m not buying your bullshit. Not a bit.
Sam
I condem this event only slightly less than I condem the actual murder. Both are terrorist activities.
Anything else, Deb?
I’ve been close enough to hear two terrorist bombs in my life - both Christian (IRA - mainly funded by Americans BTW) - the fuckers blew up my favourite bookshop and the place I used to work
Terrorists want you to run around like scared little bunnies - and that’s what you seem to be doing with talk of “complete submission to Islamic extremism” Bollocks.
Yes, various countries need to re-examine how they deal with Islamic extremists, but this panic and blind xenophobia is just pathetic.
Who condemned the entire religion? I said that “much” of the muslim world was barbaric. There are millions who support terrorist actions such as suicide bombing, hijacking, as well as the virtual enslavement of women, the severe oppression of religious minorities (even if they’re Muslims), stoning people to death, or dropping walls on them.
Certainly, and I’d have no problem calling much of the United States during that time barbaric for the lynchings that occured and the ill treatment of many people. You can still find people in the United States who would love to see blacks hanging from trees just like the good old days. Those people are few and far between and thoroughly removed from the mainstream.
Marc
Even better, if you look from November 7th, 2004 up to the present day, and even scarier pattern emerges: 100% of all terrorist attacks are committed by the Dutch!
Clearly, immediate military intervention is needed to bring peace and democracy to this troubled region.
:smack:
Here is a good overview of the situation by Michael Ledeen:
http://www.nationalreview.com/ledeen/ledeen200411101620.asp
The order to kill Theo van Gogh may - may - have come from Spain. The plot thickens.
As someone from a Muslim background, I am to a small degree glad that this is happening. Perhaps this is what the worldwide Muslim community needs to realize that they cannot let their fundamentalists get out of control and commit such heinous crimes in non-Muslim countries, that the actions of those who claim to be Muslim do have an impact on their lives and on the relations between them and the communities they live in/with.
(Side note: there is a major difference between the execution of van Gogh and the attacks on Muslim buildings. The latter are to intimidate, not kill. There have been, to my knowledge, no injuries even. If Muslims were doing it, they would have attacked the school while it was in session. Like in Beslan. And the Sudan.)
(Side note 2: I hope children see these attacks. That way they can ask, “Why did they do this?”
“Because we killed a blasphemer.”
“Why did we kill a blasphemer?”
“Because the shariah says so.”
“But isn’t that illegal here?”
“…”
“Why is it illegal here but the shariah says to do so?”
“…”
“Is it okay to kill people?”
“Shut up and go do your homework.”
This way the children will be stunned enough to rethink what’s going on, so that they will not get stuck in the complacency and stupidity of their parents.)
In a newspaper I read on Tuesday, there was a blurb how a sign near a mosque in the Netherlands was removed because the mosque called it racist and insulting. The sign said, “Thou shalt not kill.” I have no pity for these Muslims who refuse to acknowledge and affirm this fact that is espoused by all religions.
For too long Muslims have sat back, complacent, inactive, while letting deranged people hijack the religion and its good name. For too long they have not tried to come out and say, “Look, what you stand for is wrong. It is not our religion. Now reform or leave.”
The son of a friend of my parents once told me that some Arab families moved into the community he lived in. His family went often to a nearby mosque. The Arab group became more influential at the mosque and slowly began instituting changes. It finally came to the point that other Muslim families, those who attended the mosque way before these changes came, began to complain. They demanded that this new group be admonished. They would not let them hijack their religion or institution. The board of directors or whatever met, and they made a decision: they asked all the active members of the Arab community who attempted to enforce their view of Islam to cease participation at the mosque. Their membership at the mosque was rescinded.
There is a battle for the soul of Islam. I have seen it with my own eyes. Muslims themselves are being trapped, impotent to oppose those who wish to dictate their deranged views.
It is time for Muslims to stand up and unite, to put away their petty divisions, and to affirm Islam’s value of all human life. It is time that they admonish their own, to correct them, and to warn them that they must act like human beings or risk being expelled from their community. It is time Muslims began acting more like Muslims.
I condemn the Muslims who applaud, approve, or tolerate the execution of any human being on such flimsy crimes as “blasphemy” or “insulting what’s holy” or “insulting Islam.” Van Gogh was a hero, in my eyes, for exposing rampant misogyny among Muslims today. (Islam as a religion is neither pro- or anti-woman. What is pro- and anti-woman is how the religion is interpreted. And the current popular interpretation of Islam is quite misogynistic.) I condemn Muslims who do not take an active stance in condemning terrorism commited by terrorists. I condemn secular governments who appease such Muslims in fear of insulting or offending them.
I applaud Muslims who stand up for the rights of all people, and for Islam. I applaud Muslims who admonish their own to act like human beings. I applaud communities that are not afraid to say to terrorism’s face: we reject you and those who support you!
WRS - “La’natullah al fitnah fi’l-Islam!”
God bless you, WeRSauron. Yours is the voice I have waited to hear - the voice I have wanted to hear - the voice of merciful, rational, compassionate Islam. It is like a drink of cool water in the desert and it soothes the hate in my soul.
Originally posted by Miller
I’m sure I’m being wooshed, for that, ofcourse, is bullshit. Non-religious schools and christian churches have been burned down. Silly.
Indeed, WeRSauron. Thank you. I very much agree on:
Here’s to hoping more muslims will act this way so we can all live in peace, side by side.
Thank you once more for your voice of reason and intelligence.
I wholeheartedly wish to add my admiration and appreciation for WeRSauron’s post. I firmly believe it has broadened my understanding of the serious problem we all face, and it is my hope that this message can take on some legs and educate a whole lot of people. We are all, muslims and otherwise, facing the same threat.
Thankyou WeRSauron
Yes, you’re being whooshed, gum. My post was intended to highlight the stupidity of Dog80’s post. It’s easy to create whatever “pattern” you want if you set up entirely arbitrary windows in which to collect your data.
Not that I blame you for missing that. With some of the crap that gets posted here in total earnestness, I can understand why it’s hard to seperate the idiocy from the irony.
Or, you know The Crusades and The Spanish Inquistion (yes, I know, no one expects it).
How do you define “much”?
Indeed. I could have pulled examples from every century since the rise of Christianity, but I figured that I’d stick with the last hundred years or so.
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How do you define “much”?
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My point exactly. And if you haven’t written off the religion and just “much” of the world that is muslim, what exactly have you branded as “barbaric”?
Sam
hehehe, Miller, thanks. I was beginning to doubt my sense of humor. 
I find it interesting that some are willing to downplay the depravity of the school bombings just because nobody got killed.
If some guy happened to be walking by at the moment the bomb went off, maybe letting his dog have a piss, would the bombing then be equivalent to Van Gogh’s murder?
Clearly, the people who set this bomb off really didn’t give a shit whether they happened to kill anybody.
How do I know this?
Because they blew up a fucking bomb in the middle of a fucking town.
Saying otherwise it like saying I don’t deserve a DUI if I happen to avoid mowing anybody down on my way home from the bar.
aw… why don’t we keep it to the present? And you hardly have to go back to the thirteen century to find examples of Christian crimes. Actually few things highlight the intellectual poverty of the Arab world more than when one need to hark back to a fallen culture from the middle ages to show the genius of the Arab world. Plenty of European crimes in the twentieth century, however that doesn’t remove the undeniable fact that here and now, today, at this place and this time, you are not going to get killed if you criticize Jesus, you apparently run just that risk if you criticize Mohammed. And no amount to relativising is going to alters that.
Inability to give a precise definition of the extend of the problems does not remove the fact that there is a problem. And when artists are slaughtered in broad daylight on the streets of Europe for something they said I dare to say this is a big fucking deal, which I want taken care of. Now. Wouldn’t we all be better served by facing that problem, get it out in the open and perhaps resolve it, rather than looking for ways to avoid addressing it?
For that matter, I find it odd that people find the crusades so much worse than the Arabic Jihad which preceded them and the Turkish expansion which caused them - and followed them. Surely you’re aware that the large part of the Arab world was Christian before it was overrun by Moslems. Not that it makes any change, since it’s history and while interesting there’s nothing we can do about it. The present however – that we can do something about.
Aaaahh. It’s like a breath of fresh air to see the EUers either meet or eclipse America’s level of bigotry. I was beginning to think it was just the U.S. for a while there.
Sam
EUers is that an Alderbarnish? Anyway it’s good to see you can address the subject without platitudes and insults. That’s the spirit Sam. Hide it away and we’ll have this problem solved in no time.