Please excuse spelling and grammar, my sausage fingers are especially creeky this early…
Well, so much for the people who go through a bad spot in their marriage, one of them cheats, but ultimately they manage to work through the difficulties and keep the marriage. Let’s hope those couples don’t have any hedges that need pruning, otherwise the non-cheating spouse is gonna get awfully tired of doing it by him or herself all the time…
Phlosphr, I think you’re looking at this through the eyes of a happily married couple. It’s very difficult to see how this can happen if you’ve never reached the point where you simply need to feel good (emotionally or physically), however briefly. Nobody wants to get to that point in their relationship.
No, I don’t think happily married people are problemless. But with all due respect, until you walk a mile in their shoes, it’s pretty unfair to say that everyone has to deal with their marital problems the way you do. Financial circumstance, physical intimacy, emotional accessibility, age, personal development, illness…all these things can play into infidelity.
People get married for a variety of reasons. I think you and I may have exchanged views on this in another thread. Your marriage (and it sounds like a great one) is based on love. Many others aren’t. They may have started that way, but people evolve, often times independent of each other. People within a relationship may have varying degrees of strength and skill to effectively work within a marriage. People have different levels of tolerance…different degrees of need or different degrees of ability to meet their partner’s needs. All I’m saying here is that a pat statement that everyone just has to try harder is an unfair statement. We don’t know how hard they tried. We don’t know exactly what was the straw that broke the bond between them, and we certainly don’t know if the relationship is truly over yet. But if it is, it is probably for the best.
Not all marriages are destined to last into old age. Many shouldn’t. We certainly can’t judge that for these people based on our life experiences. Only they can know if it is right to continue their union.
Wow. This has been busy during the night. I’ll do my best not to miss anyone’s questions, but if I do, just point them out and I’ll go back to them. Bear with me.
As previously mentioned, she found out about a month into it. I wanted to say the whole spiel; “I love him and want to spend the rest of my life with him.” He, obviously, squashed that idea and I, stupidly, thought it was in the best interest of his children to give him the time he needed to spend with them before he left. That proved to be nothing more than a ruse and I an idiot for buying it.
She definitely suspected though that we kept seeing each other. It was a common discussion routinely throughout the remaining year and any time he was delayed or seemed to be doing something curious, I was brought up as the probable cause.
Ultimately, her listening in to one of our (final) phone calls is what brought the affair to an end. Like I said, I think, less than a week before he was supposed to move in. She has chosen to take him back, with little to no consequences, although (again, obviously) the grievances were many and great. However, that’s no longer any of my business. Which, of course, makes me sad and confused. It’s hard to just abruptly stop something you were used to for a year. Or to turn off your love for someone like a faucet. But that’s the reality I have to face and no one has put me in this position but myself.
I saw her in person, passing, once. She didn’t look happy, but if I thought my spouse was cheating on me, I’m sure I wouldn’t be either. As for his children, he arranged, right there before the end, a surreptitious meeting of sorts. We agreed on a store to both be at around the same time and I could at least see them in advance. Actually, not only was it pitiful for me to know what I had already caused that they couldn’t know about, but because we were about to turn their world upside down. I also felt ashamed because I knew the oldest (his daughter) would undoubtedly hate me and it would take forever to try and be a good presence for them. All in all, it was a horrible thing to experience for me. He was thrilled with it though and felt things went well.
They are darling children though. The girl is a tomboy, which I adore, and the son is super smart. He’ll go far if he stays with his learning. As I did then, I do now wish them the best and with all my heart, prayy that I didn’t do nearly as much damage as I feel I did.
God God, Kalhoun, I would expect a better argument from you! Becoming emotionally involved with a married man with children is easier than some simple paperwork and enough self-control to not have an affair while it goes through the courts? I absolutley reject the notion that sexual intercourse can’t be avoided for a short period of time. If the OP’s husband was willing to divorce, it would go through pretty quickly.
I appreciate you don’t advocate affairs. Few do. But referring to it as “shit happens” pisses in the face of the asshole’s innocent kids. I may be a little reactionary here, but I know what it feels like. And that was more than 20 years ago. It certainly wasn’t the best thing to happen in my parent’s case.
Well, I honestly don’t see how I’ve been “glib and almost flippant” but if so, that hasn’t been my intention at all. If you believe I’m not telling the truth, I suppose therein lies the problem. I did not say I was trustworthy. As a matter of fact, I feel this proves to everyone that I don’t know if I could ever be again. I don’t know if I’ve said this or not, but my husband will be better off without me and I definitely want his best interests above my own. Despite whether you believe that or not. He really is the most wonderful human being I’ve ever know, who could easily give Mother Theresa a run for her money. It was my fault, long before this, that our marriage cratered and my inability to fix that that was the ultimate demise. And I mean that. What I ended up in was just the catalyst to actually do something that my husband would never dream of doing on his own… get my sorry ass out. He would’ve of stuck by me regardless of any situation and still offers that, amazing though it is. I can’t do it though. He deserves so much better, so much less stress and an opportunity to have a rewarding life. Not the hell I’ve put him through.
And by all means, please don’t waste anymore time on this. If it doesn’t shed any enlightenment to the participants, than it is unworthy. Last of all, I can certainly see how no one would entrust me to even tell the correct time, so your last statement is understood.
Oh, and furthermore, just in case this also comes up, I am in therapy and have been for almost 6+ weeks. Initially it was to discuss all my previous problems/illness and how to get past them. Now will be how to ever not feel like a sleeze, move towards acceptance (because I’m sure I’ll never forgive myself) and being able to be a functioning, contributing member of society. I’m not very optimistic, but I shall continue with all the effort I have.
faithfool, I don’t remember this being covered but it may be important to the discussion.
Did you have the affair in order to cause the divorce? What I mean is, did you expressly act in a way to give your husband no choice but to leave you? I can see that happening if you wanted to give finality to the failed marriage, while giving him an “out” on any guilt. It sounds like you’re trying to protect his feelings about the breakup. Though, sleeping with another man isn’t exactly the nicest way of doing it, but I’ll let that go.
What I’m still waiting for is an answer to other poster’s questions (as well as mine) about how this has affected dipshit’s wife and his kids.
Thank you Bricker for your kindness. I certainly need it today.
I knew this would be hard and I did anticipate backlash, but thought it a good idea if it prevent or stalled any other kinds of crap like this. Maybe I’m too naive, but that was my motivation.
Yes, for a bit. After my most recent suicide attempt (late April), we agreed to move our ‘get together’ date from August 1st to July 1st. That was the beginning of the trend and his excuse was then was that his wife had sent his daughter away for the holiday weekend. He offered to go ahead anyway, but I said that it wasn’t fair to him or her to not have that conversation in person. So, I didn’t mind the extra couple of days of waiting. It seemed only right. After that, he said it would be the Tuesday after July 4th, but told me off-handedly that if you don’t completely work the day before a holiday -and- the one after, you don’t get paid for the holiday. Well, seeing as he was going to at least need to take off part of that Tuesday and we’d need as much money as possible, that didn’t appear viable. Also, he rides to work with his bestfriend and since he ‘forgot’ to inform him of their need for separate vehicles that day, I didn’t feel said fellow should have to suffer for us.
So, one more day it was to be. On the 6th, he showed up in tears saying “he just couldn’t leave his babies”. I consoled him the best I could, inquired to whether this meant we were permanently over or if he needed another extension. He went into lengthy detail about his first father/son camp out with his son’s Cub Scout troop at the end of the month. Once more, I accepted that would be good for both and that if I were in the same position, would want as much time with my children before parting as possible.
The day his wife found out, he came to “our” apartment to say he was there and we were to be together for all time. He called from “our” phone (which was in his name and showed up on their caller ID as such) to tell her he was coming for his stuff. Later, he returned and stayed the night and most of the rest of the day until it was time to pick the kids up from the babysitter. All along the way, I got reassurances that he loved me, we were soulmates and destiny brought us back together, the only thing that could ever keep us apart would be me (more on that later) and that he’d be “home” as soon as she got off work. In the interim, he called several times on my cell to reinforce the above and once from his house. Then to tell me it looked like it would be around 8:00.
The last phone call was to tell me it was never going to happen, that he’d been trying to break it off forever but I’d held hostage with my enormous amount of problems (although my great lack of self-esteem had me constantly asking him on a daily basis if he wanted out), that he’d never ‘officially’ proposed (that’ll take some further explanation as well) and not only could he not handle said problems, but didn’t want to.
Our few conversations since then have consisted verily of telling me that he was trying to be extra mean so I’d run far away from him, that he was just covering his own butt, that most of what was said was for her benefit and that he didn’t want to hurt her. I think that about covers all of the trajectory of what you were looking for. If not, please let me know and I’ll try harder.
I feel for you. I also feel for my son. His father cheated on me throughout my pregnancy and at every turn thereafter. But, although the kids’ feelings are important in these situations, they are not the only consideration. Sometimes it’s better to have some pain now than to put them through worse later. Many children of divorce are *glad * their parents split up. No one likes it to get ugly, but it happens. My ex let my son down in much worse ways than screwing around on me. I shudder to think what it would have been like to stay in that relationship. I tried harder than I’ve ever worked at anything (we weren’t married, so it wasn’t even a matter of divorce). It simply wasn’t meant to be.
Ah, if there’s anything I’ve learned from this pathetic trainwreck that is my life is to “never say never.” You’d have thought I’d have gotten that by now, not exactly being a spring chicken and all, but apparently not, considering the awful circumstances I put everyone in. I deserve them. Sadly, my husband did not. Nor was I ever worthy of him. That’s not self-pitying, it’s a truth borne out of my terrible judgment and actions.
Also, just to address this… I’m trying my best to go in order, as in-depth as possible. So, please be as patient as you can muster. I can type extremely slowly when I’m in befuddled mode. Sorry for any delays.
First of all, faithfool I don’t see your answers as glib and self-serving. Reading your responses to the questions I see someone trying to understand and deal with the results of bad choices; poor judgement…and hoping at the same time to enlighten others who might already be there or heading there. Pretty brave post, I think.
That being said, I also agree that it “ups the ante”, if you will, of the price of poor judgement adults use when young children are involved. To me that includes deciding to stay in a bad marriage for the sake of the children…not to be confused with working like hell to make a struggling marriage better for the sake of the children.
Enough pain here to go around it appears. I wish you well and hope this “laying it all out” helps you.
My question: Do you have a sense of how his children are faring?
Are you certain it’s over? Can you imagine any circumstance where you would resume the affair? It’s not uncommon for these types of relationships to go through cycle after cycle. What will you do if Ted come sniffing around again in a few months after his wife cools down?
We never realized, until much later, that we were both thinking different things on different levels. He that I understood his sarcasm, since no obvious need to explain further about whether or not that constituted an actual affair including intimacy. I that believed, after quite a while, that he was serious and deluded myself into never thinking it would go any further. But, when I fell ‘in love’ (what a joke) with him and his apparent nobility to his children, sex wasn’t too far off and by then, we’d planned our “future.” But I did feel guilty that his wife did not know. My husband, OTOH, knew the minute I felt positive of that ‘in love’ thing, long before sex was introduced into the equation. I hope that makes sense.
Yes, we both pledged fidelity. He kept his promise and I, ultimately, did not, no matter what I believed to be our understanding. And also yes, I accepted that it meant I wasn’t to see/date/or sleep with anyone else but said partner. Forever, until the time frame explained (I hope), that was the fartherest thing from my mind in any conceivable way.
Well, my husband refused my repeated offers of divorce because of the “serious psychosis” that I’d previously mentioned. I’d be more than happy to discuss them in full, but I didn’t want anyone to think I was trotting them out so someone would feel sorry for me. Let’s just say that it was really, really bad and he didn’t want to leave me stranded under those conditions. I hoped he would, because he didn’t deserve what I was putting him through long before the affair. I do know the effects of cheating and that it was wrong. However, you’ve seemed to miss the part where I’ve explicitly stated that my husband knew in advance. Even before the emotional involvement, which prompted him to tell me that once I knew I was ‘in love’, the end for us was imminent.
I do appreciate the lack of slamming and wasn’t expecting any sympathy whatsoever. I had never planned on having children at any rate due to my lack of solving my intensive mental problems. I concur whole-heartedly about what I’ve put everyone else through and if there was any way I could undo it, or turn back the clock, I’d have never sent that email. No matter what.
Again, yes, I knew it was wrong. No, I did not (to paraphrase) “not love my husband.” I did, and do, with every ounce of my being. However, and I’ll repeat this until it’s as understood as well as can be, I felt he no longer loved me and only stayed out of obligation, duty and a sense of responsibility. Doesn’t condone my actions, but it also doesn’t mean I didn’t love him more than I’ve ever loved anyone else. Also, I wished for no “security” at home. I left as soon as I could sell off everything I owned and took an apartment with no visible means of support and a belief that I would overcome anything (including his myriad of issues, which were profuse and extreme) for our “love”. :rolleyes: And, this was the least “fun” thing I’ve ever encountered in my life, not even mental illness compares. I agree it was selfish and I know not else what to say other than that.
I am, to the best of my ability. I’ll be house-sitting (or did I mention that already? – gah, I can’t keep up and I think I’m probably reiterating enough to sound senile) for up to six months and trying to find a job that I can hold down without necessitating another psych hospital stay. I have apologized profusely to his wife, although, rightly enough, she didn’t believe (nor will she probably ever, as again, she undoubtedly shouldn’t) me. I am sorry to her though, and the children. Actually to everyone. But I believe I’ve mentioned that to a nauseating degree. So much that it’s beginning to sound fake to me.
No disagreement there, but I will say that his family is by far the most dysfunctional group I’ve ever seen. They are the ones who helped to run interference (along with his friends and co-workers) between the two of us to keep it a secret from his wife. The reasoning, according to them, was that she was an abuse bitch that deserved whatever she got and it was about damn well time he had some happiness. Who knows? I know now he’s a pathological liar and everyone surrounding him (except for his children and potentially his wife, since I don’t know the complete and real story for sure there), gives the Manson family a run for their money. Actually, they may pale in comparison. But these days, I think I’m biased.
Well, due to all of my mental issues, I’d pushed away most of my friends so they wouldn’t have to deal with them too. The one I had left was pretty much as screwed-up mentally as I, so she was just glad to see me (seemingly) happy. Sadly, she wasn’t much on fidelity herself, so perhaps that played a part in her reactions. Later on, she changed her tune though and declared she’d known all along he was an asshole. Cest la vie. My on-line friends disapproved, accept for one. Again, I’m assuming, from facing a lot of the same mental crap, but I’m not sure. We hadn’t been close for long, so she simply might be the type to agree rather than voice dissent.
I wouldn’t mind it applied to me at all. I don’t know if it accurately fits his situation, since they are staying together. And as for mine, we needed to split anyway, so I don’t feel what happened is to blame. Simply me being too gutless to refuse to stay in it despite his protestations. Furthermore, Ted said that he was planning on leaving anyway, that their marriage was over before it began and he was solely waiting on his daughter’s 12th birthday. Why I bought that, I have no idea. But I did and I’m all the more sorry for being so stupid, gullible and wanting to desperately believe in some sort of fairytale hope that I was worth loving and maybe I was fixable (mentally). Both turned out to be a cruel joke inflicted on everyone else.
A lot, a whole lot. More than I’ll ever absolve myself for. I’m sure I’ve shattered whatever self-esteem she had after recovering from the last affair she knew he had. The children (or actually it was just his daughter then) were too young to know about that one, so they escaped it’s devastation. I feel completely responsible for what’s happened to them. Also, the duplicity involved with her suspecting, him lying to cover us up and then finding out to the contrary. That had to be the worst part. He takes some responsibility for doing this repeatedly though and I doubt the two we all know of were the only ones. Just those confirmed. But I should have said no to him, so does that make it a wash and me still shielding him? I don’t know or if I ever will.
All I have to say to this is thank you and that I’m trying to be honest (yes, I realize the inherit irony in that statement). I truly have no problem with being pitted, as stated in the OP. Feel free to do as one must. I understand.
I don’t know if I’d feel better if this were the cause or not, but I’ve already mentioned that my marriage was dead long before Ted came along. This was nothing but the final nail in the coffin. But thank you for pointing that out calm kiwi. Sometimes it’s hard to remember where all my shit began and exactly how all I “wrecked” it to begin with.
Just a question to the dopers. A lot of wickedness of the affair is being attributed to the fact that there were children involved. What would be the opinion if the man had grown up children? By grown up I mean children who were in college and old enough or near adults. Would it still be as evil or would that deserve some amount of pardon?
And I agree with Kalhoun. These things just happen, especially when the existing relationships are dead. Some people do not have the courage to go for a divorce and continue living in a dead relationship only because there is no real impetus. For them, dragging life despite a failed and insolvent relationship is more preferable than an intimidating divorce. In such cases an affair acts as a trigger providing an opportunity to start living again. Just my view.
I appreciate your answering most of that for me (and you’re dead on about not advocating unfaithfulness). I don’t think that made our “promise null and void”, but I do feel it helped to push my insane ass (the believing my husband ‘didn’t love me anymore and that I was mentally broken’ part) over the edge. And I don’t mean the affair. I mean the multiple suicide attempts, etc.
Lastly, our marriage wasn’t just “dying,” it was dead. We hadn’t been intimate in probably a year (or close to it), we did nothing but mostly have fights about me pretty much giving up (which was true) and spent all our time together with him watching TV and I on the computer. He hated me, I hated me and I disliked him. I just wanted to die. Much like Sissy Spacek in 'Night Mother. This was one out-of-control merry-go-round and I just wanted off. Hell seemed like a better alternative.
It’s possible I was the one who wasn’t clear enough. Let me try again… I wasn’t “looking for a backup before ending the [my marriage] first.” I just wanted an emotional connection on a deeper level, as a friend. Hell, I think I could have found that with a fence post, a cow or a female (although I’ve never been attracted to one in my life). That’s all. No more, no less. Again, my husband knew from the first email and EVERY. STEP. IN. BETWEEN. My shame lies in duping his wife. I begged for that to be the case, but see previous remarks about his children and plan, et. al.
If that still doesn’t cover it or sounds unplausible, say so.