(Kalhoun, if we ever meet, I’ll buy you a drink.) 
faithfool, thank you for the honest reply to my post. I can’t say you’re blameless, but I also don’t view you as a slut-whoring homewrecker. Anymore, anyway. 
Good luck to you and all involved. And get better soon! It sounds like there’s nowhere to go but up from where you are. (Though I’m keeping you on double secret probation for all dates for 6 months) 
Crap, if I’d only read ahead. Kalhoun is saying what I thought we both felt. Now, apparently, I should have forced the issue with my husband and told him his honor over looking out for me was pointless. I also shouldn’t have took anything on with Ted until he extracted himself from his situation either. But, and this is no excuse, for me I was too far gone by the time it turned physical. And I’m reasonably sure she was his “backup” though.
Also, this has proved to be incredibly telling… “Sometimes it’s the best thing that ever happened to a dying relationship.” My husband has always been my bestfriend except when I was killing it. Now that we’re over as a couple that’s renewed with an incredible vigor. We want to see each other every single day, we talk on the phone constantly, wish to hang out/do stuff and in the future, live near one another. I’m so grateful for that. Without something (because we were both too co-dependent) making it end, that couldn’t have ever gone back to the way it should have remained. Like us never meaning to be married in the first place. (See Catch-22 reference somewhere a million miles above.)
Since Ferret Herder quoted the same line Kalhoun did (about having a “backup” – in case these get out of order), I’ll spare y’all the duplication. But everything is true. At that point, my agoraphobia was so bad, I wouldn’t step out on to my porch, I might bathe once every couple of weeks whether I needed to or not, I went NOWHERE without my husband (and even then, I skipped important functions – like weddings or funerals [what a :wally I was] and desired fun things or stuff I’d love to do like plays or amusement parks) and it was a major chore just to clean out the kitty litter, which could end up being my only task for the day.
He knew all this and that the only place I could return to was my mother, which he certainly felt would seal my fate with me hanging from a tree somewhere. Trust me, if anyone is curious, you could do a search on at least one Pit-worthy thread devoted entirely to her. I, OTOH, felt like I couldn’t do that to him, as goofy as that sounds and even though I’d tried. All the women in his life had been insane (to say the least)… all the way back to his Grandmother, Mom, first serious girlfriend, ex-wife and her mother, to me and my mother. I just thought it would make him feel like he was the failure and not simply a poor soul who attracts psycho females. And, he’d given everything up for me, lost it all and I would’ve been leaving him in his worst state ever, the most horrible imaginable. So, although I needed to do it, I was chickenshit, too co-dependent and unhealthy to take the plunge.
I often preferred suicide over him going through any more pain. Mostly what stopped when I was more rational was him finding me and dealing with the aftermath and visual the rest of his life. Plus, feeling responsible, that he could’ve done more or should have saved me or known that then would’ve been the moment. It was all way fucked up.
Likewise! 
I’ll start quoting this post from below because I believe that neither Phlosphr nor Kalhoun need my help in discussing these views amongst themselves. It’s apparent that I couldn’t help myself before all this mess began, I have no desire to fool myself into thinking I could help others in any way except to tell my story.
Now since that was addressed in part to me, I’ll quote Phlosphr again so it won’t get anymore confusing than it already is. And I do see where you are coming from and that’s how it should be.
[QUOTE=Phlosphr]
As for Faithfool - simply by what I have said above I’m sure you understand where I stand. So my question is this:
Why did you not end it when the discussion of having an ‘open’ relationship was discussed? Were you that void of emotion or forethought that you couldn’t see what was truly happening?
[QUOTE]
There’s multiple reasons for that. Some have already been covered repeatedly (which I realize you didn’t know way back when you asked this question… but to recap: 1.) I was unbelievably naive (and yes, I’ve been accused of that MANY times in my life). 2.) I was only looking for an emotional connection, blah, blah, blah. 3.) Yes, my emotions were pretty devoid at that point. I was worthless, a non-contributing member of my household, causing much grief to the person I loved most who I thought no longer loved me and I just wanted it all to stop. If no friendship appeared on the horizon, definite suicide was the only backup plan I had. This time for real, right down to buying the Depends so that when I soiled myself, no one whould have to clean up after me. And last of all 4.) I hoped that my husband would take me up on the offer. Yeah, that sound unbelievably altruistic, but I swear (for whatever that’s worth) that it was true. Much like those Lifetime movies where the dying wife seeks out the next best possible partner for his mate, I wanted him to be happy in any way he could. And since he didn’t want to divorce, seeing someone else and leaving the vegetable (essentially) at home to her own devices seemed like a good idea at the time.
The whole truth is because I wanted desperately to believe. That the momentum I’d gained from seeing him (there were stipulations involved – I had to go back to a psychiatrist, I had to find medications that worked and stick with them, I had to have regular therapy, I HAD to get out of the house daily and take care of my own business, no matter how difficult), I didn’t want to lose like I had a couple of times in the past when I’d seemingly lucked into ‘wellness’. Which was a whole 'nother Pit thread about the ineptness of psych hospitals. But there you go, I held on for hopes that this was my chance finally, the last one, despite whether or not he and I stayed together (and I had already started seeing those “red flags”, I just chose to ignore them because I refused not to keep my word) and that I could make it. If anyone could see the fall since then, I hope there’d be some understanding. However, I’m not giving up and for the on most days, I keep working on it.
[QUOTE}nally, did you not think about his children? I know it takes two to tango, but why did you not think about the futures of his kids and not your own selfishness?[/QUOTE]
Actually, I thought about his children on a daily basis because I was led to believe, whether we ended up together or not, that she was both physically and emotionally abusive. He intentionally let me constantly overhear their fights (while I’d be on their home phone and he on his cell) and tell me the utter hell she put them through for his infractions. Stupidly, I fell for that and thought his saying that he was “running interference/saving them as much of her ire as humanely possible” until he left, was us looking out for their best interest.
Also, growing up in a similar household where World War III was common and begged for divorce for my parents, I truly thought a normal life (via the witness of the ‘love’ inherent in our future marriage [what an idiot I was] would only help them to not repeat an unhealthy cycle and show them how life can be not a bad thing. I did find out that there weren’t dysfunctional families until I was 18 and yet it still took me some dozen or more years to work through it and not emulate their (my parents) bad behavior. I followed their, especially my mother’s, party line quite well. Only in the past year, has that been another thing that has changed for the positive despite all the negativity of the rest. I am, for the first time ever, an adult where she’s involved. Imagine that.
And I really wasn’t trying to behave selfishly. I see now how delusional and self-serving that was. I can never repay the penitence I should for that.
I see someone else has weighed in on Sisyphus’ Stone’s final post. Let me say here that I bear s/he no ill will. I expected some of this, so it’s perfectly ok for those who feel the need to display their displeasure.
Now on to the next…
I wish that would be the case for us, but we truly, honest to God, are better off as friends. It was never meant to be, unless it was solely for the purpose of cementing said friendship. I have no idea what will happen for Ted, but knowing him, his immediate circle, his past now and what all he’s willing to do to keep it up (he’s already offered me a chance, within days of the breakup, for us to get back together, but merely be “more careful” until he’s gone), I’m pretty skeptical.
However, I’m not so hot with the hedge-trimming anyway. I’d probably muck it up to look like weasel. Self-portrait and all. 
Dammit, in my tiredness I forgot to break up the quotes/questions from the answers. Sorry to all those reading.
::: sigh :::
I apologize for being so slow with the responses. I’m undoubtedly covering the same stuff over and over again from much later in the thread, but I wanted to do it this way so I wouldn’t miss anyone. So, if there is repetition, please just ignore it.
Well, in answer to that part, he wasn’t willing to wait. Again, I should have held off, but I wasn’t exactly thinking the clearest I ever have and I bear all the responsibility for that. He said almost a year wouldn’t be long for his daughter to turn 12, thereby allowing her to choose which parent she wanted to live with (and he 100% percent believed it would be him – which, over time, I found out to be no where near the truth) and since he’d be it, the judge wouldn’t dare split up her and her brother and ::: tada ::: we’d get custody. Yeah, that’s the naive/stupid part of my personality I keep telling everyone about.
If it matters, I held out for four months after being celibate for, I guess, well over a year and half at that point. And he’d asked me to marry him, bought the engagement ring and everything (I know how fucked up that is) and kept insisting that if we were truly “The Love of Each Other’s Lives!” what was the point of waiting? Know one would ever have to know and he needed me because he wasn’t fulfilled either. Pressure, pressure, pressure. Plus, to tell the truth, I craved physical interaction. I’d only been with two people in my life and I finally felt I couldn’t wait any longer. Therefore, I was a bigger dumbass than I previously had been. Without the sex, I’m sure it would’ve faded away quickly (since I think it initially started out for him as just a conquest – to finally nail the little Christian girl from high school and get her to do all sorts of things – hell, she even held out until she was 24 before losing her virginity, has never cheated despite her situation, so I must be all that!). I wish I could have seen that and at least one of his friends and his sister tried to warn me. But I was in ‘love, love, love.’
But he swore up and down, that from his end, it would drag on forever and she’d threaten to kill the kids and he didn’t put it past her and the moon was in the summer house. It was ridiculous nonsense, but I fell for it just the same. Someday, I plan on taking a course on “How to Defeat Having SUCKER Tattooed on Your Forehead and Not Buy the Golden Gate Bridge, Again,” multiple times if necessary.
You are absolutely right because I went through that too. And had prayed for their divorce, but because of the daily screaming and throwing things and taking it out on me. This all happened pre- and post- affair, so that part effected me not one whit. And no, I don’t think this was a case of “shit happens.” It was the most heinous thing I’ve ever done and again, I’d have much rather been dead than to have done it after all.
Partly, but not from the beginning. Like I said, I thought an attachment to someone would be harmless, even after my husband professed that he felt Ted’s actions weren’t pure. Then we went through the whole “if you decide you love him” business and that’s when I think it became part of it. At least subconsciously, if nothing else. I didn’t ever want him to feel guilty for anything that had gone on… my illness and problems, our bankruptcy, lack of intimacy, all of it. Solely me. But we again are in agreement that I botched the way to handle it. For many different reasons.
I really don’t completely know. He told me that he told her (God, that’s confusing) that I was threaten suicide every time he tried to break it off, which had been forever. Basically, I was stalking him and doing nothing more than stroking his ego. I told her on the phone that last night, that although I had a host of mental problems, I’d never used the suicide against him. Which was true. Now, we’d both do the “we’re better off without each other” speech and the requisite “I can’t live without you!” from me and “If you try to leave, I’ll have to just hunt you back down and kill you if necessary to keep us together forever.” from him. Furthermore, he denied the proposals and the ring. I explained to her, which later he said he did too (yeah, right), that what I’d been given repeatedly were “informal” proposals, until we could do the real thing the day he moved out.
So what little I know (and if it’s the truth) is that she didn’t kick him out, he still has his cell phone with the same number, he’s allowed to roam around freely all day while she’s at work (he’s now off on worker’s comp) and they’re back to sleeping together. As far as the kids go, when I did talk to him on the phone, they sounded fine in the background and it could be that they never knew any of it even happened. Nor will I ever. If they are permanently scarred, I’ll take whichever level of hell is best appropriate for that. I still can’t believe I did it.
Well, I appreciate you being so understanding. As I said in my last post (I think), we had cheating in my parents’ relationship as well and like you, is was everything else that made it intolerable. I told him that repeatedly towards the end, that even if we ended up apart, he needed to do the difficult thing and get out of there for their sake. If it’s that bad now, I can’t imagine what it’ll be like once you teenage hormones into the mix and probably, another affair or four on his part. And again, I wish mine had split. I bet that someday, he’ll find out that his will have too.
Oh God, that sentiment has made my day. Thank you, thank you, thank you. But the braveness, I’m not so sure of. :dubious:
All I can do to this is agree. Everyone now knows I’ve been there, Ted wished the same thing from his parents and Kalhoun has also offered an example. In his case, I think it’s just a cop-out to have someone else support him, do all the hard work and never have to be responsible for anything while he runs around and plays (martyr too – he’s really good at that). Not to mention, he has a whole network in place of folks that would probably assassinate someone on his behalf if he told them to. Very scary indeed. How I ever got hooked up with such a loser in the first place will forever be a mystery to me.
Thank you again. It does seem to be helping a bit, although it’s all still extremely painful and no matter how bad he was for me, or would have been, my moods swing wildly from wanting him castrated and tarred and feathered in the town square to having him tell me just one more time that “he loves me.” I hate it, but I’m assuming it will pass with time.
I wish I knew. He has one acquaintance at work who I’ve become quasi-friends with who could possibly update me. But he’s newly married and I don’t wish to intrude anymore on his life than I already have. However, I hope that maybe someday I’ll hear something positive and unlike the rest of his family, that the fruit hasn’t fallen far from the tree. That is my most fervent prayer these days.
It’s over. The amount of lying involved would be enough for me to “just say no” and, since he’s already offered, I think it’s a safe bet he should do his darnedest to stay as far away from me as possible. I should suggest China.
And, obviously, he wasn’t who I thought he was. I believed and trusted him despite my better judgment, went to bat for him against almost everyone and still, even at the very end, covered his lousy ass. I didn’t tell his wife how much money he’d blown on us (close to $2000), that everyone knew but her and helped him get away with it and lots and lots to do with sex. Because I didn’t want her to go through anymore than I’d already instigated and that he’d apparently been heaping on her for the past 20 years, with no end in sight.
I’d rather become a nun and if he was the last man on earth, I’d become really quite friendly with a banana. Or swim out into the ocean until I was too tired to ever swim back. So I’m sorry human race, we’d be done for if left up to he and I. I wouldn’t trust his genes anyway either.
I must admit, I love your username. Maybe some day I could get close to that.
In my case, nothing excuses what happened, not even me being as psychotic as the Son of Sam. Nor should that preclude whatever age children. However, a lot of people aren’t very good/strong enough/capable of ending things. I used to have a friend who would proudly proclaim her marriage status of two decades to anyone who would listen. Now, the part she didn’t say was that he was both physically, sexually and overwhelmingly emotionally abusive. The reason though that she was very proud was because she had been the only one in her large family not to divorce.
Didn’t matter that her kids ran away from home, one by one, as soon as they could. Or that anything would have been better than all that – I’d have chosen homelessness and dumpster diving over the monster that guy was. But she used that all like a badge of honor. I do understand some of her reasoning besides what I just stated… she thought no one else would ever have her or she’d ever do better. That she couldn’t support herself or her kids on her own. That it could always be worse. And although that’s not good enough either, I get it and felt sorry for all parties involved (perhaps even he had issues I just wasn’t aware of). So sometimes, it isn’t as clear cut as it seems. Just MHO.
I’ll graciously accept that I’ve moved up from “slut-whoring homewrecker.” I like to keep that one all to myself, especially in my dreams at night. I wonder if they’ll ever go away? And honestly was my goal, although someone in my position can’t exactly expect others to believe them or take them at face value. I’ll take my lumps with the territory.
Thank you so much and boy, do I hope you’re right. 'Course, every time I’ve thought that, I’ve been wrong, but I digress (not to mention, that’s happened to be an inordinate amount lately). As far as that probationary period goes… you could sign me up for the next several years and I can, at least at this moment, swear that I’d not be in the least interested in a man. Well, unless it’s Johnny Depp or Kevin Bacon. AFTER their divorce.
See, I really do have it now. I promise it on the medications I’ll never be without for the rest of my days. Perrish the thought!
I so apologize for monopolizing IMHO. I promise to step away from the computer and let more interesting and thought-provoking discussions abound.
See? The SDMB is helping already!
And the whole slut-shoring homewrecker thing, well, hyperbole gets the better of me sometimes. What’s a guy to do? shrug
This had been one of the most interesting, thought provoking, openly honest, and eye-opening threads I’ve read.
I lived through a parental breakup where the cheater is still with the same person. 20 years later. Longer now than the original marriage.
I feel for you, for all the ups and downs you went and will go through. I hope this thread helps in your counseling. I also feel for the other family, I hope they can rebound too.
Does your therapist know about this thread? Did he recommend it? What will be his response if he doesn’t know? Will you tell him?
Ok, that brought an even bigger grin to my face. I think right now, that you’re one of my favorite Dopers (that is, as long as you’re not married! :eek: ) and I’m glad we’ve come to some sort of mutual understanding.
I’d buy you a drink as well as Kalhoun (and probably all the other participants if I could ever afford it), as long as it’s sufficiently fou-fou girlie.
Thank you so incredibly much. Been there, done that with the parental thing (or have I mentioned that ad nauseum?) and it destroyed more than it ever helped. I, too, hope I finally get some real help. It’s been quite the hellacious trip. I do wish the best for Ted’s family (even him too, no matter how much of the time I hate him) and maybe this time, he’ll change and understand how destructive all this is. I don’t know though.
No he doesn’t and it was purely my idea (Good? Bad? Everyone else can judge that for themselves.) based on the principles I’ve already stated. It has seemed to help today, keeping me focused and all. Which is one of the few weapons, if it’s still viable, against the agonizing other crap I face.
I’m not sure he’ll say anything but be supportive. He’s like that. Very constructive, positive and encourages much introspection. I really, really like him and think (for the first time in years) that seeing him will be beneficial for my health. And of course I’ll tell him. I tell him, just like my husband, everything. How else could I improve any?
Oh, and thanks again. That’s another one I really needed. You’re a good Doper.
Thanks for answering my questions, Faithfool.
I have long been interested in the amount of rancour the “homewrecker” receives in society. The woman often appears to be the target of more venom than the married guy, whether he goes back to the original wife or not.
I hope you are able to learn from this and use those lessons in your future, so the pain caused to all at least has some positive aftermath. All the best to you.