Ditto. Oddly, I don’t believe an actual “person of color” has ever made this assumption, or if they have they’ve never mentioned it to me. It’s only been white Northerners.
I’ve told this story before, but shortly after moving Up Nawth when I was a teenager my new history teacher actually singled me out in class during a lecture about the Civil War. She’s been going on about how the South to this day was still more racist than the North, then turned to me and said, “Lamia, you’re from Southern State X.”
“Actually, I’m from Southern State Y.”
“That was part of the Confederacy too. Why don’t you tell us about racism there?”
“Well ma’am, I don’t know about it being more racist than here. I do know I never had any all-white classes there.”
Yes, the woman actually wanted me to denounce the racism of the South while sitting in a completely white classroom. Although it’s not really surprising that the classroom would be all white, as the population of that particular Northern state is about 90% white. (The city I lived in was more diverse, but not a lot – about 85% white.) I guess it’s pretty easy to avoid racial problems when practically everyone around you is the same race.
Evil Ex Roommate shaved his head and wore army surplus, and he was approached on at least one occasion by neo-Nazis. What made it funny was that he was a mentally ill bisexual socialist Ashkenazi Jew of Roma descent. If he had been in Nazi Germany he would have had every triangle except Jehovah’s Witness and antisocial woman.
I think she was inarticulately claiming economic discrimination on the part of the bankruptcy court for forcing her to go through such an expensive process. I.E., you weren’t the subject of her ire, you just had to witness it because you revealed to her the price.
You got somthing against Oompa Loompas? I bet when you see a nightmarish, day-glo-orange dwarf, you automatically hide whatever candy you’re carrying.
You confectionist!
On a serious note, I’m a white male of southern descent although I grew up in the D.C. suburbs. A very liberal, very diverse place. I’m glad about the diversity because I think it allowed me to have experiences that I would not have gotten in more monocultural areas. However, I had a real chip on my shoulder with the more over-the-top aspects of a liberal school system. No one ever accused me of rascism personally, but there was a certain onus to being “The Man.” It was never overt or explicit, but there was a definite bias against white males. We had a lot of lessons about sensitivity and political correctness. Every time there had to be an example of rascism or prejudiced behavior, it was always being perpetrated by an older white guy. The victims were diverse, however. The underlying lesson in all the examples was that white males hate everyone. I think part of it was that you couldn’t have anyone else in the oppressor role without cries of “Racism!” by that particular group. Which is, perversely, prejudiced thinking.
I’ll let it go here. I’m so steamed about the Loompah bashing, it makes me want to break out the little white jumpsuit and orange face paint.
There was not a single black person in my high school. Not one.
“Oh, those nasty segregationist Yankees, acting all uppity and denouncing the Southerners as bigots!”
No… there just weren’t any black people. At all. In the town. It was a small high school… graduating class of 100. No blacks, no Hispanics, one person of Indian descent (country of India, not American Indian), no other minorities at all.
Well, now that I think about it, there was a girl whose mother was black and father was white, but we never really thought about her race. She was just Tiffany. Likewise, the Indian girl was just Jen.
Sure, it’s easier to avoid racial problems when almost everyone’s the same race, but the attitude that non-diverse Yankees have no right to hold an opinion on racism is almost as bad as the attitude that every single white Southerner is racist.
I suppose the quote is meant to be your idea of what I might think, which is strange as I took some pains to explain that the racial makeup of the community at large must have contributed to the fact that the class in question was lily white. It’s certainly no surprise that there would be no black students at a small school in a small town where no black people lived. I also wouldn’t expect to find a lot of black students at the local schools here in Japan.
However, the middle school classroom I described in my earlier post was not in an all-white town or even in an all-white school. There were noticeable numbers of black and Hispanic students in attendance. Well, noticeable in the hallways and in gym class. They were not in the same academic classses as nice white girls like me. Of course, there were still few enough of them that this may have been a statistical anomaly. If it was deliberate, it may have been a well-intentioned attempt to make them feel more comfortable rather than sticking one token dark-skinned kid in every class.
A high school in the same community did later come under fire for racial segregation, although the real reason why the remedial classes skewed so much darker than the average/advanced ones was likely more an issue of social class than race. One might of course wonder why the poorest kids in town were so much more likely to be black or Hispanic than white.
An interesting point that would perhaps be relevant if anyone had expressed such an attitude.
Everyone’s allowed to have an opinion on racism. What I do not think is acceptable is for a teacher to single out “the new girl in school”, a 13-year-old from a different region who’s already caught enough flack for talking funny, and order her to denounce said region as a racist backwater in front of the whole class. This situation takes on special irony when the whole class is wholly white.
I also do not think people in racially homogenous communities have any business patting themselves on the back for their lack of race-based conflict. You can’t be in conflict with something that isn’t there. “Some of my best friends are black” is a famously unsatisfying defense to accusations of racism, but “I don’t even know any black people!” is pretty weak too.
When I was seventeen, I attended the National Youth Theatre of Great Britain. I got on with everyone in my racially diverse class, except for one guy of Pakistani origin. He was a big-mouthed attention whore who never shut up about himself. After a few weeks of putting up with him, I finally snapped. I asked him please to take his problems elsewhere because I was bored of listening to him.
He shouted “you hate me because I’m black!” ( )
I replied quietly “no, I hate you because you’re a dickhead.”
Not long ago, I stopped to chat with some friends in the student union building. The conversation turned to a professor from Penn State-Altoona who had been fired for holding some rather unorthodox opinions, but who was rumored to have been fired for her sexuality. I made an offhand comment, something like, “well, this is Altoona”. I didn’t mean it as a slam against Altoonans as much as I meant it as a statement about the relative insularity of that city and its conservatism. A girl who was sitting at the table (and who is active with the gay-straight alliance) rolled her eyes at me and mumbled something about making generalizations.
I was in college and worked as the seater in a mid priced chain restaurant. The lunch crowd is in a hurry and I had to get people to their tables ASAP. They allowed smoking at that time so my questions were the typical, “How many in your party? Smoking or Non?”
At the end of the shift one day, my boss hands me a complaint form. Seems like I was seating all the black customers in non smoking (because they requested it) and all the white customers in the smoking section (because they requested it) One of the black parties complained that the dining was segregated. My manager, eager to avoid confrontation, gave them a free meal.
Now, like a good seater, naturally I wasn’t stupid enough to put non smoking customers right next to the smoking section when the restaurant wasn’t full.
I wish my manager had stuck up for me on this one. The black customers were perfectly free to sit in any part of the restaurant they wanted to and yet chose to make this a race issue.
In my experience dating, I have been approached by many men of different nationalities, races, religions, ages, etc…most of which I have refused. Yes I have been brought up in 95% white neighborhoods, basically no contact with other cultures. Although I am increasingly interested in learning about them as I get older, I am still not attracted to men of any but my race. It is not because I am racist, it is because I believe I would get along better with someone who has been brought up in similar circumstances.
Am I racist because I am not physically attracted to other races? I know I have brought up my children with absolutely no predjudices. We only discuss it when we are appalled by the injustices we see on television. Am I a racist because I brought up my children in a town that has only three or so families of a different culture? The one family in my neighborhood that was of a different race included a friend of my daughters. They moved out fairly quickly and I don’t know the reason.
My son and my daughter exclaimed to me the other day that they have never been around people from other cultures and wonder why. Should I intentionally move to a place that has a racially diverse population just to satisfy the racist integration?
Hold on a minute - what do you mean by race? Assuming you’re American, would you favour a white Frenchman over a black American? Surely you and the black American have more in common. What if the black American was raised in exactly the same circumstances as you? Would that prevent attraction?
I have to admit, I find this odd. I can’t speak for you, of course, but I have gone out with women from many different races and nationalities, and have ended up married to an Irish woman (I’m English), and for me at least it’s been great! If you like the person, I don’t feel that cultural or racial differences matter. The attitude strikes me as sheltered, at least.
You could go on vacation to a foreign country instead, maybe?
Example. What turns you on, doesn’t necessarily turn me on. Just as the homosexual debates the benefits of his sexuality, doesn’t do anything for a heterosexual. Just because the skin difference would make me feel awkward and uncomfortable. It could be because of my upbringing, but I am an extremely accepting person. I speak to people like they are just that…People. Is it prejudiced to not be turned on by someone who has long hair? It is a preference, not a prejudice.
I happen to be comfortable within my culture. A constant debate over who’s is better or right would irritate me because i don’t feel that any culture is “wrong” or “right”, just different. If you want to believe something I feel you have every right to believe in it. But I believe I should have that same right and deserve t live this way if I so choose. AND I don’t feel that I should be called racist if I am not physically or emotionally attracted to someone of a different persuasion.
It would be the dream of a lifetime for me. Unfotunately, as a single mother with a mortgage, I find it hard enough to afford to go for a three hour drive and rent a cottage for us for the weekend.
But that isn’t the justification you gave earlier:
The black American would have been brought up in more similar circumstances to you than someone who looks like you from France (or Germany, Ireland, Russia, Australia, etc.). In your second statement you indicate that you believe black people in America are necessarily culturally different to you. I think this an incorrect generalisation. Or if not, it would surely preclude you dating all but white people from your own city and social stratum.
I can’t of course, debate what turns you on or not, but I think your justification for a lack of attraction is somewhat inconsistent. And saying a skin color difference would make you “awkward and uncomfortable” does, to me, indicate some kind of prejudice, I’m afraid.
That’s a presupposition about a circumstance that simply has never occurred in my wide experience of dating outside my race and culture.
Conclusion: I think that not deliberately, or malevolently, you do appear to have some racial hang-ups.
Fair enough - I apologise if I was being something of a Marie Antoinette. Having said that, there are Native American reservations and ethnic ghettoes all over US where people of a very different culture to your own live, so it’s not out of the question.
I wasn’t necessarily trying to justify why I wouldn’t date a person of another race. I was trying to make a point that just because somene is brought up in a certain culture and prefers to date within that culture doesn’t make them racist. I contend that it is a valid defense. Until they prove it otherwise by acting or speaking racist remarks, how could they be proven otherwise?
I wouldn’t have sex with another woman, but I wouldn’t call it a hang up. I would just call it a sexual preference.
Prejudice is prejudice…whether it is race, gender, religion or sexual.
Maybe if I put it another way you might understand it…I am not physically attracted to men shorter than me. But my friend is…so when we go out we split the room in two groups. Hers and mine. I get the top half and she gets the lower.
My partner is from Mississippi, and he came up to Virginia to go to grad school. Things were going well his first year (this is long before he met me), he was doing well in his classes, making friends. Then slowly, people stopped speaking to him, or would just kind of glare at him, stop talking when he came into the room, etc. It left him puzzled and hurt.
Finally another student, who had become a good friend, said that people were saying he was anti Semetic, based solely on the comments of this one girl. I don’t know where she was from – I think it’s solely a coincidence this took place in Virginia – but when my partner, who has never said anything anti-Semetic in all the years I’ve known him (& he’s got Jewish relatives and in-laws), confronted her, she said, earnestly, but ‘everyone’ knows people from Mississippi hate Jews.
:smack:
Her one comment nearly ruined his reputation at grad school, and his advisor had to intervene to get this girl to apologise, and to admit her comments were completely unfounded. But he says the rest of the time he was there, it would surface, and it really upset him.
Then there was the time I was living in an adults-only apartment block, and to get to my door one had to walk up a wooden staircase, across a wooden walkway that connected 2 buildings, and down a small wooden porch to my flat. One day I was working and could here a lot of shouting, thudding, just strange noise, and when I looked out, there were twol children I’d never seen before running up and down the stairs and jumping on the walkway.
They were about 9 or 10 years old, two boys, and they happened to be black. The only thing that bugged me was the noise; since everything was made of wood, their activity was making the whole building shake.
I asked them, ‘Could you guys go play somewhere else?’ and I promise you, I didn’t shout or say it in a mean way, just matter of fact and friendly.
The one little boy looks at me, and shouted, ‘Did you just call me a xxxxxx’
I was stunned – there were other people outside, and it was like everyone froze. I had spoken quietly, and this boy had shouted, so of course he was heard.
But I replied, quietly, ‘No, I did not call you any names. I asked you please to go play somewhere else because you are making a lot of noise.’
They went off, shouting stuff at me; I felt absolutely terrible, because all the neighbours were giving me dirty looks…It makes me wonder what in the heck kind of atmosphere was he living in, where he would shout that at someone.
I was working at a candy store a few years ago, and it was one of those places where you fill up a little bag with candy from these plastic bins on the wall, then pay by weight.
The kiosk was in the middle of a busy department store, so we always had to watch our bins and make sure nobody was stealing or putting their dirty hands in the bins. Making this more complicated was the fact that our counter was way off to one side, so sometimes people weren’t sure where to pay, and walked off with bags of candy, trying to find a cash. We’d steer them back the right way.
One day, I saw a woman with a bag of candy walking the wrong way, apparently looking for the cash. So I walked up to her with a smile and gave her the usual “The cash is just over this way, let me show you”. She took a step back, put her hands on her hips, and said “You thought I was stealing, didn’t you.”
“Not at all, our cash is just not very obvious, and people go the wrong way all the time.” (Still smiling, darn it, I’m well-trained!)
“You thought I was going to steal this because I’m BLACK. You wouldnt have stopped a white girl! Just because I’m BLACK I’m not going to pay? How DARE you stop me, you RACIST bitch!”
At this point the whole area had gone silent and a ring of shoppers gathered to watch the drama. My eyes were as big as saucers and I was shaking like a leaf - how do you respond to someone screaming at you like that?
But then, around the corner of the wall of candy bins came my three wonderful co-workers and my manager, superheroes in their red candy-store aprons. Four beautiful black women who came to stand behind me and stare the shouter down until she tossed her candy bag onto a shelf and walked away.
For a while, my dad had a giant red Dodge Ram that he was holding onto while the owner was in Malta. It just so happened to have Utah plates, 'cuz the guy that owned it previously had it registered in Utah. I got to drive it around (even though it got six inches to the gallon). One day, while in the Jack-in-the-Box parking lot on Vanowen and DeSoto, I drove by a woman in a little Civic, with the windows down. She saw the license plates, and screamed:
“Utah plates?!? You racist motherfucker!”
It took me about half a minute to realize that she was talking about me. I thought it was awesome.
)