Why is it a waste for an investigator to figure out his alignment? That’s what investigators are for. Is it because he’ll die soon? 1) We could all die soon, so is it worth investigating any of us? 2) He doesn’t have the book anymore, so he’s not going to die soon. 3) There’s no clear definition of when “soon” is, in any case.
NAF is the sole source of our info about the Book, and as such has had a pretty big influence on the game so far. It’s quite important that we find out whether we can trust his information, and his play. There are three ways to do this:
Lynch. Apparently this would be a waste although I don’t see how it would be more so than any other lynch, provided we’re voting on the basis of who we think is Scum.
A Vig could kill him. Assuming we have a Vig. Assuming NAF won’t be protected in some way. Assuming Scum don’t have a Watcher who could learn the identity of the Vig if they knew his target.
An investigator could investigate him. Assuming we have such an investigator. They could then announce, at a time chosen by them, what NAF’s alignment was. This has the added bonus that if he’s Town, we don’t waste a lynch or a Vig kill. And in fact, if he’s Scum, we wouldn’t be wasting a lynch either.
So, again, why is it such a waste for NAF to be investigated?
While the last 24 hours have certainly been entertaining for me, I think it’s time for a public announcement. To wit:
There are no secret actions in this game. If at any given time during the game, it is possible to do a thing, you will know it. The Necronomicon is no longer on its public pedestal and therefore cannot be taken from its public pedestal. Its location and the means by which it may change location is known definitively to everyone who needs to know (which might be no one). **
While all this conversation is no doubt illuminating to those who have the time to actually read it, I have something additional to add:
Having asked for and gotten clarification from Storyteller, I can say definitively that Chipacabra died last night protecting me. Make of that what you will. At this point I have no intentions of revealing anything more about my role. However, it does provide additional lines of inquiry for the day: namely, the question of why I was attacked. I had voted for OneandonlyWanderers and Drain Bead in addition to my day-ending vote on Telcontar. I had also expressed suspicion of Mrs McGinty. (And I had somewhat defended NAF and Oy.) While it’s always possible I was attacked for some other reasons, the question of who stands to benefit does interest me, and I think it should count as a small mark against each of those four.
My vote on Telcontar has carried over, and for now it will remain there. (As mentioned, though, I have no remotely caught up.)
NAF didn’t state that he’d lost the Book until Post #1177, which was just under twenty-four hours later.
The thing of it is, I didn’t think NAF knew until he told us. So how would peeker know twenty-four hours earlier, and think that info came from NAF.
So either both NAF and peeker are Scum, or peeker was truly hallucinating. Which is not beyond the realm of possibility; I would find his posting style far more understandable if it were coming from someone under the influence.
Normal Phase, how did you know to ask storyteller this? Did you get some indication that you were attacked?
First off, I apologize. I read pretty much everything from Dusk to Dawn in one fell swoop on my phone and got the timing of NAF’s claim confused–I thought he claimed the book info just after Dawn rather than just after Dusk. So it’s doubtful that an investigator targeted him last Night…which means my suggestion of investigating him if he’s not lynched isn’t tying a Cop up at all!
I obviously think he should be lynched (and if he is Scum, it’s likely peeker is too, based on him knowing that NAF no longer had the book before it was mentioned in the game thread), but if not I prefer an investigation to a vigging, for multiple reasons.
We might not have a Vig.
NAF may be a Scum Strongman, or the Scum may have a doctor.
I have misread nothing. Yesterday Idle didn’t trust NAF based on his wanting to keep the book and his plans to use it.
None of this has changed. I have seen nothing to suggest that NAF has changed his position. Yet at his CLAIM to have lost the book, which in the post I quoted Idle seemed to be taking at face value, this suddenly makes him trustworthy.
If I bought a gun and announed I was going to go on a killing spree, do I become suddenly acceptable if I say I don’t have the gun anymore and I am not sure what happened to it?
Idle’s about face here concerns me. There is not sufficient reason, imo, for his about face, and sudden changes of direction with no discernible reason worries me.
If Normal Phase is telling the truth (and I have no reason to believe that she’s not at this point), this may be the first successful blind protection I’ve ever seen in Mafia. Hell, I’ve rarely seen a successful protection that wasn’t predictable (meaning, someone was protecting an outed power role that the Scum went after). So if this really happened, that’s some damn fine work, Chip. I wonder if something cool happens because he was successful, like the old under-development role suggested?
NAF didn’t state that he’d lost the Book until Post #1177, which was just under twenty-four hours later.
The thing of it is, I didn’t think NAF knew until he told us. So how would peeker know twenty-four hours earlier, and think that info came from NAF?
So either both NAF and peeker are Scum, or peeker was truly hallucinating. Which is not beyond the realm of possibility; I would find his posting style far more understandable if it were coming from someone under the influence.
Normal Phase, how did you know to ask storyteller this? Did you get some indication that you were attacked?
In a sense. I’d rather not elaborate before I have more than a few free minutes to think about the implications. I do believe that I’m not telling the scum anything important by speaking up, or I would not have.
In a sense. I’d rather not elaborate before I have more than a few free minutes to think about the implications. I do believe that I’m not telling the scum anything important by speaking up, or I would not have.
Gotta run again now, back to answer questions whenever.
First, Thank you Normal Phase for coming forward with that. I thought it might be plausible that NAF was targetted for a night kill by scum and Chip protected him. In E.D. 1 the book was given to the killer of the previous owner. If the previous owner was protected by the Martyr, I would assume that the book wouldn’t change hands, but I could see how that would be a plausible explanation. Course, I didn’t want to offer this up as free out for NAF.
I really need a re-read to see why Normal was targetted. Of course, I gotta put in the disclaimer that Normal could be lying, but I don’t see the motivation at this point.
Idle, the more you explain yourself, the more suspicious you are becoming. Two other people have already said my thoughts exactly. You were suspicious of NAF when you knew he had and wanted to keep the book. But, now that he claims (a claim that you admit is unverifiable) to no longer have it, you are no longer suspicious. I know you think you’re are being perfectly clear on your reasoning, but, it’s just not doing it for me.
OK. There were two deaths last night, so we don’t know who was trying to kill Normal Phase. Be it Scum or PFK (or Vig?) they were no doubt surprised to learn that Chip had died. But they might have guessed the Martyr role had something to do with it.
Here are all the comments on the Martyr, or Chip, made up to the point where Normal revealed why she was still alive (edited for relevance):
Now, let’s start with the proviso that curiosity about a role revealed in the Dawn post is only natural. And I’ll further stipulate that trying to answer a question that’s already been asked is also perfectly normal behaviour.
That said, there are two people who stand out for me here. Cookies has obviously been doing a fair bit of research, as she posts twice with the result of Google searches. And Suburban Plankton seems very interested in the subject, speculating not just about what the Martyr can do, but about the relationship between Chip and mysterious third person, whether there might have been a Watcher at the kill, and whether Chip was protecting someone.
Then there’s this:
which isn’t fishing so much as a blatant appeal for someone to come forward with some useful info.
I think that Scum (or even PFK) who’d seen a) their kill go astray and b) an obscure role die would be naturally curious about what had happened, and want to explore it.
I find it mildly plausible that you took that to mean NAF actually no longer had the book. I find it far more plausible that you took that as NAF’s announcement that he no longer had the book, which NAF didn’t actually announce until post #1177.
NAF keeps saying that he understands perfectly why people want to lynch him and that he’s willing to be lynched, or, better, vigged. But any time someone actually tries to make a case against him, he scornfully dismisses it as ridiculous. Until now, I mostly believed him. Now I don’t. I think scummy NAF has been playing an extremely clever, inventive game.
I think scummy Peeker has also been playing a good game. He’s been riding a case on Mrs McGinty from before Romanic claimed. It’s been an effective distraction. Now he seems to have been in on the idea that NAF would no longer have the Necronomicon about 24 hours before NAF announced that it was taken from him. Scummy Peeker.
Suburban Plankton and Total Lost have also been trying to distract attention from the book and its importance, so they’re looking suspicious to me right now. I’m saying this because I may die, and if I do, you all should take a good look at these people.
For now, I’m leaving my vote where it’s been, on NAF.
