Quick post from phone. Cookies, if NAF is telling the truth about the book and no longer has it, an investigation tonight nets us confirmed Town. If he is Scum, an investigation nets us Scum. The only way an investigation hurts is if he’s the Godfather and no longer has the book, or Town who is lying about no longer having the book for some reason I can’t fathom. I don’t see why, if he is Town, he would rather be vigged than investigated if he lives past a lynch.
Exactly. He could or could not be lying. Welcome to the game of mafia.
All of you could or could not be lying. And I have pretty much an even suspicion of all of you (save for one or two which I find more so).
The difference before is he actually had the book (Story confirmed he took it). So when he said he was hanging onto it, I found him suspicious.
Him saying he doesn’t have the book anymore makes me go back to “He could be lying, he could be telling the truth”. And since I don’t vote nessecarily on “they could be lying, they could be telling the truth” (because then I’d be voting for all of you right now), I’m willing to wait on it for now.
Guiri:
Incorrect. I’m saying (and have been saying): Him saying he doesn’t have it anymore is a null tell. He could be lying, he could be telling the truth.
So could any one of us.
So him saying that makes him as suspicious to me about as much as 90 percent of the players in this game.
Yes, I would.
What do you mean how has his original motivations changed? I was suspicious of him saying he was going to keep the book. He’s not saying that anymore.
It’s like if I was suspicious of you for voting for someone and you retracted your vote. I wouldn’t be as suspicious of you as I would be if you had kept the vote. Make sense now?
Sure, it can be disguised as that.
It’s all detailed, with linked posts, here. 
And I’ve already addressed it here.
Other than the fact NAF was claiming to have the book before and now he’s not.
See my example to Guiri above.
:dubious: Do you even know what an OMGUS vote is? It’s a vote you cast on someone else who had just voted for you.
Guiri never voted for me…so how is my vote an OMGUS vote. That makes no sense.
And you say “unsupported”, yet I clearly support my reasons for voting for Guiri here. Sorry if you missed that.
I know this wasn’t directed at me, but here’s my take. You made a ballsy move for the book early in the game. I figured scum wouldn’t want to expose themselves like that, and most likely only VT would attempt to get the book.
But, perhaps you were banking on most people making that assumption. That’s why it’s ballsy.
You played the pro town role. Expressing that you were all about helping town and even using the book on yourself. But, instead you are scum and found that the book is extremely valuable and you decide you don’t want to ever give it up. (Why do I feel there a Rick Astley joke in there somewhere?) So, you and your scum buddies spend all night figuring out a plan to fake a book abduction and even compose a reasonably Storyish sounding PM.
If we buy what your selling, you’re off the hook and the town spends the next few days chasing our tails looking for the book. While you and your fellow deadites cackle menacingly in the darkness plotting how to best use the book.
OF course this is all just my take on it. I could be way off. But like I said before, I don’t buy that the book can be taken by anyone but who it was being used against - if at all.
Ooh ooh ooh! How about this for a conspiracy theory? Townie NAF grabs book. When he reads it, it says “You’ve been tainted by the dark magic of this book. You are now a deadite and will win or lose with the deadites”.
If Idle is also a deadite, that would explain his sudden about face wrt NAF.
Just throwing that out there.
I really don’t want to believe NAF. I never agreed that him holding on to the book was a good play for Town in the first place. The “oops, I tried to use the book and somebody stole it from me” play looks bad, bad, bad. Discussion about him and the Book continues to dominate the conversation, to the near exclusion of everything else. And his “don’t lynch me, vig me instead” idea could backfire most spectacularly in certain situations, which he would know all about if this were in fact one of them.
But I can’t find a good Scum movitation for his play. He drew suspicion yesterday when he took the Book. He drew more when he said he planned to keep it, and even more when he said he had lost it. It seems almost a foregone conclusion that if he survives the Day he will get vigged overnight (and yes, I’m pretty certain that we had a Vig somewhere among the 30 original players). And if he survives the Night, he’s going to draw suspicion for that. It just doesn’t add up. It draws too much attention, and it seems that the only way for it to end is with NAF’s death. He might buy himself a couple days, but would that be worth it to the Scum? I’m just not seeing it.
Right now the biggest problem I have with NAF is his “don’t lynch me; vig me instead” stance. Assume that NAF is Town. Then why would it be best to lynch him? The only upside to NAF’s death is that it confirms the information he has given us. If it’s a given that he must die, then that should happen as quickly as possible, so we have more time to make use of the information. Isn’t that basically the same argument that was made about Romanic on Day 1?
I’d argue that if NAF is Town it would be best for him not to die at all. If he dies, what do we get? We know that he’s telling the truth about the Book’s powers. But he’s already told us that the one power he tried to use did not have the expected effect, so it doesn’t seem that knowing the names of the various Book powers is helping us much. We also know that he was being truthful that someone stole the Book from him. That still tells us absolutely nothing about where it is now. Do we get additional information that I’m not seeing? If he lives, then at least we can investigate and confirm him, and give the Scum another target that they need to shoot for, instead of doing their job for them.
NAF, why is it better for you to be vigged than lynched, and why aren’t you putting forth any argument that it would be better to let you live?
I figured that’s what people are thinking, or at least a variation on that.
But why would I do that? I was already planning on keeping the book? Faking an abduction is just stupid.
I fail to see how someone who was lucky in the scrum is ballsy, unless Story asked the winner if they would like to receive the book in public or in private, or advantages with respect to the book are somehow folded into powers/roles. I’ve seen nothing to indicate the last two.
Which brings me to my point. I think NAF is getting tons of attention because he won the scrum, and only because he won the scrum. So, he’s scrummy, yes. Scummy? Not nearly enough data to make that call yet.
I already explained why I think it’s better for me to be vigged than lynched, but I’ll try to be less long winded.
Town only get’s so many lynches, and lynched do more than eliminate players, they generate information. A lynch of me right now generates, I think, less quality information than looking for a different target.
Why I should be vigged? Because I don’t know how to stop being the center of attention at this point and I think that me and the book being the center of attention are actively hurting the town right now.
The best would be for me to be allowed to live and be trusted, but since I don’t see that happening short of an investigation, and there are better uses for investigative powers right now and *really *better things for cops to do than to out themselves to keep me alive I think that the best way to minimize the damage is for me to be killed.
If someone has a better solution I am all ears.
Also the thought of a Scum busdriver gives me pause. If they know where the Vig is shooting.
ugh. there I go again. I mean advantages with respect to scrumming for the book. That was not commentary about the alleged book thief in our midst.
@Idle, you may have addressed wanderers contention, but it still stands. You did state that NAF no longer had the book.
You may have meant that he claimed to no longer have it, but that’s not what you said.
It strikes me as fairly similar to peekr’s situation. The statments may have been errors in judgement or phrasing, or they could be something else.
You cannot deny that it is a data point against you.
@NAF:
I’m inclined to believe you about the book being stolen. You had, as you already stated, claimed you planned on keeping it. And, IIRC, a fair amount of townies were okay with your plan; that is, that you’d keep the book and use it on yourself.
Given that, I think it’s crazy to think a scummy NAF would claim the book was stolen. What’s the angle? For that reason, I’m leaning town NAF.
However, I disagree that an investigation would be “wasted” on you. A cop’s job is to confirm townies; finding scum is a nice side benefit. Since you don’t have the book, you’d be investigated as town. If you were to come up scum, the cop could sit on it for another day and report back on the third. They’d have three results, including yours, and town would have their answer. Or sit a little longer, but I’d say 3 results were pretty good, especially if one of them were scum. The risk is always there that they’d be lynched before revealing their results.
That’s assuming there’s nothing else scummy about you. I do find it problematic that your plan hinged on reporting back to town, and you’ve failed to do that about the single power you used. You told us that it’s not in town’s interest to know the power… and I can’t think of a single reason why that might be.
I’m not convinced, but I understand everyone’s case on you. I’m just pointing out that in my opinion, an investigation wouldn’t actually be wasted on you, and a vig killing you isn’t the best town outcome if you’re truly a townie.
My vote is staying on Omi no Kami. A search of the rest of the board reveals that he’s been plenty prolific in threads that aren’t this one. His failure to play this game, coupled with his very scummy final post, is enough for me.
Given the number of people who posted yesterDay that they expected that the Book would be up for grabs again toDay, I’m not sure how this can be supported.
Are you skimming? You’re basically repeating OAOW’s post 1272, which I answered in post 1273.
So rather than write it out again, I’ll just repeat the earlier exchange.
NETA: Replace “lynch” with “night killed.” They’d of course reveal their results before being lynched.
Did Idle make his coment long after NAF commented on trying to keep the book and also having had it stolen from him?
And my point is that despite what you say, his point is still Valid.
Before he reposted your words, you were arguing that your suspicion diminishd because NAF claimed to have lost the book.
In reality you stated that NAF no longer had the book.
I’m glad we can agree that what you said is worthy of suspicion.
I am trying to figure out how to phrase this without falling back on “trust me”
The power I used is a roleblock power that only works under certain circumstances. There are almost* no instances where using it would be pro town. But unless you know the circumstances necessary to make it work, it can’t be used against town either. I am trying to keep the circumstances for the power under wraps.
*I can actually think of 1, but the odds of that particular situation coming up while the book is actually in town hands and they have need to use the power are insane. More likely town would just get lucky. But even more likely than that, town would get very unlucky and hurt themselves badly if they try to use that power.
Am I missing something here? I have already contested that his point is valid in post 1273 (which I’ve told you twice before this now to go read).
So what is -your- point?