Fantasy Football general discussion

The Game Room
1

I should’ve started an in-season thread earlier, where everyone could ask matchup questions, gripe about ridiculous losses, form of a Chris Johnson Owners support group, whatever comes to mind.

Speaking of Chris Johnson, what the hell is going on there? Did he show up to his team completely out of shape? It seems like the ability to run really fast wouldn’t just leave him in that time period, and he’s had a while now to be in game shape. I would assume he’d be working out every day too if he were asking for a big contract, so what the hell happened? He didn’t just have like a 1 YPC falloff - he’s been completely useless.
I wonder if the ridiculous NFL enforcement to boost the passing game will make people rethink the value of QBs vs RBs in fantasy terms. We’ve got 3 QBs on pace to beat Marino’s all time yardage record, we’ve got an absurd number of 400 yard passing games already, and in general it’s easier than it’s ever been to pass. I’m not sure why this is the year everything went absolutely nuts - so far as I recall, there were no rule or enforcement changes specifically to this year - yet QBs are going absolutely nuts.
It’s also looking like Cam Newton isn’t a fluke. Will he be in serious consideration for being the #1 pick selected at QB next year?

Anyway, anything fantasy football related is open. GO!

2

How about the relative value of Devery Henderson? :stuck_out_tongue:

I think the holdout hurt him a lot. The bit I’ve actually watched of him, he doesn’t seem to have that combination of burst and breakaway speed that he had even last year. I also think he has an attitude problem (he’s on record saying the problems he’s had definitely aren’t his fault), his O line isn’t opening holes, and defenses are geared to stop him. Finally, I think he’s regressing to the mean. Each week though, I expect him to wow me, but he still hasn’t.

It’s a long season. I’d wait and see what happens from here on out before deciding what’s going on.

It’s still early, but anyone who takes Newton before Rodgers is more than welcome to be in a league with me. He still has more int’s than TD’s passing and I think defenses are learning more about how to play him.

I hate how many fantasy football games are determined by injuries, especially in game injuries. This past week Darren McFadden, Earnest Graham, Beanie Wells, Tashard Choice, Percy Harvin, and Santana Moss all cost owners by going out early. Add in Marshawn Lynch’s pregame injury, Tim Hightower’s ACL, McGahee’s hand, and Stafford’s ankle and it’s just brutal (at least those guys scored this week). If NFL coaches can have backups go in for injured guys, maybe fantasy football could too. Say naming a player as a backup at each position and you get his points based on lost time for your injured starter. Probably a bigger pain than it’s worth, but damn if I don’t get pissed losing because someone goes out in the first quarter rather than that fourth.

3

Another thing to add: My money league has an additional 2 roster spots for coaches. You draft coaches too, and you have the choice to start them or not. If you start your coach and they win, you get 10 points. If you start them and you lose, you lose 10 points. I think it adds a bit more “watch the game instead of the individual players” motivation and it’s an interesting tactical choice. I wouldn’t mind seeing more leagues doing it.

4

I can’t believe you’re still going on about that. It was still a fine decision. You aren’t adjusting appropriately for the circumstances.

We’re in a league with 300 players drafted, with 20 people competing over every player. Values for players that might not even be on a roster on a typical league will skyrocket because we’re all fighting for scraps, and there are more people and more total FAAB dollars to do that fighting. Carson Palmer just got someone’s entire $109 FAAB. Ricky Williams went for $58, and it’s not like Ray Rice is out.

Most of the peripheral players who have a chance at breaking out were already owned. There are very few players who aren’t on rosters who are worth anything. The next best FA receivers available right now are Dezmon Briscoe, Donald Jones, and Andre Caldwell.

Who is it that you think I should’ve been saving up for all season long? What are the big valuable players I missed out on?

I was predicting Henderson would be good for about 600/5, and that makes him worth rostering in such a deep league, and he’s not far off from being on pace for that target.

I picked him up in another typical 12 man league and paid $7 for him, so it’s not as if I thought he was going to light the world on fire. You’re just taking something that seems odd in a vaccuum (lol wtf $60 for devery henderson!?!?) and not adjusting it to the circumstances.

5

I will add that he tends to be a very streaky player, and he tends to put up 130 yard/2 TD games and then nothing for a few weeks, and I figured his big games would win me a game or two. And it’s not like he isn’t being targetted at all - he landed out of bounds on a TD catch last night. His upside is somewhat limited with how much of the offense is running through Jimmy Graham though, which was unexpected. Colston being back in 2 weeks was also unexpected. Both things made Henderson reasonably seem more valuable at that time. Moore was projected out for a few weeks, Colston was projected out for a few weeks - Henderson did have one big game, but after that the extra targets went through Graham. I absolutely stand by my decision though.

6

I’m pretty happy with the way my league is going. No headaches as the Commish, the games are pretty competitive every week, and my team is doing well. The other players seem to be enjoying themselves, so I think the league will keep going next year.

Jimmy Graham was the steal of the draft. He’s putting up awesome numbers for me, and makes TE a big scoring position.

I took some heat for drafting 4 QBs–but I just traded Schaub for Frank Gore, and that should improve my running game considerably.

7

Gonna brag. I have 818 or so total points. The next highest team in my league has 688. This is not counting tonight, where I have 167 points with a kicker left to go, and the next highest point scoring team this week has 125. I am a juggernaut.

8

As I said, good luck with that. He’s goose egged you once, and had 3 straight weeks with 1 catch and less than 20 yards and no td’s. He had one great week, one average week, and was horrid the last four weeks.

Here’s a list of WR’s who have comparable numbers who were picked up at the same time or after for so much cheaper: Randall Cobb, Doug Baldwin, Preston Parker, David Nelson, Danario Alexander, Michael Crabtree, Kevin Walter, James Jones, the mighty Jason Avant, and Laurent Robinson. And those are just the WR’s. All comparable guys to Devery and who could be had for so much less.

I think you’re a tad bit defensive on this. It was a throw away comment about a guy I remembered you loved off the top of my head. I honestly didn’t even know he was doing so poorly the last 4 weeks until I checked after your post. I think he was a waste of a lot of money, you don’t, and life goes on. That’s one thing that makes fantasy football interesting.

9

You know what was really a waste? Jamaal Charles! I spent a #2 overall draft pick on him, and he’s given me 6 goose eggs since then. If only I’d known he wasn’t worth what I spent on him!

Ok, so let’s go back to Tueday, September 12 when I made the add.

Lance Moore is out with a leg injury for 2-4 weeks. Marques Colston is out with a broken collarbone, reportedly for up to 6 weeks. Jimmy Graham is just a hyped fantasy prospect. Yet the Saints offense was just as productive as ever. Those balls have to go somewhere.

Henderson had just put up a 20 point game in his first game out. Saints WRs are inconsistent but given that the targets have to go somewhere, there’s a good chance his workload would remain high.

And we’re in a league in which people start 3rd down RBs and the 4th WR on teams out of sheer necesity because there’s not a lot of talent to go around. Teams fight hard over players that wouldn’t even go drafted in a typical league. And Henderson is the biggest unrostered scorer in the league in week 1.

There’s also the issue that money spent early is more valuable, all else being equal, than money spent late. If you pick up a guy after week 1 who starts for you for the rest of the season, that’s more valuable than picking up a somewhat better player in, say, week 13.

As far as your examples - Crabtree, Walter, Alexander, and James Jones were rostered, so they weren’t available. Of the remainders - Cobbs, Baldwin, Parker, Nelson, Avant, and Laurent - did any of them seem like anywhere as good a prospect as one of the remaining healthy Saints receivers?

Cobbs, A rookie that was the 6th receiving option in Green Bay

Doug Baldwin, an undrafted rookie who had Tavaris Jackson as his quarterback.

Preston Parker, the 3rd or 4th receiver on Tampa Bay, an undrafted rookie last year who caught an entire 4 passes all year

David Nelson, a 2nd year UDFA for the Bills

Jason Avant - better than Steve Smith (CAR), you got me there

And Laurent Robison, the Cowboy’s 4th (?) receiver?

It should’ve been obvious to me that these guys were all just as good as Devery Henderson given the situation I outlined above?

As for being a guy I love, I don’t know where you’re getting at. All else being equal, I don’t like owning Saints WRs. Too much like having a Shanahan RB.

10

You don’t see the difference between injured and “not good”?

Must we? Seriously, I get it. You liked him, you had your reasons, and you spent the money so now he’s on your team just like you wanted. I don’t like him, I have my reasons, I wouldn’t have spent that much, and I didn’t pick him up. It all worked out. You’re happy, I’m happy.

I honestly don’t have a problem with you picking up Devery, it was spending that amount of money for one guy who, to my mind, is easily replaceable (see the list of guys I named) and is more likely to get you 2 points or less than get you 7. But you have a strategy, it’s not an insane strategy, and now you have Henderson. It’s all good.

11

I’m saying you’re evaluating with hindsight, and that there were factors that it was reasonable for me not to anticipate. Both Henderson and Moore came back from injury earlier than they were projected, and Jimmy Graham became a much bigger part of an offense that traditionally did not feature TEs at all.

I don’t know. Is it that much of a burden? You’re the instigator here, so it’s weird to act like I’m asking you to evaluate this situation out of the blue.

This is bullshit. You don’t have a “well we disagree on this, fair enough” position. You have a “your action was so ridiculous that I’m going to mock it and then bring it up again a month later to mock it again”.

If you’re going to take that tone, I’m going to aggressively state my case.

I still don’t regret it, by the way - it wasn’t an optimal use of money, but he’s still better than most people are starting in their WR3 spot in this league. Would you feel it somehow better if he put up 6 points every week instead of going for 20 one week and then 0 points for three? Because that’s his typical pattern, yet he still scores the points.

But with the situation at the time, it was a perfectly reasonable move. Again, it’s not like I was totally in love with Henderson - I bid $7 for him in another league. It’s strictly the unusual circumstances of this league that lead me to make what seemed like an unusual move, if you’re not properly adjusting your strategy for the conditions of this league.

Which, by the way, as the top scorer in year one and year two and among the top scorers so far this year, I would suggest that I do have some understanding of the strategy involved in that league.

12

As I said, it wasn’t unreasonable to want to pick up Devery (I wouldn’t have wanted him though). I found paying over 60 dollars to do it to be wasteful.

“Instigator”? Dude, it’s fantasy football, not me talking shit about your mom.

And you have. Quite aggressively. We apparently disagree not just on Henderson, but also the role of smack talk in fantasy football. I’ll try not to make that mistake with you again.

Good. Congrats. Are we done now?

13

It’s hard to say because there’s no way for me to see what other people bid. What if 3 other people bid $40+, is it still wasteful? Torrey Smith went for $60. Bernard Scott went for $55. Victor Cruz went for $46. Ryan Torrain went for $74. Is it that unreasonable to think I’d have serious competition with the top-scoring unrostered player in week 1 when everyone has their entire FAAB in front of them, especially given injuries to the point he was most in competition with for workload?

Yeah, I’m not taking it that seriously. I’m just saying it makes little sense to say what essentially is “Haha, you did something dumb!” “No, I didn’t, look at the information I had at the time and …” “Oh, do I have to?” - you brought it up, so it’s weird to react that way.

I’m not deeply offended or taking it personally, so maybe I sound more serious than I mean to be. I’m just saying that you think what I did was dumb, and I don’t, and I have a lot of reasonable explanation to back me up, so I’m stating it. Smack works better when you talk about an actual failure of the other person, YMMV.

Again, you brought it up. I’m only bringing up counterpoints.

14

And Preston Parker went for $1, Randall Cobb for $20, Doug Baldwin for 7, David Nelson for 0, Danario Alexander for 0, James Jones for $5, and on and on.

It’s smack talk. For fun, you know? Henderson hadn’t pinged by fantasy radar for weeks, and I didn’t even know precisely how poorly he’s performed over the last 4 weeks until you got all defensive.

We disagree on the value of a player. I think you overpaid, you think you didn’t. It happens all the time in fantasy football. Maybe now I’ll make sure to keep my opinions to myself, lest I be labelled an “instigator”.

15

Don’t drama queen.

I already said it wasn’t somehow some breach of conduct, just that you were the one to bring it up, so you shouldn’t be disinterested in my comeback.

16

So, if there were a fantasy internet shit flinging league, the number one pick might have been Dio, but he’s gone. Looks like this thread is showcasing two contenders.
In other words: knock it the fuck off.

This Chris Johnson thing is a pain in the ass. My gut says to try and trade for him in every league, because he can’t be lower right now. Right?

17

I love the “instigator” shot the post after a drive-by instigation on somebody who wasn’t even in the thread at that moment… and to Hamlet, who, of all people, probably deserves the title more than anyone else who posts in football threads on this forum.

High comedy.

18

I’ve had the same feeling, for weeks. I’m not going near him now. The return is too unpredictable considering that anyone who owns Chris Johnson still considers him CJ2K and wants something very, very valuable for him.

19

Oh FFS, I wasn’t using “instigator” as a judgement, I already made that clear. I just meant that as the person initiating the conversation about the issue, you shouldn’t act like someone is boring you by making a counterpoint to the issue that was brought up. Replace “instigator” with “intiator of this thread of the discussion” if you want something less judgemental sounding.
And I’m not sure what you’re referring to. What was “drive-by instigation on someone who wasn’t even in teh thread”?

20

That is so not …

Oh.

Shit.

Mayhap I should be a tad more diplomatic around here.