I think we all missed the obvious. All of the hundreds of thousands of overweight people in this country who have tried unsuccessfully to lose weight were just doing it wrong. Those 95-98% of dieters who fail (by which, of course, we mean not failing to lose the weight, but failing to keep it off) do so because they aren’t doing it the right way, the webmastr way.
So please, oh wise one, enlighten us. Do what Weight Watchers, and Jenny Craig, and Dr. Atkins, and Dexatrim, and our own doctors and therapists couldn’t do. Tell us the one true way to lose weight.
And no, the answer is not, “well just eat reasonable amounts of food and get some exercise.” Because if we could do that, and that was as easy as you seem to think it is, then we’d all be thin.
Tell us how to fight that incredible, insane craving that makes food the only thing that will make the world right. Tell us how to just stop when we’re sitting in a restaurant, or in Mom’s kitchen, being served those before-mentioned enormous portions, knowing that it’s not on our diet, but unable to put down the fork. Tell us what to do once we are thin, having achieved the goal that you keep saying is so unimportant, and our lives are still crap, and everyone around is eating the good food we’re denying ourselves, and some of them are thin, and we just can’t understand why it should be so, and why we should forever be denied the foods we love most. Tell us how to stop the slow creep that starts with an extra slice of cheese, or an apple between meals, and ends up with bags of M&M’s or a Big Mac and fries, until the whole dieting/gaining cycle starts all over again.
…
…
we’re waiting… [taps foot impatiently]
Because if you do have the answer, then it’s your duty, your responsibility, to share it with the world. And think about the oodles of money you’re going to make by solving the weight problem that plagues so many people, not to mention the fact that you’ll never have to hear a whiny fat person complaining again.
[aside]Is anyone else reminded of JDT and the “right” way to have sex?[/aside]
Have you gone mad, Biggirl? Have you been poking the soft spot in your head with your self-professed pudgy fingers? Are you seriously flaming me because others picked up on something I said and went on their own tangent with it? ::sigh::
I assert, once again, that I’m not spreading ugliness about anyone, let alone a class of people. The following is a statement that perpetuates stereotypes (pay attention here):
All fat people eat five piece fried chicken meals from Popeye’s and then complain that they can’t lose weight.
That’s a nasty sentence. But my sentence does not say that. My sentence says:
**Now, onto my point. I, too, hate when anyone who deems themselves to be fat complains about their size while woofing down a 5 piece fried chicken meal from Popeye’s. **
If you’ll note, I hate it when a particular event occurs. This event has happened in my presence and I hate it. I’m not perpetuating a stereotype, ugly or otherwise. I’m stating that I hate it when the aforementioned occurs.
If you’re fat because you overeat and don’t exercise then just don’t complain about it to me. I don’t want to hear it. I don’t want to know that you used to be skinny but then you gained all this weight and now you’re having a hard time losing it. If your caloric consumption is more than your caloric expenditure and you want to lose weight, don’t bitch about it to me!
BRAVO AND KUDOS, SpoilerVirgin!!! For too many people (myself included) food is our drug of choice. The problem being, you can go off drugs, go off alcohol, and go off tobacco with withdrawal symptoms, true, but withOUT jeopardizing your life. But try going off FOOD (pardon upcoming pun) cold turkey. YOU’LL STARVE, YOU’LL DIE, and maybe that’s what we fatties should all do in the first place, huh, webmastr?
Back in my Jenny Craig days (and I lost 50 pounds in 2 years, and it’s all come back) they had a saying “Nothing tastes as good as thin feels.” Well, the truth is, “Nothing feels as good as numbing yourself out with food that tastes good.” It’s the anodyne to life. Perhaps Fat Bastard said it best in “Austin Powers II”: “I’m unhappy because I eat. And I eat because I’m unhappy.”
Try breaking THAT vicious cycle sometime! After years of diets, counseling, etc. I’ve come to the conclusion I’d rather be fat and happy than thin and unhappy. I am what I am, this is how I am, and you’ll just have to accept it.
Oh, and by the way, if you think American portions are huge, try eating at the Nouvelle Cuisine places. THAT should make you happy – their portion sizes wouldn’t even feed a 3 year old!
I shouldn’t even be thinking about posting a thing. I’m trying to get back to my life and my work, and this place is a bottomless pit of time suckage. I’ve lost days to writing posts here and I still can’t figure out why I do it. But what the hell…
Webmastr, judging from what you have shared with us here, I will venture the opinion that you did not do very well in logic puzzles at school. Your attempts to “logically” explain your position don’t fall apart upon examination, they never stood up to begin with.
First of all, with all due respect – not that you have demonstrated that you actually deserve any – you are being, shall we say, just a tiny bit less than honest about what exactly it is you are objecting to. And why, I can’t imagine. You are obviously comfortable with despising fat people. If you weren’t, you never would have opened your mouth – or your browser, as the case may be. You also, it appears, have no small amount of animosity for the United States and her people in general.
The level of your hostility strikes me as inappropriate, however. Which leads me to conclude, as someone else did somewhere in here, that you are leaving something out. It’s possible, even likely, that it is something even you are not really aware of, and that is why it has come spilling forth as this bile about fat people, “gluttony” and “waste”. There is no question that the US is the richest country on earth… perhaps it is something as simple, as common, and yet as ugly as mere envy. We’ll probably never know; you have not demonstrated that you are an especially introspective or insightful individual, and that kind of self-awareness demands it. So we’ll have to go with what we know for sure.
Of all the deeply flawed, irrational, and simply stupid remarks you have made up to now, the one that dumbfounds me most thoroughly is this:
After I picked my jaw up off the floor, I have to admit, I burst out laughing. This has to be, really, the most perfectly ludicrous and feeble attempt to logically justify a person’s hatred of anything that I have ever read in my life. Oh, I’m sure I’ve come across worse, but not lately, and if I have, I don’t remember when. And I’m not referring to the atrocious grammar.
You certainly don’t see it, since you actually, unbelievably, came up with it and wrote it out, so I’ll help you by re-writing it slightly, including all the pertinent facts:
*"If you try, (which of course means restricting and radically altering your diet for months, and then years on end, and exercising vigorously and regularly, again, for months and years on end) I think it would be very hard NOT to lose enough weight to get you below the “obese” stage.
Those last 5-15 pounds are probably a real pain in the ass, and given the modern lifestyles of long hours in front of a PC, or at a desk, or in a car, there is probably not much to do about that. After all, losing 5 pounds or even 15 pounds would take, what…3, 4, 5 weeks? And who could devote themselves to doing that? But losing 50 pounds, or 100 pounds, or 150 pounds, which would take months and years, well, that should be a snap!
Given all the posts, and evidence presented so far, I still do not believe that someone more than 50lbs. overweight would find it ‘really difficult’ to bring that down to a more managable 15-20lbs. After all, all they would have to do is rewire their psychology, give up all the pleasant foods that the rest of us get to eat, and exercise at least every other day for months and years. What’s hard about that? I just don’t understand what your objections are…what could be easier? Again…if you only have to make these same changed for a couple of weeks to get rid of a couple of pounds…well, I’m deeply sympathetic to how difficult that is and I let you completely off the hook. That’s just way too hard to expect of a person, really. But a lifetime of working at it every day? No sweat! Whiners!"*
Really, Webmastr, what in heaven’s name were you thinking? I’ve searched and searched, checked behind the furniture, under rocks, and through the dirty laundry, and I just cannot locate the tiniest little speck of rational, logical thought behind these assertions. They are simply, unequivically, stupid. Not to mention the fact that they take your hatred and prejudice, throw them on the wall, and outline them in neon. Because here’s your * real * “logic”: “I find extremely obese people disgusting. Therefore, they should do whatever it takes to get rid of all that repulsive fat so I don’t have to look at it. But being a couple of pounds over ideal is not repulsive to me, so people who have the kind of weight challenge don’t have to feel any need to change it.” Then you tried to make it sound rational and fed it to us. What amazes me is that no one up to now has busted you on it.
On top of the blatant illogic in your assertions that doing what is necessary to lose weight is difficult to do for 15 pounds/a few weeks but easy to do for 50-100-150 pounds/a few years (I still can’t believe you even TRIED to say that…) is this: if someone has managed to add a few extra pounds to their usually trim bodies through inactivity, wild holiday gorging, getting a little older, whatever, you are dealing with someone who does not really have a weight/eating problem, in all likelihood. So for them to “do something about it” is probably not that big a deal, and actually DOES boil down to what you claim for all fat people, no matter how obese: that it is just a matter of being lazy and unwilling to apply the necessary discipline to take the weight off. But when we are talking about people who are morbidly obese (the medical term), people who are carrying 70-100-150-200-300 extra pounds, you know, the really repulsively fat people, you are not looking at people who are simply “lazy”, you are talking about people who have serious issues of all kinds, not the least often being a psychological dependence on food as an addictive substance.
Here I find you saying it again, slightly differently, and just as illogically:
No, they have the excuse that they have a very serious, challenging, and for some, nearly insurmountable problem. It’s ** not ** " * merely * a matter of being “lazy” when you weigh 300 pounds, it’s something * much more significant than that. * How you can let lazy office rats that munch fast food and get a gut off the hook, but rag brutally on people who obviously have very serious, painful, and life-threatening health problems, as though it were simply a matter of getting up a little earlier in the morning, is completely astonishing to me. You are so completely blinded by your disgust and hatred that you have sacrificed all rational thought on the altar of judgment.
You said it yourself, and then contradicted yourself, (no doubt because you realized you’d have to show a little compassion):
Quotes from Column A:
Quotes From Column B:
Indeed. Of course, you go on to say:
Which of course then calls into question this:
Which you claim was your “real” point. And I notice that you simply skipped over my inquiry to you regarding how utterly strange it must be for you to be accosted by hoards of grotesquely obese US citizens all complaining to you about how fat they are and they can’t do anything about it.
By the way, the number of wild, downright laughable contradictions in your posts is enough to give a person an actionable case of whiplash. The desperation is amusing.
See, I am not going to waste too much time giving you grief for being bigoted, uncaring, ignorant, rude, envious and essentially insecure. What’s the point? My fundamental complaint with you is that you are dishonest about it. You said you weren’t backing off because you were flamed (god forbid the pissed- off fat people should have an effect on you! Or possibly be…no, it couldn’t be…right? Not the nasty fat people!), you were just realizing that you had badly worded what you * really * meant to say. But Webmastr, what you really mean to say is completely transparent…why not simply own up to it? Is it because you don’t like the way it makes you look? Because you do, somewhere in your dark little pissed off heart, know that your attitude is vicious, cruel, and shallow?
You have repeatedly stated that you do not accept all the many explanations for being fat that you have been offered. With the single exception of clinical disease, which you will only allow for 2% of the fat population, all other explanations you have dismissed. Not genetics, not psychological disturbance, not whatever. All reasons are no reason at all to you. You do not say this as someone who actually * knows * something about the causes of obesity. You have no education, training, or experience with the problem. All you know for sure is that * you * have no problem with dropping 5 pounds when you need to, and therefore no one else should have a problem losing 100 pounds.
Here is the fact: you “know” exactly zero. Nothing. Nada. Zip. The big blankola. You are certainly a man of much opinion, but your opinion springs from a bottomless pit of ignorance.
So why would you be so insistent that there is no good explanation for the rampant obesity in this country? At least, no explanation except that US citizens are greedy, gluttonous, self-indulgent pigs deserving of nothing more than contempt? I’ll tell you: because if you accepted that there are other reasons, then your hatred, disgust and judgment would be without justification and make you nothing more than a heartless, shallow, judgmental bigot. And you don’t want to think of yourself as a heartless, shallow, judgmental bigot. That would make you a not-so-nice person. Soooo… better to think of the fat people as being the ones who are beneath contempt. Because somebody in this scenario is gonna be, and if I were you I wouldn’t want it to be me either.
If you decide you would like an education about obesity, I’ll be happy to offer you what I know, which is a lot. But since gaining any real insight into the problem would demand that you stop being so intellectually lazy and do the hard work needed to change your deeply ingrained vicious bigotry, and I’m guessing you won’t be seeking that insight.
Does Mrs. Pyrrhonist know you talk like this:
** Tub-of-Lardom **
** hogs at a trough **
** wallow in front of the TV on the couch with a bag of potato chips **
And most charming of all:
** I’ll love her no matter what her size, but gee-whiz what a pig. **
What loving words. I’m sure she’d feel all googly inside reading this. :rolleyes:
Don’t think you’re doing her any favors sticking by her and silently despising her all the while. And you are, you know, whatever you might say about it.
It is perfectly understandable that you might not be pleased with her being so fat, both because she is less attractive to you and because it endangers her health. But there is a world of difference between a loving concern and some personal disappointment and “Well, she may be a wallowing tub-o-lard scarfing like a hog at the trough, but hey, she’s MY wallowing tub-o-lard scarfing like a hog at the trough.”
Have you lost all sense of proportion, Juanita? Do you think that was a serious flame? You said something I took exception to and I responded to that. I have no need to get personal with you, I think you are a smart girl who has some issues with her fat mother-in-law. I was pointing out how people pick up things you say(and you did say it) and continue on the very tangent you started.
So you’re saying you didn’t mean you hate it when fat people eat alot and complain about their weight. What you actually meant was you hate it when people who say they are fat eat 5 peices of chicken at Popeye’s. This particular event. In Popeye’s. And you meant 5 peices of chicken. If it’s 6 peices, all bets are off. I shouldn’t have taken it any other way. Is that what you are trying to say here? And the meaning of the sentence changes significantly in your eyes because you didn’t say all fat people you merely said anyone who deems themselves to be fat.
Also, according to you, since your mother-in-law did it in front of you, so it’s O.K. to say you hate self-described fat people who eat alot in public and bitch about it.
Why the fuck shouldn’t I. Most women in this country complain about their weight, I need a special dispensation to do it because I’m fat? I could understand if you’re sick of hearing about people complaining about weight issues, but you specifically pick out the fat ones. Those people better not bitch, not around Juanita, and especially if they are eating 5 peices of chicken at Popeye’s since this she hates it when this particular event occurs.
Do you think that was a serious flame? You said something I took exception to and I responded to that. I have no need to get personal with you, I think you are a smart girl who has some issues with her fat mother-in-law. I didn’t think you were a bigot until this last bit here about how fat people can’t complain around you.
My pudgy fingers are doing a number on my soft spot, Juanita. Please explain to me again. Who is it that burns your butt if they complain in public? Your mother-in-law, self-deemed fat people, self-deemed fat people who are eat more than you think they should?
Stoidela, good post, woman! I have only two small quibbles:
You (and others, but I liked the rest of your post so much I am addressing it from your post) assert that some people are psychologically addicted to food. Maybe, but I doubt it. I think being seriously overweight has much more to do with physiology than psychology–and I am a psychologist, so it is not like I tend to dismiss psychological explanations.
Someone did call the pinheaded original poster on his statement that it should be easy to lose weight if one is obese–me. Although since I feel like the frigging ghost poster around here, I am not surprised…
I am. I’m very sick of it. I’m sick of hearing it from my mother-in-law who is fat as a house but blames her inability to lose weight on genetically engineered food and NutraSweet which the body supposedly turns into fat. I’m sick of hearing it from my skinny friend at work whom I love dearly, who is very sexy and curvey and weighs now what I probably haven’t weighed since I was 9, but can’t eat a piece of chocolate without holding it to her hips or butt and saying, “I should just tape it there because that’s where it’s going anyway.” I’m sick of hearing it from my husband who is not terribly overweight and actually loses weight easily when he does get off his butt and exercises but instead sits on his butt and complains about his weight. And I’m especially sick of hearing about it from jag-offs who think they know better than anyone else what is right for people they’ve never even met and know nothing about the background of, as if the same solution will work for everyone.
Well, I didn’t wanna go there. You and I both know that the causes of obesity are numerous, complex, and probably slightly different for every person who struggles with the problem. My own experience has been that there are strong elements of both a psychological addiction and a physiological addiction. The old Syndrome X, carb addiction, insulin issues…etc. But there’s no denying the numbers of fat people who overeat in direct response to emotional issues. [sub] I AM A CLASSIC EXAMPLE. FROM BIRTH TO AGE 6, I WAS EXTREMELY THIN, AND IT WAS A CONSTANT STRUGGLE TO INTEREST ME IN FOOD. ABOUT ALL I CARED TO EAT WAS BREAD AND MILK. MY PARENTS SEPARATED WHEN I WAS 6, AND SUDDENLY, FOOD WAS ALL I COULD THINK ABOUT. AND THINGS DETERIORATED FROM THERE [/SUB] Combine the two and you have a deadly combination resulting in fat people. Throw in yo-yo dieting, and you end up with superfat people.
But again…Webmastr and those who think as he does don’t really want answers. After all, they think they have them. I imagine that makes for a very comfortable life.
I noticed that a few people busted him on saying that losing weight should be easy for the obese, but I just didn’t think I saw anyone pointing out the wacky irrationality of saying it should be easy for the superfat, but it’s understandably difficult for the slightly overweight. Which is just patently ridiculous on its face. And it’s something he asserted at least twice. But again…the contradictions in his posts are non-stop, one right after another.
Hell no, she doesn’t know I talk this way, do you take me for a fool? What should I say instead? How about something very PC like: she consumes snacks heartily while reclining on the couch and watching her favorite movies on the VCR. (A habit, BTW, she doesn’t indulge in too much these days, fortunately.)
As for silently despising her weight (I’ll add that phrase and emphasis, thank you very much) I think it is a lot better than vocally despising her weight or divorcing her for her weight. As for even despising her weight, well, I happen to think obesity is a serious problem, a problem she could address with a little more effort. I think it is perfectly acceptable to find faults in your spouse and dislike those faults.
Not only is that deeply, relentlessly, and painfully obnoxious under all circumstances, and profoundly so in the company of persons who really do have unmistakable weight problems, it is also amazingly sad and pathetic. Tell your friend to get a life.
And I don’t know if you have an obvious weight problem, but if you do, she’s not much of a friend and you should tell her so.
Which gives me the opening to say what I am sick of hearing: slim women, or even normal sized women, or even slightly plump women bitching about how fat they are, how disgusting their thighs are, how big their gut is, what a humongous ass they have, blah blah blah. And I’m especially intolerant of these same ridiculous women whiming about all this shit in front of ME, and then trying to tell me that they feel just as insecure about their body as I do, and their insecurity about their looks is just as valid and understandable as mine, and I should be more sympathetic.
CRAP. LIES. BULLSHIT.
The difference between you and me, ladies, is that you stand there and say “oh, I’m so fat! My thighs are so huge! My ass is like the side of a house!” and everyone in earshot thinks you are nuts, and probably tells you you are nuts. When i stand there and say the same thing, everyone within earshot nods vigorously in agreement.
Your experience is NOTHING like mine. Just because you have bought into the ludicrous cultural expectation of the female form and are getting all insecure about the fact that you are not competition for Christy Turlington, does NOT mean that your life experience bears the slightest relationship to mine, ok? So please, get a little fucking perspective, and stop whining before I haul off and smack ya.
So do I. And I also think the language you use to describe those faults says a great deal about how you feel about the fault and the person who suffers from the fault. The language you used was ugly and mean and completely without compassion or sympathy. My honey isn’t crazy about how heavy I am, and loves me utterly. He would never think or express his feelings about my weight the way you did. I’m sure if Mrs. Pyrrhonist saw that post, she’d be absolutely devastated.
There have been some very good posts on the topic, considering this is the Pit.
I tend to agree with JTR. I think that webmastr is simply searching for a topic to flame Americans. He is totally anti-American and probably a wanna-be American. He is jealous of the richness and prosperity of the American people. It is evident by his choice of words that he basically despises Americans. It really has nothing to do with fat people at all, because everyone knows that fat is world-wide.
I’m sorry webmastr that you weren’t destined to be born in America. You have my sympathy. Pardon me while I shout out how proud to be an American I am! And thank goodness you aren’t.
You’re on my hero list. I was so annoyed by the pompous guttersnipe of an OP that I couldn’t even collect my thoughts coherently to address his crap. You, however, did a splendid job. ::applause::
Oh, and Pyrrhonist? :rolleyes: If you think your wife doesn’t pick up on your vibes, you’re wrong. That kind of attitude is not as subtle as you seem to think.
Yes, the U.S. has a lot of overweight people. This is generally recognized as a problem, something of a national public health problem, I guess. Statistically, yes, the U.S. has a higher proportion of obese & morbidly obese people than other countries, particularly the other countries you’re traveling to.
But it’s our problem. It’s part of our country, whether we (or you) like it or not.
Unfortunately, saying insulting things about people’s weight is low-class. Lots of people do it, but that doesn’t make it acceptable. You know what I’d think of someone who came on to the boards and complaining about how when they travel to Asia the people are all short and smell like rotten cabbage? Not much. And I don’t feel much differently about your post.
Have you ever known an overweight person? I work with several. I’m honestly surprised but happy to say I don’t even see their weight anymore. It doesn’t matter becuase they’re not obsessed with their size, and they’re brilliant and good at their jobs. Who gives a rip about their size?
“Silently despising…divorce…could address with a little more effort…find fault…dislike”; for heaven’s sake, can’t you see your own hostility and arrogance? Do you honestly think your wife doesn’t know what you think of her, and how you feel about her?
You’ve expressed your contempt and dislike for her large body; is she equally free to blast back her dissatisfaction with the smallness of your heart and mind? Ever consider that maybe, just maybe, you’re part of her problem? Just reading your ugly sentiments toward someone you claimed you’d love in sickness and in health, it wouldn’t suprise me one bit if she turned to food for the comfort and nurturing she should have been able to get from you.
People starve in all kinds of ways.
Reading what you’ve written about her here revolts me. And the revulsion isn’t about her exterior appearance, it’s over what you’ve revealed about your interior landscape.
For other reference you should check out a Nova special about “Dying to be Thin” you think it’s about thin but check out this front page:
If you peruse that enough you’ll find it isn’t about thin it’s because “fat” has been so vilified that fat is almost equated with evil itself. There are people who would rather be DEAD than fat all because the American media has vilified fat… And yet the American media also holds up fatty foods as the ultimate “indulgence”. You go figure the mixed message. It’s the sickest thing I’ve ever seen…
Also, you might want to check out a Frontline episode about fat:
I think after all the above, if you really read them and get a grip on what’s going on you would NEVER vilify another fat person just because they are fat. FWIW there are a lot of drugs that cause a build up of fat and there are a lot of reasons as to WHY people are fat.
To vilify them, hate them, abuse them because of “fat” is about as seemly (as kellibelli pointed out) as vilifying someone because they have a different skin color… frankly, I DO find it as blatant and as unacceptable as racism. It’s basing an opinion, a prejudice, on appearance. Walk a mile, hon, walk a mile.
FWIW I think most regular posters already know about me. I’m a big lady. I’m 200# at 5’9" and I lift weights and run about three miles a day… I don’t know anyone who would call me fat to my face.
I doubt most know that I fight a life time of food abuse; I was anorexic from 14-19 and weighed at best 120; my sister put it best when she said I looked like a skeleton with skin… and then I ballooned up to 250 when my brother died. His death, the hole it left in my life, shit, I tried to stuff that hole with food.
It was sick, abused, twisted… you can say it was all my own fault, yeah, it was, but I was out of control and couldn’t find anything else to stuff that hole with. Would you give me more empathy if I would have stuffed that hole with drugs, sex or alcohol? Would it matter to you if you knew I tried to stuff it with those things but didn’t find them as ultimately satisfying as food? Does that make me a lesser person somehow? I don’t think so but to you… maybe…
I just couldn’t take being anorexic anymore… and now… after stuffing myself, finding that didn’t “feed” the need I found out it was stress. THAT was what I needed to work out. Well, now I’m “normal” for me. I started taking that stress and punching out a bag, running till I cried and now… To you and to some, I STILL might be too big but really, to me, I’m so where I should be. I’m at the size I should have been all along. I’m at the size that is healthy for me. Sure, yeah, I’m big, broad… I’m what you might have called Rubenesque at one point… but no. Guys like you would call me a “fat ass” because I’m not thirty pounds underweight for my height. But hon, there are guys who would fight you on that. They think I’m sexy and hot and all that… I’m not just a body to be judged… I’m a woman with feelings and thoughts and worth beyond what you perceive…
I’m a 200# lady that could twirl you and not raise her heart rate. But you aren’t worth it. I’d rather educate you. I’d rather get you to walk a mile and get a heart… I really hope I have.
P.S. Come take a run with me… it’ll be fun! Sure, I’ll kick your ass but you’ll be smiling after I’m done with you!
Well, you know this is the BBQ Pit so I felt the need to be a little nasty and gussy up the post; besides, my fault is not using PC or “sensenitive” language.
O Wise Ones of the Heart and Mind of Armchair Psychology:
You’ve unmasked me as a villain. :eek: So what so I do now? If keeping quite about it and to trying to point her in the right direction now and then isn’t the right thing to do, than what is? Change my mind and believe obesity is hokey-dokey? Enroll in an gushy-gushy sensitivity training class? Learn PC language skills? Slash and burn that revolting interior landscape of mine? :rolleyes:
Maybe I’ll just use webmastr approach and vomit next time I see her.
