FEAR ME: I'm a Jew! or *sigh* WB strikes again

[Captain_Amazing]

*Originally posted by Wildest Bill *
**
I got you but is that backed up by scripture somewhere? Or is it just part of the Jewish religion? For example: Baptist don’t believe in drinking or dancing but there is no such thing in the Bible. They have that rule just so people will not abuse those to things to the extreme. See what I am saying? **

Check out Deut. 6, the entire chapter, for a pretty good summary of Jewish feelings on the matter.

[Wildest_Bill]

Thanks Captain. I see the verse that is in question Deut 6:4 that means there is only one God but it doesn’t really say He is undividable(sp). To Christians this means not to worship any other gods besides the true God and to Jews it means the same thing and also they think that makes him undividable. Do I have this right?

[bdgr]

Is there an official polycarp fan club I could join?

[Fenris]

*Originally posted by Polycarp *
Okay, the idea that Fenris, Bill, and I “do not worship the same God” has got me upset. I see both sides of the story, but neither is founded on anything close to the orthodox Christian doctrine of the Trinity.

If I’ve said anything that offended or upset you Poly, let me apologize. If I’ve mischaracterized your beliefs (or Christian beliefs in general) it was due to honest misunderstanding of doctrine than due to malice.
**

To start with, the God(s, if you insist) that Christians and Jews worship is considered to be beyond total human comprehension. All we can do is attempt to structure accurate concepts about Him.

The Sh’ma is clearly the basis for any such discussion. Whoever He is, He is Lord, and He is One.

However, from the first He is given characteristics: His Spirit broods over the face of the waters in Genesis 1:4 or so. His Spirit is sent forth as creative power in Psalm 104. His Word is the creative force – He speaks, and things come to be. (Did you realize you lived in a voice-activated universe? ;)) His Lovingkindness (chesed) is sweeter than honey, according to one of the Psalms. His Wisdom is this, that, and the other thing in Proverbs. In poetic language, several of these characteristics get personified. Needless to say, this is not setting them up as separate gods, but as the aspects of One God spoken of in personal terms.**

Fair enough.

**

Now take John Doe, typical American suburbanite. His mother is in the nursing home, and he attempts to do what she wishes (at least when she’s clear of mind). His 3.2 children are in middle school (except the .2 child, who is in a special-needs program due to its disability), and he tries to be a good father to them. And, of course, he tries to be a loving husband to his wife. And, of course, often he’s called on to be all these things simultaneously.

Yet John Doe is certainly a single individual. He’s functioning in multiple roles.**

Here’s where I’m confused. I thought that the idea that God had a (to use Heinlein’s terms from Job) a “Jesus hat”, a “Father hat” and a “Holy Spirit hat” was a big-time heresy. I mean, at the same level of heresy as Manichaeanism.

My understanding was that the Father was one full, seperate and distinct person. Jesus was another complete seperate and distinct person and the Holy Spirit was a third. And somehow they were three whole people AND one whole person at the same time. (The Bible Answer-man is big on this POV on his radio show.)

Anyway, thanks for the informative post Poly!

Fenris

[Esprix]

Originally posted by gobear

… and the humble bagel with cream cheese.

… which I’m eating right now.

{blesses bread with proper Jewish prayer, sung}

(I knew having a Jewish director for our production of “Godspell” would pay off! )

Esprix

[Guinastasia]

Dammit, I just want some potatoe pancakes-is THAT too much to ask?

Oh shit, I typed to ass, instead of ask!!! Oy vey!

;j

[Bricker]

*Originally posted by Wildest Bill *
**

*Originally posted by Fenris *

The “undivided God” (often referred to as Yaweh) is the OT God. The one who spoke through the burning bush, the one who parted the Red Sea. That guy. We’re talking about the same “character” in the stories, but we see Him differently. You guys see him as “the Father”, an aspect of God, we see Him as “indivisble”.
**

I got you but is that backed up by scripture somewhere? Or is it just part of the Jewish religion? For example: Baptist don’t believe in drinking or dancing but there is no such thing in the Bible. They have that rule just so people will not abuse those to things to the extreme. See what I am saying? **

There’s quite a bit in Jewish practice that isn’t directly found in Scripture - but all of it is said to derive from Scripture.

For instance, in three separate instances, the Old Testament commands us not to “boil a kid in its mother’s milk.” (Ex. 23:19; Ex. 34:26; Deut. 14:21).

One could argue that observing this rule merely means not cooking the meat of a calf in the milk of it’s mother – and when you think about it, doing that is pretty repulsive. Still, that’s not the reason for the rule – in fact, it has no reason. Commandments (mitzvah like this are chukkim - rules obeyed because God commands it, not because of an external compelling reason.

But how can you be sure that a slatternly housemaid has not, for example, failed to fully clean the dishes, and left bits of yesterday’s meat from baby calf in the cracks of the plate? If that happened, then today’s meal that has mama cow’s milk in it would be mixed with her son’s flesh by accident.

One way to be sure is to “build a fence around the commandment.” We can mandate two separate sets of dishes - one for meat products, one for milk products. The Bible doesn’t say that this must be done… but if you do it, you pretty well ensure that you’ll never run afoul of that commandment.

So today, observant Jews have two sets of dishes - even though you could argue that today, the chances of milk and meat being from the same family of cows is vanishingly small.

This is an example of a rule not being found specifically in the Bible, but deriving from the rules therein.

Hope it helps.

• Rick

[John_Corrado]

[Mod Hat: ON]

Okay, getting to the end, the everlovin’ end, of page 5.

Therefore, I’ll be closing down this thread, and we’ll start anew in:

FEAR ME: I’m a Jew! or sigh WB strikes again (Exodus)

Please continue your discussions, diatribes, and arguments in that thread. Thank you.

[Mod Hat: OFF]