What the . . .?
What on earth did I do to piss you off? I’m sorry if you felt I was correcting you, or whatever.
I guess I shouldn’t have mentioned your name at all. It was Fenris I was picking nits with, really.
As I said, if it’s Billy who’s making you upset, take it out on him.
You didn’t piss me off, it just gets frustrating when you try to explain stuff about Jews, as a Jew, and you get a dictionary definition in response. Who ya’ gonna belive?
A Jew or a dictionary published 9 years ago.
;j
Oddly enough, I have the phrase “FEAR ME: I’m a Jew!” tattooed on my penis.
Gotcha.
But near as I can tell, you and I have not disagreed about anything. The dictionary definition was to further explain my point that the word does have two different meanings, that’s all.
Shalom.
MISS, I had my ass handed to me here on the Board (though this was months, no, years ago now – Jeez, I’ve been here a while) for saying that since Judaism was a religious choice, no Jew could tell anyone else that they are Jewish (by birth, mother a Jew) even if such people affirmatively disavow it. In other words, I posited that Judaism was “just” a religion and not a race, only to be told in no uncertain terms that it was an ethnicity very akin to (though not the same as) a race as well, and could no more be disavowed than race can. I’m still not sure I agree with this, but I do understand that is the Jewish religious and ethnic party line. (As always, I await correction by those who surely know better than I do.)
In light of that spanking, however, I’m going to go with trusting the dictionary defintion.
Well, of course “Jew” doesn’t exactly refer to religion. I mean, the Nazis didn’t care if you went to temple or not. And there are plenty of Jews who don’t believe in God and happily eat bacon cheeseburgers.
In our modern pluralisic society we sometimes forget that ethnicity, language, religion, and political affiliation used to be all mixed up together. The idea that they could be separated is a modern invention.
No offence, but I’d go with “published and respected reference work” over “somebody I ran into on the internet.”
Let’s not get into the whole Judaism: race or religion debate, again, please. It’s already been been hashed out.
Cap’n: And we certainly don’t want to get into Israel’s whole “Who is a Jew?” question, I bet.
I would agree about trying not to get into the religion/race debate again. I am Jewish. I’m not sure if I believe in G-d, I do not go to synagogue, but I am Jewish nonetheless. Let’s just let everyone decide for themselves, 'kay?
Now… about WB…
heavy sigh Just when you think it can’t get any worse…
Well, then I’m a-gonna haveta pick back then! 
As I just recently said here: I hate this debate. (but somehow this doesn’t stop me from jumping in with both feet)
It never goes anywhere (and that’s not intended as an insult, andros, but…)
Yes. I will conceed that the dictionary does define Jew as both ethinicity and religion. And I understand that the dicitonary doesn’t define words, it reports useages (ie: There’s no sinister cabal of lexographers dreaming up new definitions) but…
Jew as an ethnicity is meaningless. It’s primarily used by
four main groups.
A) anti-Semites who are trying to pretend that there’s a genetic difference between Jews and “real men” (Miss Creant’s “horn and tails” comment referred to this.) Nazis were also big on this useage. (Not a Godwin’s Law reference! I wasn’t calling nobody nuthin’! )
B) Non-religous people from Jewish families using the word to describe their background. They have the right to use the word Jew, but I don’t agree with them. They don’t agree with me. Both sides annoy each other, in a more-or-less family-like way. 
C) Phoney counterfits like “Jews” for Jesus, claiming that they’re real (“fulfilled”) Jews, the rest of us being just “ethnic” Jews.
D) Otherwise well-meaning people who don’t know better.
There are other reasons the term is used, but in my experience, the vast majority of people using the term “ethnic Jew” fall into one of the above catagories.
To me, of the four arguments I listed, only B “My parents were Jewish, and so I’m a Jew, but an athiest one” has any legitimacy to me, but this (ongoing) arguement feels (to me)like what vegetarians must go through:
“I’m a vegetarian. I eat vegetables, and I only eat fish sometimes.”
“Fish isn’t a vegetable. You’re someone who eats a lot of vegetables.”
“I am so. I’m mostly vegetarian.”
“No you’re not. It’s an either-or proposition.”
“Besides, fish are cold and slimy and icky, so it’s ok”
::vegetarian kills him/herself::
I understand that non-practicing people of Jewish background feel that people on my side of the argument are being equally…um…hardheaded?
In any event, really, look at the definition you listed:
“A member of the widely dispersed people originally descended from the ancient Hebrews and sharing an ethnic heritage based on Judaism.”
Widely diverse people sharing an ethnic heritage…either “ethinic heritage” means “religion” or it’s a meanless term. What “ethinic heritage” other than religion does a Jew from Yemen share with a Jewish Israeli soldier or my converted-Jewish, Scottish, cowgirl sister-in-law? Not skin color, not history, not line-of-descent. Only religion.
Fenris
Um. Outside of having to do with Jews, that link I posted has nothing to do with the ethnic/religous Jew debate.
Nothing.
Obviously, I’m going insane.
::thinks hard::
But wait! It talks about how annoying the Jews=Good Businessmen stereotype is (in passing).
That was my real reason for posting it.
Right?
Right!
[sub]Are they buying this?[/sub]
Fenris
[sub]I don’t think so.
You’re a Jew, Fenris, you oughta be smarter than that. I mean, you’re a brilliant businessman and diamond-trader extraordinaire, right? If you don’t shape up, we might just hafta kick your sorry butt outta the Tribe! Consider yourself warned.[/sub]
Shalom, my little boobala. <pinches Fenris’ cheek>
I really appreciate your consideration in avoiding stepping on my penis - Spiny Norman
Jeg elsker dig, Thomas
If I had even one tenth of one tenth of one percent of the money and power my fellow Jews are said to have, I’d be a prosperous woman indeed.
:MsRobyn fixes herself a bacon cheeseburger for dinner::
Robin
I wonder if Bill still thinks all Irish Catholics have about ten kids, drink Guiness for breakfast and have red hair.
If it’ll get me Guiness for breakfast, I’ll gladly convert to Irish!
and I can only imagine his take on people of Italian decent.
I hope he doesn’t get HBO
If you are admitted agnostic and born in the US you are not Jewish. You are American. My heritage is Irish but that won’t get me shit in Ireland.
So, did we decide? I know I’m supposedly somewhere between Catholic and Lutheran, but if Htlr came back into power it’d be off to the camps for ol’ drop. And I’ve been circumcized. Am I or ain’t I?
Thank you so much for clearing that up for me. All this time (silly me) I thought I was Jewish and Canadian!
Fuck you for telling me factually what I am without even knowing me. Now, I’m curious. What country would I have to be born in to be considered a Jew?