Feeling depressed about dating fails. Obviously I'm doing something wrong, but not sure what it is.

In My Humble Opinion
121

I’m going to make an observation here. There’s a reason it’s really hard to meet guys: all the ones you actually want to date were snapped up in college, or immediately afterwards.

I’m 30. I’ve been with my now-wife since 2004, just after we graduated. We got married in 2010, and when I looked at the guest list something jumped out at me: there were no single men at our wedding. When I say “none”, I mean that quite literally. We had 125 guests, of which at least two thirds were people our parents didn’t make us invite. Not one of them was a single guy. It’s not as though I don’t have male friends. I was in a fraternity in college, and I’m on great terms with nearly all the other members. It’s just that all of my college friends were married, engaged, or about to be.

Granted, I have virtually no wedding-close male friends outside my fraternity, but there’s nothing about being in a frat that makes you want to get married. If anything, it hardens you against long term relationships. Let me put it this way, though: the male friends who weren’t invited to my wedding weren’t invited for the same sort of reason that nobody in their right mind would date them. That is to say, I have single male friends, and in each case there is a good reason why they’re single.

My wife’s female friends are mostly the girls she lived with in the dorms during her freshman year. Most of them are quite attractive. Virtually none of them are in a relationship. Those that are tend to be the ones who picked up a guy before they (both) were 25.

I’m close to most of them, and I get asked for guy advice frequently.* Like I said, they’re all attractive. It’s not like nobody wants to go out with them. One had 29 messages on PlentyOfFish within five minutes of posting her first picture. It’s just that all the guys who want to go out with them are idiots. One guy - otherwise a seemingly smart kid with an MBA - said he was going to quit his job to work for himself writing iPhone apps. Here’s the thing: he had no experience with programming. That’s not an outlier; it’s about the average level of stupidity their dates display. I’ll add that most of these girls are primarily meeting dates online.

When I think back to how I used to meet girls, I think I see the problem. I’m decent-looking, and I had the balls of a concrete elephant when I was 21. Having said that, I went on exactly one date with a girl I met in a bar, grocery store, or whatever. All my successful dates were friends-of-friends or girls I was introduced to at parties (that’s how I met my wife). So if I was in the dating pool today, with a shrinking number of friends who go to parties or have the energy to play matchmaker (and have actual single friends to introduce to each other), I’m not sure how I’d fare. Badly, I imagine. The same is probably true of all those guys who are still single at 30. Maybe you meet someone when you start a new job - assuming you don’t have a rule against dating co-workers - but otherwise you’re stuck with the shrinking group of single friends-of-friends.

So, yeah. If you didn’t meet your guy in college, abandon all hope now. No, that’s not it. Go back to school! No, that’s not it either - all your classmates will be women anyway. I’m not sure what you’re supposed to take from this. Maybe take comfort in the fact that it’s not just you.

“Activity” first dates are ideal, but they’re for people you already know aren’t psychopaths or PETA board members or militia commanders or whatever. People you meet online are likely to be one or more of those things, so your first date should be one you can escape.

122

I don’t think that’s true at all. I think that people who have freshly graduated from college are still new to the world and have a lot of learning to do. I know I did. If I’d married right out of college, by now I would be a haggard old married woman with two kids and wondering why I don’t seem to have anything in common anymore with this guy I thought was such a hottie in college.

It might take longer to find someone once you’re out of school, but there are plenty of guys out there who are still available.

And I shudder to think where I’d be now if I’d married the sort of guy who was my ideal in college compared what sort of guy is my ideal man now.

123

I think RNATB is half right. I’ve noticed a schism in friends. Group A met their gf’s/wives in college or within a year of graduating. Group B is single, or merely casually dating into their late 20’s. Group A is pretty much all wifey’d up or at least engaged. Group B is still out there “having fun”. Very little in between as far someone who met their GF 2-3 years out of college, dated seriously and is getting married at age 27-28.

So yeah, there’s a lull here. I don’t think all hope is lost though, or else it means that half of my friends (me included) is going to end up either alone or settling.

124

I love a good steak myself, but being a vegetarian isn’t exactly the same as being a leper. Gimme a break.

125

Quite the opposite. Everyone assumes vegetarian chicks are freaks (in the good way) and/or easy.

126

I’ve yet to find a good solid freaky vegetarian chick, and lord knows I’ve tried.

I’d love to have a vegetarian chick for dinner…I mean over for dinner.

127

I’ve found vegetarians to be control freaks, irrational, and consequently very stubborn. Other than that, I personally haven’t found any trends regarding how good their lovin is.

128

A good friend (guy, for the record) swears by the activity date. He’s a pretty fit guy, and likes to do something athletic. Find some acitivities you like to do and try that out, if the date is revolving around just conversation, then it becomes a less-pressured environment to make conversation.

129

Classes are easy to find for almost any activity, and they are easy ways to talk to people. So just google activity+class+your city and you should find some. Or look at your local colleges or community colleges, and there will sometimes be some classes or workshops on various things that could be fun.

Other than that, looking at the listings in your local alternative newspaper is a good way to find events. And a lot of decent size museums seem to have mixers.

I think the activity date is because people take a little time to warm up to each other, and don’t always make ideal first impressions. Someone might be too awkward on a first date over coffee and never get called again. But if they went on a date to do miniature golf or some other activity, then they’d be more relaxed and not as nervous and awkward and make a better first impression. Then if they went on a second date to get coffee they’d be able to talk more easily.

130

The only people I know that got married right out of college were homebodies and Mormons. I don’t think I went to a single wedding until I turned 30, at which point they started happening every weekend. I would imagine a lot of this is specific to a person’s particular social set (career focused? Geographically mobile?)

I do agree, however, that the mid-20s is an awkward time for dating. The people who are really in to settling down have done so, and the bulk of the rest are probably going to be fairly self-focused (personal growth, travel, career, etc.) until they finally decide they want kids. You are also between social groups. The college-based networks you were part of are starting to scatter, but you haven’t had much time to build professional and interest-based networks, and people haven’t started flocking tot he dating websites (they will!)

Still, odds don’t mean much. It’s not like there is a shortage of single guys out there. Single guys are myriad, and the more you meet, the more likely you are to find one you hit it off with.

131

I am not advising anyone to get married out of college (I’m not sure I’m advising anyone of anything). I’m just saying that most desirable male mates seem to end up marrying women they dated during or slightly after college.

132

Not at all in my experience. I can think of maybe 6 couples out of a couple hundred of friends and acquaintances that married their college sweethearts or first significant others out of college. It probably has something to do with the fact that I come from a group of friends who tend to get married later in life.

133

As said, the purpose of the first date is to get to know each other. So, in that vein, I approve of these sort of things. If you think this is a good idea, I want to know about it earlier rather than later, ideally early enough that I can mention to the waiter that I’ll be taking my order to go.

134

Look guys, where does it say that the onus of making conversation in a date should be all on the woman? It takes two to make a conversation, you know. So, if your date is playing the “strong, silent Englishman” type (irrespective of nationality), then you have one of the two choices – you can shut up and put up, or you can leave. Leave, and you may be rudely snubbing a potentially nice someone who is just socially awkward. Stay, and you may putting up with someone who is just plain rude. So take middle path – stay, but on your own terms. Have some fun, do something to amuse yourself. After all is said and done, the one person who will go thru life with you is yourself, and at the end, only the number of happy memories count. So treat yourself kindly, and treat your date with a good dose of humour. You might yet have a nice memory of that meeting, if nothing else. Geddit?

135

All the desirable men are married straight after college? That’s ridiculous. Maybe that was true in the 1950s, but now I feel like the only people who are married straight out of college are either really religious or from out in the boonies.

So all the single men who aren’t married by age 22 must have something wrong with them? Does it mean that the women who didn’t get married in college are also undesirable? What about men and women who want to hold off until they’re done with grad school, or people who simply didn’t find a partner who was right for them in college? It doesn’t mean you’re a some kind of flawed human just because you didn’t find your life partner in college. My graduating class only had 1500 people. If half of them were guys, that’s a pretty small pool for me to have chosen from compared to say, the entire rest of the world.

It’s true, it’s easier to meet people in college, but getting married right out of college seems to be jumping the gun to me. Most of my friends all seem to have gotten married in their late 20s or early 30s. And for what it’s worth, my husband is a super-hottie neuroscientist. We didn’t meet until well after college. He didn’t marry in college because he was kind of shy back then and didn’t date much. He also grew up to be extremely hot, but he was a late bloomer. You wouldn’t have guessed that he’d one day be really handsome if you looked at his pictures from college.

To the OP, I think that yes, the guy who gave monosyllabic responses to your attempts at conversation was boring and there’s nothing wrong with you saying so. It’s hard when your friends are all getting married right out of college, but watch how half of them will be divorced before they hit 30. I know that 24 doesn’t seem so young when you actually are 24, but no worries- you have plenty of time and there are still a lot of guys out there. It just takes some time (and also being proactive and getting out there and trying to meet people). And finally, if some guy thought that using “fail” instead of “failure” as an idiomatic expression is a deal-breaker, I would run. He’s probably too old, anyway.

136

Well, if someone is uncomfortable talking to people or hasn’t come fully to grips with what is going on with dating and relationships, they have something to learn. Once you have the gift of gab, yeah, sincerity becomes an issue. Why be a PUA though? If you just wanna get laid, just say so.

Past that, someone who is clued-in still may be awkward, or maybe they just aren’t happy. Being content with things is kind of a skill too. I mean, would you rather date a happy person or a sad person? I tried dating a supermodel-looking young yoga enthusiast with a Master’s degree and a good job who liked to go on hikes in the mountains. However, she wanted an avalanche to strike and end it all without her having to do it herself (she wasn’t trying to get rid of me, she approached me). Well, I had to move on. Nearly everyone else I have dated has been less fortunate yet far more happy.

And don’t listen to Brain Glutton about dating after 30. I was in LTRs in my 20s but had to skedaddle. Wow, I really had a great time dating in my 30s. Wouldn’t trade it for anything (except maybe a few less duds).

Be happy, love life, quit moping around. Grab the bull by the horns and kick the world’s ass even when you’re by yourself. That is more attractive than looks and will draw people in.

137

Seriously. I do believe there is an age after which a good deal of the desirable ones are scooped up, but it certainly isn’t 22. Not unless you’re some religious nut or live on East Asscheek, Nowhere. Young people in cities are not all pairing off on their graduation date. That’s is, indeed, ridiculous.

138

While RNATB may have said “most,” he certainly didn’t say “all.” Moreover, when I made the original point, I said “many” and did not venture so far as to say “most” on purpose. It should generally be obvious that quality mates are in shorter supply the older your dating pool becomes.

Either way, both you and Turpentine are putting words into RNATB’s mouth that he didn’t say.

139

I was going to stick up for myself but C & B put it rather more neatly than I would have.

140

I’ll think of this. I used to be part of a group called College Group at the Met (Metropolitan Museum of Art). Obviously I can’t be a member now, but there must be something similar for adults out there.

I agree with all this. I only know one person who married and it was some combination marrying for citizen ship and getting pregnant. They are now separated. I agree with the rest of your assessment of dating in the mid 20s. I feel like everyone’s a bit lost in their own way.

I’m going to respectfully disagree with the fact that my vegetarianism is the problem. I think the above statement is a gross over generalization or perhaps comes from not knowing many vegetarians.

For the record, I don’t care if the guy I meet eats meat. I’m looking for a date, not to convert anyone.