It is true that nobody’s said that, and Ivan is both an idiot and a liar.
No, of course not all Palestinians are evil or what have you. Ivan is just engaging in the traditional dodge that, once an anti-Israel person is positively identified as being a racist against Jews or a bigot against Israel, the claim must be made that nobody, ever, can criticize anything about Israel at all, or they’ll be called an anti-Semite.
As it is, yes, some of Israel’s enemies are Jew-haters, and yes, they do announce their genocidal views. And yes, although certain dishonest Israel-bashers claim that it’s all in the context of “anti-Zionism not anti-Semitism!” some of the folks they’re defending are, indeed, quite clear on being able to differentiate between Jews and Israel, and hating both separately…
And, while we are both in the same room together, take a good look — one of us has a distinguished, almost regal kind of username and the other has numbers in his.
Yes, I’m the poster who is “participating” in this thread without being a boring blowhard. Note that my critique does not only extend to the wonderfully majestic but oddly capitalization-impaired soul quoted above.
It’s kinda gotten old, Ivy needs to step up his game.
He could probably save himself some effort and just use some sort of macro that’ll search my posts to see if I’ve pointed out that anybody’s lying or being utterly retarded, and then cut and paste: “I’m poking you with a stick now, I’m poking you with a stick now! Am I bothering you yet, am I bothering you yet? I’m poking you with a stick now…”
Haha. The problem, FinnyAgainAndAgainAndAgain is that you are such a boor that nothing actually penetrates. My goal is not to bother you, because you are constitutionally incapable of understanding just how rote and staid your posting style is.
I’m just here to take in some amusement and hopefully prevent others from emulating your wall-of-texts-about-stupid-liars-and-poor-cites-that-you-claim-are-fact style.
I guess I just get easily bored of people that are utterly incapable of considering someone else’s opinion and, when faced with someone that disagrees with them, just degenerates into a child shouting “liar” and “idiot”.
Which is why I don’t bother discussing anything with you anymore. You’re the Straight Dope equivalent of the drunkard on the train ranting away that everyone tries to ignore.
I’s funny that so many of you have adopted this tactic… one that consists of not telling the truth coupled with a palpably unintelligent dodge, while, in the exact same breath, fretting and moaning over how I point out things that aren’t true and fucking stupid. In other words, a lot of you seem to like lying and being stupid about it how you go about lying, and then crow that, ah-hah, someone has pointed out that you’re being stupid, and lying! Be like me saying “Amanset claimed that the British were genetically superior to everybody on Earth and that they’re descended from the gods of Olympus, and he calls everybody stupid and a liar! Just watch, I bet he’s about to disagree with my claim here!”
Take, for instance, your stupid and false claim that I am unable of considering anybody else’s opinion. Were you honest, what you’d really say is “It upsets me that you will not just accept what I say as true!” *But you’re not honest. Simple common sense should tell you that of course I consider people’s opinions, that why I respond to them in detail describing all the ways in which I disagree. * So not only is your claim untrue, but in order to make it you need to evince a significant lack of intellect. And, of course, you’re a Janus faced fool as it’s not like you’ve ever said “gee, Finn’s right!” which I guess means that you never “consider my opinion”, or whatever.
Besides, what kind of stupidity, exactly, are you peddling? Someone who’s spent their time studying an issue and has formulated their own view needs to while talking to people who can’t even get their facts straight, totally re-evaluate their positions? It’s like someone who has a view on the United States’ War of Independence, and someone else claims that the British had deathrays and BBQ’d babies for the officers’ breakfasts. You’re not exactly going to change anybody’s mind.
Of course, I know you didn’t have the originality to come up with this specific lie being used here, or the intellect not to repeat it (I know, I know, you folks keep lying stupidly and I have the nerve to point it out, how horrible I am!). Anybody who checks GD can see that, what I actually do is argue the facts and the logic of a position. When folks dishonestly pit me, like the OP, or make false to facts, and idiotic claims (like you, wm, etc…) I point that out. Common sense (again, something you seem to lack) would tend to show that I’m not allowed to point out when you fuckers lie in GD or to point out when you’re being absolute morons.
I do find it fascinating though that none of you seem to have the grey matter to realize how transparent your tactic is. You say something about me that’s obviously false and easily debunked, and before I even respond, you hop up on the cross and complain that I’m about to point out that you were lying, and using such a simple lie is stupid. Do you think that’s effective? That if you lie about me stupidly, but then complain that I point out stupid liars, that I’ll go “Gee amanset, what you’re saying is obviously false but your clever ruse has left me undone. I guess I’ll agree so as not to bear that shame of pointing out an obvious lie. Oh, woe ie me, I am undone by such clever stratagems!”
I mean, here’s a thought, why don’t you try not being stupid and not lying rather than lying and then crying when it’s pointed out that it was a pretty stupid thing to do? Is it just a bandwagon thing and you’re unable to come up with your own little meme here, or is it a trolling thing and you figure it’d be funny to lie about me while, simultaneously, complain about how I point out when people are lying? Honestly, I’m curious, what’s going through your head (if anything) when you use an obvious lie that’s wielded like an idiot jamming a fork into an electrical outlet, and then whine that, gee, the target of your lie is probably going to point it out?
Here, let me give you an example:
You spent quite a bit of the thread that spawned this, doing just that. Remember, you were the one arguing that it was fine for the British to capture Jews (sometimes in international waters) and put them into concentration camps behind barbed wire. Remember?
See, the fact isn’t that you and your little crowd are upset because you’re so smart and factually accurate and I’m unfairly arguing with you, it’s that you’re generally ignorant and full of shit, and I point that out.
Otherwise, instead of making shit up to whine about how unfair I am to you… your post here would’ve been a refutation of my claims and would show how I’ve actually conducted myself wrongly. Instead all you can do is cry and blubber about how your inability to convince me is a character flaw on my part, and your propensity to rely on untruths is horrible because I’ll point it out.
For fuck’s sake, at least change up the dance tune, this record has gotten old.
I’d have let it go because you’re not worth it, but I have to defend that as, to use the sort of phrase you seem to like, that is a complete and utter lie. A distortion of the truth in a way that’d make Fox New proud.
I said that I had no problem with the use of ex-concentration camps to house people that’d just been freed in the middle of a warzone until someone could do anything about them, seeing as building proper lodgings was beyond impractical in the timescale required and leaving them to fend for themselves was just as bad.
And in your diseased mind that becomes “arguing that it was fine for the British to capture Jews (sometimes in international waters) and put them into concentration camps behind barbed wire”.
I think that tells everyone exactly why we’ve ended up with this thread.
See, yet again, when you are caught in a lie, why compound it? Why not just admit it gracefully? Especially when I can link to the relevant posts? Why do you do this to yourself? I mean, it’s disgusting enough that you supported the British capturing Jews and imprisoning them for years after there was any reason to, and euphemistically called capturing Jews and putting them behind barbed wire and snipers to be “housing” them, but now you’re stupid enough to defend your behavior rather than just slink away?
When it was pointed out to youthat after WW II, the British had a policy of forcibly interning Jews in concentrate camps, against the Jews’ will, behind barbed wire and snipers, you rather stupidly defended that atrocity with idiocy about how, gee, of course the British needed to imprison Jews in barbed wire enclosed concentration camps I mean, it wasn’t like there was an entire region whose inhabitants were actively inviting the Jews in, or anything. Nope, imprisonment in concentration camps for the lot of them! there just wasn’t a lot of usable real estate in Europe!
You actually had the nerve to call imprisoning victims of the Holocaust, behind barbed wire and snipers, to be “housing them.” Seriously, anybody can check on the link to see that I’m not making that up.
I then pointed out that, far from it being the only position open to the British, the Jews living in Palestine, on land that they owned and had bought from its rightful owners, offered safe haven to the refugees fleeing Germany and the survivors of the death-camps. And that, quite aside from the British simply ‘housing’ the Jews they captured in barbed wire and sniper-ringed concentration camps. they went as far as to engage in piracy on the high seas in order to capture Jews and then put them in concentration camps behind barbed wire and snipers. (But it was okay! Those were holocaust survivors who were trying to escape to Israel, obviously the British were only right to seize the ship in international waters, murder a few of the crew by beating them to death, and then put the Holocaust survivors into a concentration camp. )
Again, after capturing a ship in international waters and murdering three people in order to take it over, this is where the British ‘housed’ their Jewish prisoners. And why? Because the British were arming (and some would go on to lead) the Arab powers, and were doing their best to disarm the Jews and prevent them from having a chance to defend themselves come the war of annihilation that the Arab powers launched. That the British had originally promised all of Israel and Transjordan as a Jewish Home, reneged on that promise, and then under Arab pressure issued the series of White Papers all but eliminating Jewish immigration to the region while allowing Arab populations to keep climbing.
Again, in point of fact, Johnson was so disgusted with the British that he convinced them to engage in a joint fact-finding mission to see what should be done with the Jews who were imprisoned after the war. They ignored the reports findings.
This is the kind of atrocity you are defending, because you are scum.
And you have the nerve to claim I’ve somehow perverted your argument… when you’re already a moral-pervert.
You’re also lying about your reason for not continuing your defense of the British policy of capturing Jews and sticking them in concentration camps.As you clearly admitted, it was because you didn’t want to risk drawing another warning.
So, yes, you argued for the British being right in imprisoning Jews behind barbed wire and snipers, for years, instead of simply letting them immigrate to the Jews, on land that the Jews owned, when the Jews were inviting them in. And the British were doing that due to Arab pressure, while the British would go on to arm and consider activating mutual defense pacts with the Arab nations, and many British officers actually resigned their commissions so they could help lead the war of annihilation against the Jews.
Faced with all this, all you can do is complain and cringe about how your argument was filled, filled to the brim you say, with the milk of human kindness.
So, to check on your lie, did you in fact argue that it was fine for the British to capture Jews (sometimes in international waters) and put them into concentration camps behind barbed wire, and did you in fact euphemistically refer to that policy of imprisonment as “housing” the Jews? Yes, yes you did. It’s funny, you support the British policy of the time period of capturing Jews and imprisoning them in concentration camps, and you claim that my mind is diseased. Tell us, again, how the brave, valiant British had to imprison orphaned Holocaust surviving children and those who object have diseased minds. Tell us all about how the British had no choice but to imprison tens of thousands of Holocaust survivors, because, gee, then they’d have to ‘fend for themselves’ and immigrate to Israel where they’d be welcomed and have homes. Far better to imprison them in concentration camps. Tell us again how the British were doing that for the Jews’ own good.
Please do.
FinnAgain’s wall o’ retarded texts are possibly the 8th wonder of the world. Now, I haven’t read any of them, I just admire the number of scrollwheel motions I have to make to get through them.
However, I did see several references to “lies” and such as I scrolled through (with rest breaks for my finger). I also like the tactic of citing one’s own posts as evidence. It’s clear that all of his posts are the same.
And, FinnAgainAndAgainAndAgainAndYetAgainThisGoesOnForAWhile, you are a liar too! And a war criminal who is stylistically rigid (a kind euphemism for “ploddingly dull”). Your walls of ridiculous lies and accusations would be, in any other poster, prime evidence of trollery. However, your frothing and sputtering and lack of ability to actually defend your points in any other way than simply repeating them over and over until everyone else gives up, combined with the prolificacy of your posts both in frequency and verbiage, leads me to the inescapable conclusion that you are some sort of idiotic savant, whose single-minded craziness can be likened to those such as Gene Ray, Fred Phelps, or the GOP. No troll of merely human ability could so convincingly and continuously project such a persona, never giving a hint or subtle clue that they are just pulling our leg. No, I am indeed convinced that you are batshit insane.
ETA: BTW quoting a wikipedia article as a cite? Meh. Quoting a wikipedia article on Jewish stuff penned by user “telaviv1”? Convincing!
Here’s a bit of history for you. After the anti-jewish Russian pogroms, jews who were already settled in Manchester advised against accepting jewish immigrants into the area, as they felt they would be a destabilising influence. How fucking right they were.
That was my last contribution to the discussion. This was because I received a warning that I disagreed with but knew that if I either continued in the thread or took up the case of the warning I would get into trouble. I even said this in one final post in the thread:
So please, oh enlightened one, tell me where I have lied.
Yawn
Of course the concentration camps had barbed wire. That’s how they (as in the Germans) built the fucking things.
So now they were supposed to move them all, overnight en masse, to Israel were they? Maybe you have never dealt with the logistics of such things, so I have to explain it to you. These things take planning. They take time. It doesn’t happen snaps fingers just like that. In the meantime they had to go somewhere. Do you have a better suggestion as to where they should have gone immediately?
But anyway, I didn’t hang around for your patronising “explanations” as, as I pointed out in the thread and have had to point out here again, I left the discussion.
I already cited what you said, and what it was in response to. You can lie and claim that isn’t not the context, but you’re not very convincing, especially when you just reiterated your claims here that you just said you didn’t actually make. You supported the British policy of capturing and imprisoning Jews behind barbed wire in concentration camps. That your quibble is merely that you said you supported the British policy but didn’t list the specifics is cowardly, even for a moral-pervert such as yourself. Likewise, I already linked to your bowing out of the thread because you feared getting another warning (that you don’t understand why you earned a warning for your lie about me being part of an “Israel can do no wrong brigade” just shows that you really are a moron.
Frankly I wish that such lies would get warnings all the time in GD, as I’m sick of trolling idiots like you being free to lie about me and flame me in GD threads, but ah well. Maybe that’ll happen one of these days and you’ll be forced to argue the facts rather than lying to flame me in GD. As for why you’re lying here, I thought I already pointed that out. You supported the British policy of capturing and interning Jews in concentration camps behind barbed wire, and now you’re pretending you didn’t. Your lie is the thinnest thing, as you’re pretty much saying that, yeah, you supported the policy as it war carried out but since you didn’t mention specifics, then you’ve got enough weasel room to wriggle. It’s like someone saying that they support the US prison system but it’s a damned calumny to claim that they support using bars on cells!
You filthy moral-pervert, your argument is that the British kept the Jews imprisoned behind barbed wire (and armed guards), for years because, gee, the Germans had used barbed wire! We all know that wire cutters are made of Unobtanium, too, and the British had no choice but to post snipers to keep the Jews in (behind the barbed wire that’s impossible to remove for years).
Likewise, your feigned stupidity isn’t convincing. The alternatives are not “imprison Jews or move them all en masse to Israel”. As pointed out to you already and you’re deliberately ignoring, the British were actively involved in capturing Jews who were making their own way, on their own power, and they were still captured by Britain and imprisoned. Rather dishonest of you to pretend that, gee, it was just that the British weren’t able to transport the Jews themselves, eh, you moral-pervert? Here’s a thought, idiot, the British could have taken down the barbed wire, not used snipers to keep the Jews in, and not captured Jews who tried to get into Israel and then imprisoned them behind barbed wire and armed guards, transporting them in trains with the windows barred and beating the shit out of them to get them to comply.
Just a thought.
Definite bonus point here though, you support capturing and imprisoning Jewish holocaust survivors behind barbed wire and armed guards, just after you claimed that it was a lie that you’d done any such thing. You are a piece of work.
What you wrote:
Sometimes, they were literally putting them back into concentration camps. The British were rather notorious for using Bergen Belsen itself to re-imprison Jewish refugees. Seriously. It was not unique that former concentration camps were used as displaced persons camps, sometimes with the survivors of the first camps imprisoned in the ‘new’ camps. Seriously. I don’t use the word ‘imprisoned’ lightly, many of the DP camps kept their inmates in via measures like armed guards and barbed wire. Seriously. This includes the British camp of Bergen Belsen.
My response:
In a country that had had the fuck bombed out of it, do you spend ages building new areas to house people or do you use what is there at the time?
On behalf of all British people, I apologise for not managing to build a small town’s worth of two up-two downs for the Jewish refugees in a matter of weeks (if not days) in the middle of a war zone. I admit, that is a complete and utter disgrace.
Again. Tell me where I am lying. Tell me exactly. Point it out.
Or shut the fuck up.
Tell me exactly what claims I have made. Then point out where I claimed I didn’t make them
Or shut the fuck up.
As you have been asked before, please tell us anything, ANYTHING, that you disagree with Israeli policy on. You have a history on this site of defending absolutely anything the Israeli authorities or military does, no matter how grotesque. You may not like it but you are a fully signed up member of the “Israel can do no wrong brigade”.
For the record, that warning was my first ever since I signed up in 1999. First in over a decade.
What specifics did I miss out? I support the policy of putting previously locked-up in concentration camps Jews in temporary housing - which includes said camps - until something can be done with them. Similar things go on today, with camps in countries where they process asylum seekers. All that is controversial is that it was the camps they had been kept in under the Nazi regime. That is unfortunate but as I said, there was no realistic chance of finding any other housing. Additionally, the fact that there were camps wasn’t the fucking problem under the Nazis. It was what the Nazis did to the people in those camps. The mistreatment, murder, experimentation and whatnot. Are you going to start claiming the British did that too? Frankly I wouldn’t put it past you.
Again, tell me where I have lied. It has now become “lies in GD”, so point me to the exact post in GD where I lied. Point out why it was a lie.
Or shut the fuck up.
I have made no comment whatsoever on the capturing of Jews. I have commented on finding housing for them whilst it is decided what to do with them.
Saying otherwise is itself a lie from you. Please stop it or … guess what … shut the fuck up.
What you wrote:
Sometimes, they were literally putting them back into concentration camps. The British were rather notorious for using Bergen Belsen itself to re-imprison Jewish refugees. Seriously. It was not unique that former concentration camps were used as displaced persons camps, sometimes with the survivors of the first camps imprisoned in the ‘new’ camps. Seriously. I don’t use the word ‘imprisoned’ lightly, many of the DP camps kept their inmates in via measures like armed guards and barbed wire. Seriously. This includes the British camp of Bergen Belsen.
My response:
In a country that had had the fuck bombed out of it, do you spend ages building new areas to house people or do you use what is there at the time?
On behalf of all British people, I apologise for not managing to build a small town’s worth of two up-two downs for the Jewish refugees in a matter of weeks (if not days) in the middle of a war zone. I admit, that is a complete and utter disgrace.
Again. Tell me where I am lying. Tell me exactly. Point it out.
Or shut the fuck up.
Tell me exactly what claims I have made. Then point out where I claimed I didn’t make them
Or shut the fuck up.
As you have been asked before, please tell us anything, ANYTHING, that you disagree with Israeli policy on. You have a history on this site of defending absolutely anything the Israeli authorities or military does, no matter how grotesque. You may not like it but you are a fully signed up member of the “Israel can do no wrong brigade”.
For the record, that warning was my first ever since I signed up in 1999. First in over a decade.
What specifics did I miss out? I support the policy of putting previously locked-up in concentration camps Jews in temporary housing - which includes said camps - until something can be done with them. Similar things go on today, with camps in countries where they process asylum seekers. All that is controversial is that it was the camps they had been kept in under the Nazi regime. That is unfortunate but as I said, there was no realistic chance of finding any other housing. Additionally, the fact that there were camps wasn’t the fucking problem under the Nazis. It was what the Nazis did to the people in those camps. The mistreatment, murder, experimentation and whatnot. Are you going to start claiming the British did that too? Frankly I wouldn’t put it past you.
Again, tell me where I have lied. It has now become “lies in GD”, so point me to the exact post in GD where I lied. Point out why it was a lie.
Or shut the fuck up.
I made a single comment and then left it. I’ve expanded it upon it here as clearly you are too thick to understand it (or what a lie actually is).
You see, two can play at this game. Reading what you have written anyone would get the impression that the Jews were kept in the very places they had been kept as prisoners. According to a bit of research on the web (including Wikipedia, they very mention of which will probably make you call me a liar, an idiot or both) they were kept in the barracks previously used by German Panzar divisions.
The camp including such evil things as a hospital and schools. There was even a religious school, showing that attempts were not made to stop the Jewish faith. There was even a newspaper.
In other words, this was nothing like the old Bergen-Belsen prison camp, no matter how much your own prejudices wish it was.
As I have said before, the camp was equivalent to modern camps for Asylum seekers and/or illegal immigrants. I await your anger in a thread here where you come out against the armed guards and measures to prevent escape and entry in those as well.
I’ve asked it before and I’ll ask it again:
Exactly what were the British supposed to do with the 60,000 prisoners they found in the camp when they liberated it?
What you wrote:
Sometimes, they were literally putting them back into concentration camps. The British were rather notorious for using Bergen Belsen itself to re-imprison Jewish refugees. Seriously. It was not unique that former concentration camps were used as displaced persons camps, sometimes with the survivors of the first camps imprisoned in the ‘new’ camps. Seriously. I don’t use the word ‘imprisoned’ lightly, many of the DP camps kept their inmates in via measures like armed guards and barbed wire. Seriously. This includes the British camp of Bergen Belsen.
My response:
In a country that had had the fuck bombed out of it, do you spend ages building new areas to house people or do you use what is there at the time?
On behalf of all British people, I apologise for not managing to build a small town’s worth of two up-two downs for the Jewish refugees in a matter of weeks (if not days) in the middle of a war zone. I admit, that is a complete and utter disgrace.
Again. Tell me where I am lying. Tell me exactly. Point it out.
Or shut the fuck up.
Tell me exactly what claims I have made. Then point out where I claimed I didn’t make them
Or shut the fuck up.
As you have been asked before, please tell us anything, ANYTHING, that you disagree with Israeli policy on. You have a history on this site of defending absolutely anything the Israeli authorities or military does, no matter how grotesque. You may not like it but you are a fully signed up member of the “Israel can do no wrong brigade”.
For the record, that warning was my first ever since I signed up in 1999. First in over a decade.
What specifics did I miss out? I support the policy of putting previously locked-up in concentration camps Jews in temporary housing - which includes said camps - until something can be done with them. Similar things go on today, with camps in countries where they process asylum seekers. All that is controversial is that it was the camps they had been kept in under the Nazi regime. That is unfortunate but as I said, there was no realistic chance of finding any other housing. Additionally, the fact that there were camps wasn’t the fucking problem under the Nazis. It was what the Nazis did to the people in those camps. The mistreatment, murder, experimentation and whatnot. Are you going to start claiming the British did that too? Frankly I wouldn’t put it past you.
Again, tell me where I have lied. It has now become “lies in GD”, so point me to the exact post in GD where I lied. Point out why it was a lie.
Or shut the fuck up.
I made a single comment and then left it. I’ve expanded it upon it here as clearly you are too thick to understand it (or what a lie actually is).
You see, two can play at this game. Reading what you have written anyone would get the impression that the Jews were kept in the very places they had been kept as prisoners. According to a bit of research on the web (including Wikipedia, they very mention of which will probably make you call me a liar, an idiot or both) they were kept in the barracks previously used by German Panzar divisions.
The camp including such evil things as a hospital and schools. There was even a religious school, showing that attempts were not made to stop the Jewish faith. There was even a newspaper.
In other words, this was nothing like the old Bergen-Belsen prison camp, no matter how much your own prejudices wish it was.
As I have said before, the camp was equivalent to modern camps for Asylum seekers and/or illegal immigrants. I await your anger in a thread here where you come out against the armed guards and measures to prevent escape and entry in those as well.
I’ve asked it before and I’ll ask it again:
Exactly what were the British supposed to do with the 60,000 prisoners they found in the camp when they liberated it?
One final addition, as I have come back to edit this as for some reason parts got repeated in some kind of bizarre copy+paste accident:
You’ll probably hate this but frankly I don’t care. Every single person that was ever in those camps after the war should be thanking the British for every single thing they did. The United Kingdom was bankrupt after WW2. They could very easily have left those Jews to fend for themselves. Sick, malnourished and in a war zone in a country that wanted them dead. But instead they cared for them, nursed them back to health and protected them.
You’d think they’d be fucking thankful. To be honest, I bet they are. The problem is revisionist idiots like yourself. You are no different from the multitudes of Americans that have claimed that the US won WW2 as if no-one else took part. You’re a fucking jingoistic, revisionist fool with the intelligence and historical knowhow of a diseased foreskin.
