Now, this one is my fault. I didn’t make it clear. My post addresses more or less the general audience. I wasn’t actually talking to you, just spitballing for the general audience. Which is kinds dumb, because this Pit thread is about what a dickosaurus you are. Should have thought of that.
Should just be pleased that your application to the John Bolton School of Diplomacy was lost in the mail, otherwise Sweden would be at war with Belgium.
I kinda agreed in general with your proposition that Israel do something (not necessarily altering their national/religious symbol on their flag, which is just unrealistic) to be the first to extend the proverbial olive branch in some way to facilitate some resolution to this seemingly neverending bloodshed/despair/displacement/claims of righteousness, but your assigning these types of insults and slurs against Finn are the same tactics employed by both sides of the REAL issue at hand writ large.
I thought you better than that. At least pepper your discontent with your trademark sarcastic humor!
Ah, I see you’re going for your tactic of “I don’t give a fuck if it has anything to do with anything, I hate Israel and I’m going to link to any article I can find!” Good show red.
Ooooh, is this where we get to hear you (again) talk about how it’s really “the Jewish Lobby” and how Jews control US foreign policy? Because that’d be fun.
And what do ya know, you cited counterpunch. Shocka! For those reading along, Counterpunch is a magazine that routinely gives space to White Nationalist, Paul Craig Roberts, a high ranking member of the racist organization VDARE.
One of VDARE’s positions, for instance, is:
(Sound like any posters we know in this thread?)
In any case, Red, it’s telling your author, in spinning his conspiracy nonsense, suggests that you can only get a “non AIPAC vetted” story from folks like Walt and Meirsheimer, shown to be a pair of liars who routinely get the basic facts wrong, and Ilan Pappe, a self-admitted propagandist who doesn’t believe in truth but parrots the Palestinian narrative.
Of course, your nutty conspiracy theory fails where all of them do. You cite the lie that "You can’t have an Israeli policy other than what AIPAC gives you around here,” . Well, partisan-tool, *where is the US embassy in Israel? * They’re all powerful, right? Or can it be that you and yours are full of shit?
Your cite also has such racist gems as:
Ha hah, what a knee slapper.
While you’re at it, it’d be nice to find the actual primary source for that alleged quote. Or, while you’re at it, you can retract your earlier lie that 90% of land in Palestine was owned by Palestinians. Or, failing that, become the single most famous historian in the history of the Middle East by shattering what everybody else knows about it and showing them that roughly 500 years worth of understanding on Ottoman land codes which were upheld by the Jordanians are false. You may even get a professorship out of it.
Yeah yeah. This is the pit. If FinnAgainAndAgain’s insanity hasn’t slapped you across the face like a shortchanged pimp, you’re an idiot. I also don’t care if you’re an idiot or not, because you don’t add anything worthwhile that I’ve seen; you’re just another interchangeable blah in a long line of blah.
Again, this is the pit. Fuck your reasoned debate. Fuck your smarmy “I’m just in it for the facts”. Start a GD thread, or go back and read the last 200 threads that are nothing but Finny calling people names and making logical errors. Christ, the boy hasn’t posted anything new for like 7 years, though I can’t fault you for not slogging through the literally thousands of posts he’s made on this issue calling people stupid or liars.
Shut up, and take FinnAgain&A&A&A&A&A&A’s cock out of your mouth – he’s a fat nerd whose poly girlfriend dumped him a long time back, and he’s spent the last 6 years or so trying to make up for it by being tedious and obsessed.
Go find somewhere else to try and make yourself out to be some sort of reasonable interested reader – no one gives a shit, and the only people reading this thread on page fucking 14 are here to make fun of Finny or are obsessive scary losers who can’t stand not to be seen the winner.
Go home, kid. You’re out of your fucking depth here.
QFT
OK moron. Your sheer insanity and abject inability to have reasoned debate with your caveat that “Bbbbut this is the PIT! Go home, loser” is duly noted.
Good show. True colors exposed and all that. I’ve got thick enough skin. I know this is the Pit, you fucking ape. The fact that you cannot separate your ability to blather on about your hatred-infused posts and actually engaging in something resembling a semblance of factual discussion is also duly noted.
So, call me whatever names you must, especially all the undeserved ones just because the stupid forum we’re posting in allows it, it doesn’t make it necessary. That you stoop to its levels of allowability shows your childish nature. Good job man! Keep on keeping on! Fight the good fight against me, someone that actually doesn’t share Finn’s positions en toto and just likes to ask questions and read! Good show!
Well, that was inspired. I’m sorry, I didn’t actually catch your point; I keep falling asleep while reading your post.
FGIE: seriously, Ivn is a troll, who’s obsessed with me. That’s it. That’s’ all. You can feed him if you really want, but then again, you can also cut off your own toes with a can opener.
The problem, of course, is that Lucy knows full well that Israel has done so, many times. He knows this because I’ve pointed it out to him before when he’s made this ‘honest mistake’. A mistake that, gosh darn, no matter how many times it’s debunked just keeps getting repeated. Fancy that!
He’s pretending to be ignorant of it to sell his agenda which is “friendly” to Israel. After quite so many olive branches, it begins to become more than, shall we say, an honest mistake that Lucy can’t remember any of them and demands that we start all over again. It’s always “Sure, Israel offered the Palestinians 97% of their territorial demands and full sovereignty and Arafat responded by launching a war against Israel and when they stopped that war Hamas was elected and declared all treaties null and void and that they’d wipe Israel out. And, sure Israel pulled all of its settlers out of Gaza and was met with rocket and mortar fire, but honestly, it’s about time Israel made some steps towards peace. Because I’m a big friend of Isreal, anything at all.”
He’s still trying to square his conspiracy theorizing about how we should expect a certain amount of Traitor Jews due to their “loyalty on religious or ethnic grounds”, who’re acting just like spies for Soviet Russia.
That’s why he later tried to argue that he really meant that “The Jewishitude of the person doesn’t enter in to it, its merely one of many such possibilities.”
It’s funny how fast something can go from being based on “religious or ethnic grounds” to it being something that doesn’t enter into it at all.
Honestly, I wish Lucy would just play straight here. Every single racist I’ve ever seen, from David Duke to the recently banned Mister Obvious, deny they’re racists, often while talking about how you can’t trust Jews and some of them are going to be led into treason by their religion/ethnicity. Hell, even Ivan is denying that he’s a racist because some people are more hateful than he is. Once, just once I want a racist to not only explain his racism rather than dodge it, but also explain this weird urge to talk about how the Jews are an untrustworthy foreign body living in our homeland who must carefully be watched for treason, but at the same time they want to deny they’re racists.
I don’t get that. I’d like to hear from a racist why they aren’t afraid to say racist things but are afraid to then be labeled as a racist for saying them. Makes no sense to me.
Too bad. You can go away any time you like, and I’ll point out the massive flaws in your arguments as long as I see them. Speaking of which:
-have you retracted your nonsense that I was wrong about the 4th Geneva Convention or twisting its words, especially when I quoted them in black and white showing exactly what I said they did?
-have you retracted your dishonest dodge that despite Carter’s pattern of agenda-driven lies, all of which demonize Israel and absolve the Palestinians, it is wrong to claim that evinced the fact that he is bigoted against Israel?
-have you retracted your bullshit evasion that philanthropists can’t be prejudiced? Perhaps apologized for your disingenuous trap whereby you knew any example of a philanthropist who was also a bigot would allow you to feign moral outrage that someone would dare point out a prejudiced philanthropist, thereby saying that Carter was exactly the same?
-along the same lines, have you, perhaps, gotten enough integrity to actually look at Carter’s lies, see that they are all driven by the same agenda, apologize for clowning around and instead of supporting him, tell spoke that it’s awfully shitty behavior to try to change the subject when someone you’re supportable as a factual source is shown to be an agenda-driven liar?
-perhaps you’ve even had a bit of intellectual honesty come upon you, and you’d like to tell us all of another philanthropist who was also prejudiced, and why it’s wrong, dishonest, and lacking in basic intellectual integrity to claim that any example debunking the claim that philanthropists can’t be prejudiced must be a slur any philanthropist being so defended?
Just curious.
FinnA&A&A&A&A&A&A: I thought we were done with your walls of text about the middle east. Let’s talk about your earliest SD posts (which I can’t link to for some reason), where you explain to everyone how sad and pathetic (and chubby) you were – you know, the posts where you are crying about your girlfriend wanting some other guy’s dick, but she was stringing you along to keep the benefits coming? The ones where you asked for advice? The ones where you were all broken up because you were afraid you’d never meet another girl (which was true, oddly enough)?
You can keep calling me a troll and posting cites from wikipedia and pro-Israel media, that’s fine. But let’s have a discussion about your personal life that you brought up so long ago. Surely you aren’t embarrassed?
I missed this earlier, but really, it does speak volumes. Not just the fact that Ivy thinks that Smashy was more than a pretentious idiot with delusions of adequacy, but that he wishes that there were more losers like Smashy to display that rare combination of ignorance, arrogance, stupidity, over-credulousness and woo-salesmanship.
It all reminds me of a joke told by Winston Churchill. He was at a party, three sheets to the wind, and a woman walked up to him and scolded him by saying “Why Mr. Churchill, you’re drunk!” His response was “Yes ma’am, and you are ugly. But I will be sober in the morning.” I know that, in the morning, I’ll have a new day but Ivy will still be a pompous idiot who gets his kicks and tries to boost himself up by trolling on an internet message board and trying to make people feel bad.
I’d feel sad for him if he didn’t remind me of a rabid rodent.
It’s kind hard to feel pity for an enraged, diseased rat.
I’m sorry, but even if there’s any truth to this assertion of FinnAgain having a past relationship crisis (and I have no fucking idea if there is/was and don’t really care) and asking advice on that particular subject, how does that have any bearing on this other particular subject again, exactly?
So Israel is a Jewish homeland, and that’s not racist at all, and yet only a racist would suggest that Jews might have a special interest in the place.
Nope. No logical inconsistency there at all.
The problem as I see it is that the “blaze” in what is after all an ethnic conflict is “fanned” by overheated rhetoric on the part of outsiders who support one faction or the other - each side casting the other in the worst possible light.
The anti-Israeli side is by far the worse offender in this regard, as practically everything Israel does is met with cries of “genocide”, “apartheid state”, “ethnic cleansing”, etc. ad nauseum.
The problem is that, of course, many on the Israeli side are doing things that are genuinely injurious to peace, are ill-advised or immoral. But the facts tend to be crowded out by the noise; it is almost impossible for an outsider, unacquainted with the actual facts on the ground, to seperate out what is a real concern from what is trivial or simply invented by Israeli enemies. Worse, those who consistently criticise Israel don’t appear to care all that much.
This lends a certain “boy who cried wolf” tone to these sorts of debates. No doubt on occasion Israel can act the wolf - as can any nation, particularly any nation as consistently exposed to peril as Israel. The ability to recignize when it is doing this is not helped by the trend to exaggerate everything it does, however.
I actually agree with you on this. Israel’s “villainy” does get exaggerated for effect. But you need to recognize the flip side that some of Israel’s more vehement advocates aren’t really doing Israel’s cause any favors.
It is no different from any other form of ethno-nationalism, a thing that is not, alas, confined to Israel.
As I said upthread, I fully understand the desire for a Jewish homeland, as a place of refuge in the event of persecution. I sympathize with that desire.
But then why so quick to yell “racist” when we recognize that it is a Jewish homeland, and that some Jews might therefore feel a special attachment to the place?
You guys seem to be all angry at Finn because of the way he interacts as a poster; you don’t seem to have much to say against his actual facts or arguments, merely that he makes them at length and lards them with accusations of dishonesty and prejudice.
On the facts, he’s got a good grasp of historical detail; he’s well read in the history of the region. His posting style may not be as entertaining as Luci but he knows his stuff on this subject better, and he’s always willing to explore the sources.
Whatever the faults of Finn in terms of Internet diplomacy, at least so far he isn’t publishing books like Jimmy Carter. I can’t think off the top of any really prominent public supporter of Israel who has consistently engaged in such an error-ridden polemical campaign as prominent Israeli detractors such as Carter.
Sort of the point of this thread. The guy is a jackass. I question the value in defending him just because he’s your jackass. Maybe instead of showing solidarity with Finn despite his excesses it would help the tome of the conversation if you occasionally called him out on those excesses.
Sure we do, it just gets filtered out by the likes of him. And you.
From one particular, blinkered perspective, yes. Any others are the products of liars and bigots, though.
Because of the singularity of notice.
While ethno-nationalism is common, historically only certain nationalities are singled out for accusations of “dual loyalty” based on it, almost always because of widespread ethnic prejuduce - not because of any real importance of said loyalties.
An example: in WW2, the US went to war with both Germany anf Japan, both nations with a strong sense of ethno-nationalism. However, only one group of American citizens was subject to widespread accusations of dual loyalty, eventually ending in their internment en mass - the Japanese-Americans. This, in spite of the fact that it was widely known that many German-Americans favoured Germany - see: German American Bund - Wikipedia
Why were Japanese-Americans accused of “dual loyalty” and interned, and German-Americans … not? The resaon isn’t hard to seek: most Americans considered Americans of German ancestry “like them” to the extent that it would have aroused widespread protest to intern Americans of German ancestry - they were so well integrated that the very notion was impossible. So Americans of Japanese ancestry got treated with greater harshness, because they were, as a group, not really considered fully “American”. Some German-Americans may have had “dual loyalties”, but their American-ness as a group overrode that possibility.
In short, the Japanese-Americans were singled out because the overall racism of the time allowed them to be.
You ask why Jewish-Americans object (to the point of saying it is ‘racist’) to being singled out for “dual loyatles” because the ethno-nationalism of the Jewish state opens up that possibilty. Really, what Jewish-Americans want, is to be treated like any other American (or Canadian or whatever - Canada has its own sad history in WW1, of interning Ukranians). Sure, some German-Americans may have dual loyalties, as may some Japanese-Americans, some Ukranian-Americans, and even some Jewish-Americans.
What is objectionable is singling out Jewish-Americans for special notice based on the possibility of alleged “dual loyalties”. This feeds into the historic narrative of Jews as the “outsider” to Western, Christian culture, a people who are not “like us”.