For people getting divorced - Some practical things you need to know about divorce in the US

In My Humble Opinion
1

For whatever confluence of reasons I have been approached by 3 people over the past few months (all men in this case), including a close relative, who are in the middle of fighting with their soon to be ex’s over their divorces. I have been stunned by their lack of understanding about what is actually going on, but in retrospect I was in the same place when I got divorced in 1996.

I’m not holding myself out as an expert on divorce, I simply went through it in the state of Maryland and it appears most state divorce laws are similar enough this information may be of some use. If you want to offer corrections or additions feel free.

Realization 1 - Unless you are relatively well off with lots of assets 90%+ of your divorce settlement, child support and other issues will be dictated by formulas defined in state law. The other sides attorney can make a gazillion claims for alimony, custody etc., but in the end if it gets before a Judge he’s normally simply going to go by allocation formulas defined by the state and that will be that. You can look these up on the web and if you have handle on your assets and finances a half hour with a pocket calculator will tell pretty much where you are going to be post divorce.

Realization 2: A lot of people who file for divorce don’t seem to realize that if you are in a middle income demographic getting an expensive, bulldog attorney to punish your soon to be ex with a big Kabuki dance of threats is going to result in a bill for tens of thousands of dollars that they (the filing party) will have to pay post divorce. Demanding that your ex pay your legal bills is not always winning strategy and the filer often finds themselves responsible for a huge bill that impoverishes them for years.

The bottom line here is that there is generally only “X” dollars in a middle class household and post divorce it is probable there will be less as you have two households. Burning up cash on super aggressive attorneys for a household with middle class (or even upper middle class) level of assets is not a always prudent move.

Realization 3: Alimony is often asked for but not easily granted, and when granted is granted for short periods to allow the non-working spouse to “re-habilitate” themselves to working.

Realization 4: Fighting over custody if your children are 14 years old or older is a gigantic waste for time. You can make all the plans in the world but in very short order teenagers will decide who they want to live with and that will be that. If a child is 14 to 15 or older the court will usually go along with where the teenager wants to live.

Realization 5: If you have kids together you are going to be joined at the hip by your kids for decades. Regardless of how righteous you feel burning the village and salting the earth by disparaging your ex to your kids and friends may feel good in the short term, but is generally hugely counter-productive as you will eventually have to cooperate with them on a wide range of issues involving the kids for decades and even into grandparent-hood. If you are the one playing hardball with comments you run the risk of the rest of the family shutting you out so they can get on with their lives and relationships.

Realization 6: No one really wants to hear you moan and groan at length about what a bitch or bastard your soon to be ex is. They will be polite but listening to this nonsense is tiresome. Keep it to a low roar.

2

All very good advice, and I agree with everything. I’m going through a divorce here in Ontario. The only thing that appears to differ is that my alimony payments are for life.

3

I tend to agree with this, though I thankfully did not have to deal with child issues.

Asimovian
California, Divorce Class of 2010

4

Realization 7: Even if you don’t have kids or property together, you will still be connected to your ex whether you want to be or not. At some point, you may be contacted by a debt collector or process server because you come up in a database search. Again, don’t badmouth your ex and before you agree to anything (e.g. paying a debt for them or accepting process or whatever), talk to a lawyer about the legal consequences to you.

5

Divorce is actually a case where “Mo’ money, mo’ problems” is unambiguously true. I’m glad I had nothing when I got divorced. Falling is less painful when you’re already on the ground.

6

Yep divorce = she gets chicken to eat, you get feathers. 50/50 they call it.

7

6a. Complaints about your ex make you look like a idiot. Sure, they’re an asshole. They’re a liar and a cheat and they eat crackers in bed. You were the idiot who picked 'em.

Trust me, every one of your friends either thinks you’re the asshole or you’re the idiot who put up with the asshole. Best not to drive the point home too much. Learn to laugh at yourself and get on with life. You loved that person once, and chances are very good that neither of you are as guilty *or *as innocent as you’d like to think.

Quintupply so if you have kids together. A person can make a very poor spouse and still be a decent parent. Don’t spend so much time hung up on the poor spouse thing that you undermine them being a decent parent. Don’t you want your kids to have as many decent parents as possible? If not, the problem is not with the other parent, it’s with you. Don’t be a dick to your kids’ parent.

8

My divorce in Illinois was directed entirely by the settlement agreement we both signed. The only thing the Judge did was bang the gavel and declare it legal.

9

How so? Soon as my oldest turned 18, her decisions were her own to make and it’s her job to handle her mother’s demands as she sees fit. I don’t consult the ex about anything having to do with my oldest. Oldest comes home from school, it’s her decision about who she wants to stay with - all she needs to do is let me know what she’s thinking because I hate last minute surprises.

My youngest is 16 and in two years time I expect that any communications that remain between my ex and me will be reduced to nil.

If and when grand kids arrive, my kids will have to make the holiday/visit plans they want to make with whichever parent they want to spend time with. My door is always open to either/both. They know that. I will not put pressure on them to be with me on any specific occassion. As such, I won’t have to negotiate about squat with my ex.

10

In some families if the bad blood is too extreme it makes things like having both parents attend kids and grandkids graduations, birthdays and weddings etc. very difficult. Also sometimes if there are grandkids having both grandparents over for holidays is possible if they get along and not possible if they don’t. Sometimes if the kids need help with loans for college or starting out if the parents can both help cooperatively it makes things easier. Being cooperative and able to talk and interact with your ex in those scenarios makes them easier to work out.

11

They need not be. If you’d like more details, PM me.

12

Any kind of issues with visitation are equally moot after about age 12. If a child that age doesn’t want to see their NCP in my state, they don’t have to, and there is nothing any court can do about it.

BTW, if the kids don’t want to see their NCP, there are usually some very good reasons. This wish MUST be investigated and respected, even in preschoolers.

13

That’s what you think. Very common example: What about when the kids (or grandkids, for that matter) get married and you know your ex, or his/her partner, will make an ugly scene if you show up? Or graduations, birthday parties, or other events?

14

Addressing #6: when you get back into the dating game, this goes double when discussing your ex with someone that you’re going out with.

If I hear a man trashing his ex, especially if they have kids together, before we’re serious, I think way less of him. Those losers are in no way ready to move on with their lives.

15

I’m a big fan of the Adam Carolla & Dr. Drew podcast, and Dr. Drew recently did a documentary about the whole divorce ‘industry’ called Divorce Corp. And that’s really what it has become. They have a whole section of the legal system that is independent of everything else: Their own courts, lawyers, judges etc. And it’s all very self-serving, money-grubbing, ugly and scary.

16

I knew a woman who, when a divorced man asked her out on a date, asked to meet his ex-wife first (this was back c. 1957). If the first wife’s complaints were things she didn’t consider acceptable, no dates. The first wife’s complaints were both reasonable and for things that this other woman could deal with, so there were dates and eventual marriage.

In that case, the two women hadn’t previously known each other, but if you’re dating in the area where your ex lives, there’s a certain probability that the two will have met.

17

It’s tough to do all that when your ex basically cheated on you and walked out.

18

Just say irreconcilable differences. :smiley:

19

Also, from straight female perspective, if a woman says that the divorce was entirely his fault, you know darned well it wasn’t. There are, however, no circumstances where it is acceptable to disagree with her about this.

20

Exercise extreme caution when choosing an attorney. Repeat, extreme caution. To emphasize my point even more, I will repeat myself in bold and italics. ***When choosing an attorney, exercise extreme caution. ***

Two things to watch out for:

  1. Not giving you practical advice during your consultation. Some attorneys will tell you that they cannot answer your questions without knowing more facts about your assets and family situation. Therefore, you need to provide them with documents and fill out a Statement of Net Worth, and after $$$ billable hours later, they will tell you how to resolve your issues. Do not fall for this. If they cannot give you practical advice at the first consultation, find someone else.

  2. Not responding to your instructions. Believe it or not, asshole lawyers will do this. They will spend two hours at $400 per hour doing something you did not tell them to do because it’s what is “normally done” and they have been doing this for X years and know better than you. If you ask them do something else, you’ll be charged $800 for their work and $800 again for the new work. If you’re calling your attorney to argue about what they’ve done (which call you’ll be charged for) then you need to find someone else.

I would find an attorney based on recommendations from other clients. If anyone spent more than $10K on someone and was satisfied with their work, then you should give them a shot. Ask them to come up with resolutions to your issues at the consultation. If they do not give you good advice, go with someone else. If they only suggest solutions that increase billable hours, or do not respond to your concerns, then go with someone else.

If a shitty attorney has been in business for over 10 years, that means they are good at sucking money out of clients and getting away with it. Be aware that if you turn over a retainer to an attorney, you’ll lose a few grands before you get it back. Be careful.