This thread is beyond the scope of my comprehension, so before I say anything I’ll regret, I think I’ll slowly step away… :dubious:
If he is the one, why do you feel you need to date other people?
Because some people are just built that way, Xan. It’s what seems good and natural and right for them, the same way focusing all of one’s romantic love on one person feels good and natural and right for me and presumably you. I don’t even pretend to “get” polyamory–it’s too foreign to my nature. But I can at least understand it on an intellectual sort of level, the same way I can understand being a stay at home mom, or a Republican, or not having pets. Those are all totally wrong for me, but that doesn’t mean they’re wrong for everybody.
I am very fascinated. Please, carry on.
I am seldom at a lack for followup questions, but this may be an exception. However, let me try anyway:
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What do you think you would do if he said something to the effect of “Look, I’ve thought this over for a long time and our lifestyle has been fun especially for me, but I don’t want to share you anymore I want you exclusively to myself from now on.”
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How many other people over the years have you met in this lifestyle. Did you ever talk to your dad to discern how he gained his perspectives on this life? How about your orignal mother, and step-mother how did they feel about this develoment?
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Is there a geographic correlation to this lifestyle. Perhaps in the same way that biscuits and gravy are big around here in Indiana, but if you go to New York and order B&G they will probably think you are nuts.
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How would you react if your son or daughter announced this as their intended lifestyle? Are there any common religions that would consider this acceptible (I would think that the Unitarians/ Universalists might for example).
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Why do you think that your Mr. would be overwhelmed by seeing you intimate with someone else (I understand that he does feel this way, I’m just curious why). I’m trying to juxtapose this perspective with my own where seeing my wife having sex with another man/woman wouldn’t bother me (provided it’s an agreed upon thing), but seeing her leave for a date with someone else would probably leave me in a grand funk of insecurity, self doubt, and depression. For me it’s not her having sex with someone else that would make me jealous, but seeing (or knowing) that she was INTIMATE with them that would be key (I’m not sure why and this bothers me).
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If God “snapped his cosmic fingers” and this was suddenly the “norm” what do you think would happen to the divorce rate? Do you think it would go up, down, or stay the same? Do you think guys would be more willing to get married at a younger age? Are there any nations (ancient Greece/Rome doesn’t count) where this is a common arrangement?
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What if someone wanted to have a “relationship” with you without sex would that be an option? Do you think many in this lifestyle would feel that way.
I can only imagine that my shock and dismay would be similar to someone in a monogomous marriage who found out her husband wanted or were seeing other women. It would be such a change from his personality and goals that I would be quite taken aback, and rather appalled. I would feel betrayed and mislead and quite confused. Then, we would talk and try to get a handle on why and where these feelings came from. If I thought it was symptomatic of a larger problem, I’d request marital counseling to discover the underlying issue. The results of all that would determine whether or not I would remain in the relationship under those new terms or not.
I personally know about half a dozen other open married couples. My dad and I don’t talk about a lot of things, he’s a very private guy, and both of us hate telephones. I emailed with him several times with questions and thoughts and ramblings, and he replied as best he could. I’m actually closer in that sense with my stepmother, and we emailed frequently and she shared much wisdom and insight and advice for a young woman exploring polyamory and open marriage. My own mother is not and was not interested in such things for herself. My father proposed a group marriage with her and my stepmother when I was 6, and it led to a divorce. Whether or not they shared an open marriage before that depends on whether you talk to my mom or my dad. Which, essentially, means they probably did not, and he was unfaithful, rationalizations aside. My mom does know that my husband and I have an open marriage, and emotionally disapproves, but intellectually knows that there’s nothing she can do about it, and to tsk at me would only drive me away.
I don’t know.
I would give him or her a good lecture on emotional responsibility, communication and safer sex. Then I would consider it none of my business unless they wanted to discuss it further. I would welcome any partners they brought home, male or female, singular or plural, as long as everyone was respectful and everyone knew what was up. If I had reason to believe that someone was being coerced or misled, there would be hell to pay.
I’m a neopagan, and there do seem to be a higher percentage that are at least open about being in open relationships. But I have no data to support that, just a general feeling. And, as I said before, I suspect there’s more “normal” folks out there pretending to be monogomous who have private arrangements. So I’m not sure how one would even collect such data.
The UU’s don’t, as far as I know, endorse open marriage as an institution, but they do often seem to be quite welcoming of various people and ways of doing things.
I don’t know. He thinks that a large part of it is because he’s basically a very conservative guy, who absorbed a huge lot of the Catholic guilt his parents brought him up with. He uses a lot of phrases like “disrespect” to refer to my kissing others in front of him that I’m not all that comfortable with and in fact totally disagree with. But we’re working on it.
No idea.
I have lots of loving and cherishing relationships with both men and women that I don’t sleep with. I call them “friends.” They far outnumber the number of people I’ve slept with.
Good Answer !
When you and your husband seek outside partners… what are you looking initially ? When you keep a steady outside ?
How much is it “lust”… how much is “curiosity”… how much is “variety” ? Other ?
I think this question has been covered up to a point… but I want to focus on it. I certainly would think this would be about lust, curiosity and variety.
Before you found your life mate… did you have “open relationships” ? Or was a stable partner necessary first ? How long did your relationships last before ?
I’m not married, but I’ve been in an open relationship for 2 1/2 years. As far as feasibility is concerned, it really isn’t a problem since he lives multiple states away from me. So there’s no walking in on each other. Although I think we would continue to have an open relationship if we lived together, our being apart makes it MUCH easier.
How did it come about? Well, our relationship started with many online conversations (although we did know each other IRL) and we tended to flirt a lot, including talking about each of us with other people (before we were “together”). Then once we were in a relationship - a state which took quite a while to develop since really we got together just for sex originially - talking about other people just continued. It wasn’t totally something we expected to actually occur. But then I met a guy to whom I was extremely physically attracted but whom I had no interest in having a relationship with. I talked to my bf about this very openly and he was very laid back about it and basically said to go for it if the opportunity arose. It did and it was great. I did talk about it with my bf both before and after. Which kind of answers a couple of the other questions mentioned: we do talk to each other about our experiences and we do not have to both have opportunities at the same time. He has not been with another girl - from lack of opportunity not from lack of desire or from any hindrance on my part - since we’ve been together but he has had some interaction with another guy. (Which I think is FANTASTIC.) I have only been with one other guy.
I think if we got married, we would continue to have an open relationship. Neither of us are really suited to monogamy. Before this, yes, I was faithful to all previous boyfriends. But I guess I think that I would be much more able to stay with one guy if I knew I would have the opportunity to be with other guys outside of the primary relationship. My bf and I share a wonderful, warm, caring relationship and there are things we have with each other that I haven’t had with anyone in the past. But the thought of ONLY being with him forever does not work for me. I would not be able to marry him if I thought that would be one of the requirements. Nor do I think he would want to marry me if that were one of my conditions. This is part (but only part) of what makes us good together.
Finding other people is hard though. The guy I mentioned above who I was involved with for a while recently got a girlfriend and is no longer available for casual hook-ups. I am quite sorry to see him go because he understood what was going on, he was accepting of it (actually he rather enjoyed knowing I was there when he wanted sex but I wouldn’t be looking for a relationship with him… it gave us both a lot of freedom), and we had incredible chemistry. I am not out actively looking for someone new. That’s just not who I am. I’ve never been one to go looking for relationships in general. But if someone new comes along, I know my bf would be supportive. (Assuming new guy understood and accepted the rules of course.)
We too have an “always use a condom” rule for any interaction outside the relationship. (And most of the time in the relationship because I’m totally afraid hormonal birth control alone is insufficient.)
It’s not for everyone, but I’m awfully glad I found someone who is into an open relationship too.
Oh and btw, I am not “out” IRL. Only one of my friends knows I am in an open relationship… a second person may have an idea that I am, but we haven’t really talked about it.
So if any SDMBers happen to meet my parents or co-workers or anything like that, please don’t tell them!
I’d say it’s 42% lust, 13.2% curiousity and…no. It really doesn’t work like that. It’s really the same as when I was dating people via serial monogomy. I’ve almost always been “friends first,” - that’s just how I’m made. If there’s a spark, there’s a spark, but there has to be a friendship for anything else to happen. Some guys I feel that spark for 'cause they’re smart, interesting and funny, others 'cause they’re hot! I’m sure whatever reason you’ve found a woman or man attractive in your history of dating, I’ve found someone attractive for the same reason.
My primary motivation for sleeping with someone is because I feel some sort of emotional connection with them that eventually leads to physical expression.
While I’ve tried to leave my religious life out of this discussion for the most point (because I feel it mostly irrellevant), there is one other case, which is never the sole reason I am with someone, but often one of the reasons: because I feel one of us has a life lesson to share with the other. I do believe that there are things that spur our evolution as spiritual beings, and that we as people need one another to help out with our lessons. Some of those lessons for me this lifetime have been best taught by (and to) lovers. Things about respect and trust, both emotional and physical. Things about finding beauty and power in all people, not just those society’s images tell us are beautiful and powerful. And that’s all I’ll say about that.
This was the first open relationship I’ve had. I’d mostly been a serial monogomist, with one regretable exception in college (well, repeatedly regretable, but with the same partner). I’ve also had a pattern of dating for relatively long periods of time, at least for a young American girl - generally two years or more.
high school - 2 years. Monogomous, as far as I know. He ended up being gay.
sperm donor - 3.5 years. Nominally monogomous, but he cheated on me. I broke off the engagement for reasons unrelated to the infidelity.
college - 3 years. He was technically faithful, but left me for his best friend (a woman). I do believe him that he hadn’t slept with her, though. I cheated on him, I’m ashamed to say. With a “soul mate” who I was on again off again with for 3 years while he was lying and seeing other people. College was a messy, messy time. There’s quite a bit of overlap with these years, I’m sorry to say.
post-college - 1 year. Engaged. Gay. End of story.
post-college - 2 years. Monogomous, to the best of my knowledge. He broke up with me because I had a nightmare about a good (male) friend being run over by a car and wanted to call him in the middle of the night to make sure he was OK. This was inappropriate, because I “belonged” to my fiance," and the phone call was the sign of a slut. Whatever. I made the phone call, he broke off the engagement. He actually left right then in the middle of the night and I never spoke with him again. I do not take ultimatums well! (The friend was OK, but en route to the hospital, so there you are.)
There were half a dozen shorter ones mixed in there somewhere. Three I was engaged to, but broke it off with 2, and the other, he broke off. None of the shorter ones were infidelitous, as far as I know.
Interesting point. I’m honest with anyone who asks, but it simply doesn’t occur to most people to ask. So I’m “out” with my circle of friends, so they’re not shocked and disturbed and think I’m cheating on WhyDad if I end up with one of them or bring some new guy around. The other parents in the PTA, the librarian and the plumber have no idea, I’m sure. 
I haven’t gone around telling my friends I’m in an open relationship, but I’m not hiding it from them either. Neither “out” nor “in”, I suppose. Except for one friend who I told after he thought I was flirting with another woman a bit too much for a married man, I’m nto sure if anyone knows. It simply hasn’t come up in casual conversation.
The hardest part of having an open relationship is finding people. Actually, it’s not a hardship - not that I can find people, but that I’m satisfied with my wife and not in any great desperation to find other woman to be with. I do know among my friends a few women who I would gladly become physically intimate with, but none who have shown any interest in me. It doesn’t help that I’ve never been very social, and am generally clueless with women. That, and my usual social events are science fiction conventions and robotics competition, neither of which are terribly conducive to meeting single women.
Why did we choose this relationship style (even if it does end up being mostly in theory)? Because it fits our personalities and how we see the world. I don’t claim that an open marrige is more enlightened, evolved, or better than a conventional one. For some people, it just works. Neither my wife nor I are the jealous type. It’s never bothered me that she’s had other men before me. She’s never been jealous of my female friends. I trust her to have good judgement in choosing relationships and protecting us. So where’s the harm?
As a guy, don’t a lot of the women you approach think you’re lying? Do you have your wife verify it? Do you carry some sort of Open Marriage Badge you flash?
I ask cuz…heh…we’ll I…::runs::
[QUOTE=archmichael]
As a guy, don’t a lot of the women you approach think you’re lying? Do you have your wife verify it? Do you carry some sort of Open Marriage Badge you flash?
[QUOTE]
I really have very little experience with approaching women. Totally clueless as to how to go about it. Usually I wait for them to show make the first move. I also prefer to be friends for a while first before the possibility of a relationship opens up - so anyone I’m getting involved with is already going to know my situation and most likely have met my wife already.
I just wanted to thank WhyNot for answering everything so well. She seems to be living the form of marriage that I would be most comfortable in.
I’m not married, but in an open relationship of my own, the most successful primary relationship in my life to date. I can’t really answer any of these questions any better than others have been doing, but I’m here.
For me, I have a single outside partner that predates my current primary relationship, and others that may come and go as I’m amused. Shirt Ninja 13 knows that I’d stop playing with any of them, have friendships without sex/cuddling/kissing/whatever if he wanted (and was willing to give up his option to do the same). So far, we are happier like this and don’t think denying ourselves that facet of relating with the outside world would strengthen our relationship or make us any happier. If that changes, we’ll reconsider, but we are happy with how things are.
I don’t really seek outside partners - I make friends and if those friendships express themselves in sexual activity, that’s okay. Its just an option that is available - along with watching movies, discussing philosophy, making really bad puns and other ‘friends’ activities. I assume the same for him, I don’t care overly much who he sleeps with while I’m otherwise occupied (work, school, etc.) as long as its safe and he is happy. We work out ground rules as we discover things that bother us - so far constant open honesty has taken care of the few issues that have had the possibility to cause problems.
Previous relationships for me have been mostly mono, some with problems about being “owned”, some with completely unrelated issues bringing them to a close. I am capable of being in a mono relationship - anyone who thinks they have an excuse for cheating is horribly mistaken - but I am happier poly.
With this post I am not making any judgments about Whynot or any of the other posters, who have shared their experiences and knowledge with us. It actually has been very informative and interesting. However, I have some experience on what happens when things don’t go smoothly.
I met this person briefly in high school and then we ended up attending a small college together. We joined the Marine Corps together and our senior year we were roommates. During this year, he told me that he would never marry anyone that didn’t agree to an open marriage. To say that he was good with the girls is a vast understatement. At one point, he told me that the wildest whore he knew would probably be his best bet for a wife, though this was not the type girl he usually went with.
We then went into the Marine Corps together. After about a year he started dating a stewardess with Delta. We were from Atlanta and would often drive home for the weekend. A couple of times, I went home alone and he offered for me to date his girl since I didn’t have anyone at the time (no sex involved). I did get to know her. Then they got engaged and I knew that meant that she knew the conditions. I also knew that she was overly impressed and was willing to agree to something that she had no idea of the consequences. At one point, I tried to tell him it was wrong, but he told me to butt out. I did. Then I met my wife and was sent to another station. We kept in touch over the years. He got a job with a company in NJ with a new product. Eventually, he became the Senior Vice President of a company that everyone has used (and fingered) their product. Twice I talked to her on the phone and she alluded to their arrangement and how their children didn’t approve. Then after more than twenty years of marriage they got a divorce. They waited for the kids to grow up but it was nasty nasty nasty. He and I are good friends still. He has remarried and I’m sure his new wife doesn’t go for any form of open marriage. I never really liked his first wife, but I sympathize with the fact that she thought she was willing to pay the price. She just couldn’t do it. 
[sup]Neither child has married[/sup]
As to the idea that an open marriage is upper or upper middle class, I would like to point out that in the booK CLASS it is stated that the closest two classes are the upper class and the upper lower class. According to that Whynot is not as out of sync as she may think.
Could you explain what you mean by saying that the upper lower classes, and upper classes are the closest? I find this to be fascinating since the CW would be that the upper middle class, lower upper class, and upper classes would be closest. Note, I’m not just talking about open marriages/Swinging ect. but am fascinated by the whole gamut of class differences especially as they relate to correlations between these classes that would seem to be seperated by a significant economic gulf.
Thanks kniz. I was wondering when someone in the know would post something not-so-rosey. It certainly happens, and it’s nice to hear an actual anecdote. (And all I can say about that friend of yours is anyone looking to marry “the wildest whore he knew” prob’ly deserves what he gets. But his kids don’t, and so I’m sorry for them.)
The worst crash and burn story I know is of a couple of dear friends of mine who (inspired by my marriage I feel rather guilty to say) decided to open up their previously monogomous relationship. I talked to them both at length about how I thought it was much harder to open up a closed relationship than start open from the beginning, about how communication was so very vital, and they both had to be clear that this was what they both wanted, not something one of them was going along with to make the other happy. These conversations were had with them one on one as well as together. They both assured me and each other that all was well.
Not long after that, she got pregnant - and didn’t know whose it was. And that’s when the shit hit the fan. Turned out that, after all, her boyfriend hated the fact that she was with other men. They hadn’t adequately discussed what to do if she got pregnant and she hadn’t even used a condom. She had wanted a baby for years and he didn’t, so he felt as if she had forced the whole thing onto him.
Her boyfriend was pissed at her for breaking all the rules and tests he’d set up in his head but not communicated with her. She was pissed at herself for being plain out stupid. (Heck,* I* was pissed at the two of them, because the whole thing brewed up a maelstrom of angry anti-polygamy talk and energy in our community.) Their wedding, scheduled for the next year, was hurridly moved up by her mother. They went into counseling, tried to figure out what was salvagable in their relationship, if anything. Privately, each told me they thought getting married was a bad idea. Neither would tell the other. Invitations went out, wedding dress was bought.
And a week later she lost the baby.
What a sick mixture of devastation and relief that was!
Ultimately, the process brought them to a point where they realized they better start communicating or just call it quits. They closed the relationship. (For now. They still occasionally remark about opening it up “someday” when the time is right for them.) They did get married, and have had a pretty good time of it so far. We’ll see how it goes.
So no, it’s not all hugs and puppies. It’s hard work being so bloody aware and conscious and communicative all the time. But for me, it’s worth it.
I’m going to use an analogy, that may cause some confusion. To get that out of the way, anyone who wears a uniform is considered Upper Lower Class. Something else to consider is the lower class thinks its money, the middle class thinks its money and education and the upper class thinks its style, manners, class, etc.
Now think of the military (thus the confusion about uniforms) and divide it this way.
[ul][li] enlisted personel = lower class[/li][li] officers below General = low middle thru upper middle class[/li][li] Generals = upper class[/ul][/li]
Privates of course are the low lower class and the Sargeant Major is the upper lower class. Ask anyone in the services, who the General doesn’t dare mess with. It’s not any bird Colonel, Major or Captain; its the Sargeant Major. The two of them have a certain type of bond, where they rarely have any social or personal dealings, but they are the two that really run things. The General says “do this” and the Sargeant major gets it done. In a private business it is the owner and the head foreman. In large corporations it gets murkie, but perhaps the CEO and the General Manager.
This basically sums up why I think open relationships are a positive step… I always felt that I was closing the door to new experiences when I was in a relationship. In fact I think I’d probably be quite monogamous within a poly relatioship… just knowing that I have a choice… would make me that much more comfortable and satisfied with my GF and her alone.
Another thing is overly jealous ex of mine… I basically stopped being friendly with other women near her. I caught myself “witholding” feelings of friendship… don’t even dare think sexual. I felt emotional stunted.