So if they’re so small, why doesn’t Netanyahu just throw them out of the coalition? For that matter, as I’ve asked you before, why haven’t they been charged with violating Israeli law against advocating genocide?
The answer to both questions is, of course, that without their support Netanyahu couldn’t remain in power.
So your position is that these politicians, whose support is absolutely crucial to the survival if the government, have no influence whatsoever on the policies of said government? Or that there is no problem with them having SOME influence, as long as they aren’t completely in control?
…just a reminder: the only reason I quoted Amichai Eliyahu was because it happened today. I didn’t have to go digging for a quote from a year and a half ago. It’s what state officials and others are saying right now. I literally jumped from this thread to my feed and this popped up right away. Tomorrow I’m sure it will be someone else saying something equally genocidal. You can’t dismiss them all.
From a couple of days ago:
Is it “symbolic?” Sure.
Is it a statement of intent? I’m pretty sure it is.
Israeli State officials and others are being pretty clear about what it is they want to do. I think we should take them at their word.
Yes, clearly any minute now Netanyahu will be voted out of office and sensible centrists will return to power.
There is no avoiding the conclusion that a large majority of Jewish Israelis are basically OK with genocide. The fantasy that this country can be saved and that liberal Zionism will someday return to relevance is only enabling the fascists at this point.
A couple hundred years from now, Jews will remember Zionism with embarrassment as one more stupid thing a lot of us fell for, along with Communism, Shabbatei Tzvi, and the Golden Calf. Until then, as always, we can only pray for forgiveness we do not deserve.
How about no ethnic cleansing, no genocide, no forced relocation, allow enough food into Gaza so no one starves, allow enough aid so no one can’t get basic health care, and no more atrocities by the IDF?
I am certainly interested in hearing more from actual current IDF members. It is still only a piece of the whole picture, but their experiences tell more about what is going on, directed genocide or not genocide, etc., than random opinions of people not involved in the conflict or in the know.
Criticism of the government of Israel or the IDF is not inherently antisemitism.
I’ll also point out, for the benefit of gentiles who aren’t fully conversant with the phrase and for you if you’ve forgotten, that “blood libel” is actually a pretty specific accusation. No one is accusing either the government of Israel or the IDF of draining the blood of anyone else for its use in religious rituals or in the baking of bread products intended to be consumed as part of a religious ritual. Which is what “blood libel” actually refers to - religion-based cannibalism and blood magic.
So please stop mis-using that term. People like @Banquet_Bear are accusing the government of Israel and the IDF of ethnic cleansing and genocide, not cannibalism, blood-drinking, or secret magic rituals.
Yeah, people throwing around “blood libel” incorrectly bothers me. Not that blood libel is inherently better or worse than genocide, just that I’d like to try to stay in at least the neighborhood of facts and truth.
If the Chair of House Committee on Armed Services spouted ethnic cleansing or genocidal shit like Smotrich or ben Gvir he would, at a minimum, lose his chairmanship, possibly all his committee postings. If he spouted the same shit that those two slimeballs do but replaced “Palestinian” with “Jew” even our current fascist-in-chief would call for them to be ousted and mobilize his base against him.
Here’s a game you can play - every time these jackasses say something anti-Palestinian replace “Palestinian” with “Jew” and then ask yourself how you feel about that. They’re Nazis in Jewish clothing looking for their version of a “Final Solution”. What the FUCK are they doing in the Israel government at all?
You are denying it exists despite the evidence. That’s not supporting it, not exactly, but it’s certainly not opposing it.
And the IDF ignores portions that apply to them, like if you take control of a hospital you are responsible for caring for the patients left in there. Instead, they walk away and leave the ill to die in their beds. Or, in the case of infants, in their incubators. Hand-waved by apologists who are not trusting of the sources but when the IDF has forbid journalists (on pain of execution) from doing their jobs you’re going to get random survivors as sources rather than “trustworthy” people, however defined, because you know those people are inherently untrustworthy liars. Sound familiar?
Just because the Jews were treated that way does not give them - any of them, no matter how small that group is - license to treat other people that way.
He’s way, way too heavily invested in Israel’s government and the IDF being the good guys. If his mental fortifications are ever breached I don’t know how he’s going to handle that.
I am glad that you, too, can see that.
Monsters and “ethnic cleansing prone maniacs” should not be in government at all, even as “leaders of very small parties”. They should not be a part of ruling coalitions. If they can not be immediately removed they should be marginalized as much as possible.
^ This.
Fascism does not, in fact, require a “large majority” or even a majority at all. I’ll just point out that those famous fascists the Nazis never had a majority in the German government prior to their coup and takeover. It’s only requires a sufficiently large minority with power and the willingness to use force and violence.
The fact that Israeli citizens who protest what’s going on in Gaza are beaten, jailed, called anti-Semitic, and so forth is proof that the current government is indeed willing to use force to enforce the party line. Which is getting to the point that it echoes the evil, genocidal racists of the US past who would said “the only good Indian is a dead Indian”. The IDF is certainly acting like the only good Gazan/Palestinian is a dead one. That sentiment was wrong in the past and it’s wrong today.
Honestly, I can’t figure out if you’re agreeing or disagreeing with me here.
Yes, equating a criticism of Israel with antisemitism is a Trump/MAGA tactic.
The weird thing here is that I’m pretty sure Babale is not a Trump supporter but he seems to also think criticizing Israel or the IDF is antisemitic, too. And also “blood libel”, that is, he’s saying people who criticize Israel and/or the IDF are accusing them of murdering people for the purpose of ritual cannibalism which absolutely no one is. I have no idea why he keeps bringing up such bullshit.
Nice try, BanquetBuddy - I see you’re, much like your heroes Hamas, trying to dictate terms. You can fuck right off with that. What I said I would dig up is the last time I rode this ridiculous merry go round with you, when I still thought there was a chance you were operating in good faith. Here you go:
Unlike Charlie Brown, I’m not dumb enough to take another kick at the football when we both know you’ll just goal shift away once again.
I don’t understand needing to hear from those committing the genocide instead of those being genocided. There is no shortage of testimony like this: (auto-translated by google, may have some inaccuracies)
That’s just from today. What you are looking for is out there.
But I’m not sure what you mean by “random opinions of people not involved in the conflict or in the know.” Are you talking about us? Because its a message board. What exactly were you expecting?
For the record: this was where I was originally accused of blood libel. You can scroll up for more context.
Just reading that thread makes me a bit ill. The siege, attacks on hospitals, forced displacements…its been like this from the start. It’s just people did not believe it. People still don’t believe it.
I mean, it isn’t, which they’re quite frustrated about and openly complain about it all the time on Israeli media. But alright.
Sure.
Without the support of any number of Likud members, or of Shas, or if any of a number of other players, Netanyahu couldn’t remain in power, either.
They absolutely have some level of influence over Netanyahu. There’s a vast gulf between that, and being in control. There’s a reason they didn’t even get to sit on the war cabinet. (Something that led to a lot of rage from Ben Gvir. It led to memes referencing Star Wars: What? How can you do this? This is outrageous! It’s unfair! How can you be on the council minister of national security and not be a master on the war cabinet?)
I’m sorry, but the hand wringing over Ben Gvir and Smotrich and their ilk betrays a deep ignorance of Israeli politics.
I didn’t say it was.
I’m not misusing the term. BanquetBear portrays a view of Israelis as bloodthirsty cartoonish villains who want to kill Palestinians simply for the sake of killing Palestinians. He isn’t simply criticizing Israel’s government.
[quote=“Thing.Fish, post:783, topic:1019962”]
71-13.
[/quote
Wow, I didn’t know that the Israeli Knesset has 84 members!
Interesting that they left off the 36 who boycotted the vote entirely because they disagreed with it so strongly.
I find it far more likely that anti-Zionist Jews of today will be remembered like the Anti-Zionist Jews of the past, such as the Bundists.
If the “Intifada” is “Globalized”, I think you’ll find that the old adage holds true:
A Zionist and a Bundist walk into a bar. The bartender says, “No Jews”.
But hey, maybe they really just mean “shaking off” when they say it. Sort of like the other guy just meant “struggle”.
As puzzlegal says: “it’s still not a very impressive haul.”
My response from that thread:
You can read further down the thread as we discuss this more. And…is that it?
Al Shifa? One hospital? What about all the other hospitals?
I haven’t shifted any goalposts. Your claim was “if you use a hospital as a military base of operations, it does in fact become a military targets.” So what about the attack on al-Ahli Arab Hospital on October the 14th? Why was it a military target?
Which, as noted earlier in this thread, is nonsense; that’s not what blood libel means. But it’s a profane antisemitic epithet, which is typical for Babale’s arguments.
@Banquet_Bear , I have quite sincerely appreciated your posts regarding this tragedy.
Sound familiar?