Alternatively, they either agree, or at least don’t disagree strongly enough to push back.
Clearly not “universally”; he got over 900,000 votes and 41% of the total vote.
We’re not talking about voters (keep on mind, conservatives had a choice between the total joke that is Sliwa, the no-longer-Democrat with some history of competence, and the Socialist; it’s no wonder many of them choice Cuomo); we are talking about the Democratic party. And despite this narrative that the Democratic establishment backed Cuomo over Mamdani, this is not actually true, unless the “Democratic Establishment” consists entirely of Tom Suozzi.
Oh, I see what you mean. Cuomo is a long-time member of the Democratic establishment, but I didn’t mean to imply that the official party leadership generally supported his recent antics.
Yes, it was, @MrDibble literally “bothsides-ed” the actual Nazis and the Weimar Republic in a post above
The fact that Weimar included the Nazis is, of course, not at all significant here… /s
Weren’t you just just lecturing me 3 posts ago about putting words in people’s mouths? Did that stop being a good idea?
And I’m sorry but in a world where “Genocide Kamala” existed and still exists as a catchphrase, it doesn’t really sound like there’s a lot lof nuance left to defend.
I’ve never heard of Genocide Kamala. Did you mean Genocide Joe, or perhaps Holocaust Harris?
Trump, of course, doesn’t get a snazzy nickname like that - he’s a “desperate gamble”. 
All sorts of epithets made the rounds. “Genocide Joe” and “Genocide Kamala” are what I’ve heard most.
One could make a case for Biden being an excessive enabler of Israel, as he was President during the time period in question, but Harris was VP and president of the Senate, it’s not as if she was instrumental to policymaking or anything like that. Just the typical brainless totalizing rhetoric we tend to see from that quarter.
I think you’re right on with this. The Right has totally whipped our butts in terms of remaining unified and focused on their central goals while NOT allowing petty differences to fragment their ranks. We’re the opposite: “Sorry, but I believe in 79 different genders and you will only acknowledge 32, so I’m afraid I can’t vote for you in the upcoming elections.”
I remember 2 years ago when the Palestinian coalition in this country made a big deal of not supporting Harris because we were and remained allies with Israel while she was the VP. So, they got Trump instead. Given the current state of the Middle East, how is that working out them?
Hey, in honor of Pride Month, can I offer you a hearty Go Fuck Yourself?
No shit, in weimar Germany there was a center-left party that was extremely lackluster in fighting nazis, there were actual nazis and there were far-leftists who thought forming a coalition with the center-left party was pointless and it didn’t really matter if the actual nazis came to power. Then the nazis and their conservative allies got enough votes to bring the nazis into power, laying bare the abject stupidity of this strategy.
Anyone with any grasp on reality realizes that a system where the nazis are a party that gets some votes and the rest of the political system isn’t doing enough to oppose them is denonstrably better than a system run by nazis.
Orange marmalade is delicious on toast, but did you know that it can be used on other bakery products? I’m especially partial to a bagel with a little cream cheese and some marmalade. An English muffin with marmalade also hits the spot.
Okay, your turn: you quote me again and respond with something that has nothing to do with what you quoted!
Sarcasm is quite different from a bad faith accusation.
I know it’s the Pit but it would be good to get though at least one post that isn’t bad faith and snark. Do you acknowledge that there can be many motivations for why some people didn’t vote democrat?
And honestly, I’ve never heard “Genocide Kamala”.
…didn’t vote for the Democrat.
For myself, I can absolutely acknowledge that; but I also think that impact is more important than motive. The means do not justify the ends. If someone didn’t vote for Harris, they effectively assisted Trump’s return to power, whether or not that was their motive. I’d like to encourage people to vote strategically.
The metaphor I like best is the trolley problem. We’ve got a trolley barreling toward an intersection, with a switch determining its path. The trolley’s gonna go down the left or right track, there’s no other option given the track layout. One track results in a lot of terrible shit happening, and the other track results in even more terrible shit happening.
A hundred million and change of us get to put our hands on the lever and push it toward one track or another, and it’s certain that a lot of people are pushing it toward the “even more terrible shit” track. Deciding to keep your hands off the lever is a boon to those people. Even if you keep your hands off the track while pointing to the nearby fields of sunflowers and puppies that we could visit instead, only there’s no track going there, is a boon to the “more terrible shit” people.
You put your hands on the lever or you don’t. Both are choices that affect the outcome.
In between elections? Absolutely build a track toward sunflowers and puppies. But on election day, put your freaking hands on the freaking lever.
Much of the far left actually thought it would be good for Hitler to get into power, because he’d create such a reaction against the Right that the far left would be able to sweep into power. That was their slogan; “After Hitler, us.” They died in the camps.
And yes, I did see some far left people advocate for Trump like that. And other people pointed out exactly what happened the last time the Left tried that with Nazis.
The thing about “fault” is that there’s always enough to go around.
Be the change you want to see in the world.
…owning more than one book on genocide doesn’t make you an authority. And we had the debate “about the term not being defined either too narrowly or too widely” a couple of years ago. Do you know what most Democrat voters think now?
“Democrats (77 - 11 percent) and independents (51 - 34 percent) think Israel is committing genocide”
77% of Dems think Israel is committing a genocide in Gaza. Only 11% think they aren’t.
You are part of a tiny minority of Democrats. You are the 11%. So why are you acting like you are not? What’s with the “fuck the leftist purists” when it really should be “what the fuck is wrong with you?”
Just a few days ago you were sarcastically and arrogantly dismissing what was happening in Gaza as “actual genocide”. You claimed incorrectly that “The UN reviewed the evidence and decided that no genocide was occurring in Gaza.”
The truth is you never even really knew what was going on until you started posting in that thread. But now we have your permission to elevate to “the existence of a serious risk of genocide.”
But we can’t trust the “3-person panel” just yet.
And we should ignore Ammnesty and HRW and the Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention and the Euro-Mediterranean Human Rights Monitor and Jewish Voice for Peace and American Near East Refugee Aid and Physicians for Human Rights–Israel and Doctors without Borders along with a broad consensus of genocide scholars because you haven’t had a chance to run it by your “analyst you have some familiarity with” yet.
I think the reason you and others do this, the refusal to accept that the first-ever live-streamed genocide where the people committing it literally tweeted out their intentions, is because if you do concede what it is, that would mean accepting that Biden and his administration were complicit in genocide. It would mean accepting that Harris and her administration was going to continue to be complicit.
The smug posturing and lecturing we get in threads like this, where people who were genuinely morally conflicted can be labelled “leftist purists” for not wanting to be like you. For not wanting to be forced to vote for monsters.
I’ve always argued that people should have voted for Harris. That between MAGA or Harris, the choice was clear. But it should never have come to this.
So when you reflect on the fact that the Dems who were complicit in genocide lost the house, the senate, the executive and the supremes for a generation, perhaps you should consider joining the 77% of Democrat supporters who think it’s a genocide and put pressure on your representative to do the right thing.
And perhaps stop being so smug about being on the wrong side of history.
This thread is a “fuck you” to the leftist purists. And that “fuck you” is largely based on a strawman version of what “leftist purists” were upset about.
So when they do that, it’s important to bring context to the table. Here’s an example of that.
This is complete and utter bullshit. This is the real “after-the-fact” rationalisation.
This was never about “punishment”.
This wasn’t because they “wouldn’t prioritise genocide”.
It was because they were complicit in genocide.
Do you not understand the difference?
Imagine if Biden were funding and supporting the Nazi regime and didn’t say a word about the concentration camps. Could you vote for that?
The complicity of the Biden administration and Harris’s pledge to continue it are the issues here, NOT the fact they didn’t “prioritise it”.
Genocide is bad. You can say that. The genocide of the Palestinian people is bad. It shouldn’t just be “leftist purists” who should be upset about the genocide the Biden administration funded and materially approved of.
@Thing.Fish , the reason why we keep coming back to this is because there are so many smug arseholes who refuse to think the genocide of the Palestinian people is a big deal. They can’t understand why people would be upset by this. They don’t understand why people would be genuinely conflicted. They don’t think that Biden and Harris were actually complicit.
It was never a strategy.
This was what groups like Uncommitted actually did:
https://www.npr.org/2024/09/19/g-s1-23736/uncommitted-movement-no-endorsement-harris-trump-2024
They wanted to be given a voice at the convention. They wanted Harris to speak to “Palestinian American families in Michigan who had lost loved ones in Gaza”.
This was a principled, nuanced stance. I think that refusing to endorse Harris when Harris was complicit in genocide is entirely understandable. But Harris and the Democrats made their choice. They were the ones with agency here. They chose not to give Uncommitted a voice. They chose to send Bill Clinton to Michigan. It wasn’t the “leftist purists” that were saying “fuck you”. It was the democratic establishment.
Almost every prominent “leftist purist” was saying either “hold your nose and vote for Harris” or refusing to endorse but saying, “Don’t vote third party and don’t vote for Trump.”
But you don’t have to be a “leftist purist” to be part of the 77% of Democrat voters that think Isreal is committing genocide in Gaza. That’s just most of the people that vote for the Dems. And it doesn’t need to be some grand “strategy” that caused people not to vote for Harris. Some people just decided not to vote.
And that’s the biggest issue here. It isn’t about Gaza. It’s about forgetting how to win elections. The Democrats lost the house, the senate, the executive and the supremes for a lifetime. That happened because the alt-right and the oligarchs have ownership and control over all of the social media outlets and media. Because they have invested in voter suppression. Because lies are easier to tell than the nuanced truth.
And the only real chance to defeat that isn’t to try and beat them at their own game. You’ve got to bring people along with you. You need to give people a reason to stand in line for eight hours. You need to have a super-strong ground game. You need the activist class on your side.
You have to give people something to vote for.
That was the real failing here. The Democrats have no clear vision. They don’t stand for anything apart from “Don’t vote for Trump”. There was absolutely zero self-reflection after the elections. Instead it’s just a double-down of the exact same failed strategy that lost them the house, the senate, the executive and the Supreme Court for a generation. Don’t mention the war. Don’t talk about trans people. Fund the police. Don’t call them weird. Just a lightning focus on the “centre-right” and the donor class. Don’t do anything to rock the boat.
That isn’t going to win you elections. Not against a well-funded and smoothly operating propaganda machine.